Charlie Coyle - Center or Wing?

[JudgeJimmie]

Hey everyone, there is a lot of discussion going on in various threads about whether or not Coyle is put to better use as a center or a wing, and I think it's a good discussion meriting its own thread! This is more related to full time use, ie Koivu and Parise are healthy. Currently Coyle has been playing really well at center in their absence, but keep in mind he has look not so good in the recent past!

Pros to being Center: Big body down the middle, improving our depth down the middle, ie Koivu, Granlund, Coyle, Brodz/Haula. Legitimate chance to develop three scoring 1B type lines. Could develop into an even better center if given playing time there.

Cons at Center: Has looked weaker at center compared to wing. Ruins the typical Top two scoring lines, checking line, whatever line type team structure (Not really a con, I think that is a pro). Makes us less deep at wing and rely's more on Fontaine/Zucker stepping up in a bigger way.

Line combos Coyle at Center (subject to change obviously)
Parise Koivu Fonz
Needles Granny Pommers
Zucker Coyle Heater
Cooke Brodz Mitchell

Pros to being wing: Gets to use big body to control puck along the boards. Wing play has been solid (although without points). Greater top 6 depth/size. Allows for a true checking line/physical line. Doesn't put Fonz/Zucker in the spotlight

Cons to being wing: Less development for Coyle as a center. Less spots for prospect wings like Zucker (since 3rd/4th lines are checking). Coyle hasn't produced points yet, so we have a low scoring new player on our top line.

Line Combo
Parise Koive Coyle
Needles Granny Pommy
Cooke Brodz Fonz (Maybe Zucker here and move Cooke/Fonz to 4th)
Vieux Haula Mitchell?

In the end I think we should leave Coyle at center and let him develop, and I think this is key. As we continue to grow as a team and get more "Top 6 quality guys" we are going to want them to play on a scoring line. Letting Coyle develop now into a quality center would be far more beneficial to this team than keeping him along as a wing. Heaven forbid we get Vanek and have to play Coyle/Needles on a wing with Brodz as a center.

However, this probably means we won't be trying to find another center this off-season, as that would mean we need to slot Coyle back at wing.

Anyway, what does everyone think, I know right now might be a bad time to post this because Coyle has looked awesome at center the past few games, but it is still a good discussion!

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[ThatGuy22]

I think long term the plan should try to make him our 3rd line Center on a hybrid scoring/shutdown line. But he's gotta improve his face-offs for that to happen. I think he's got the lowest potential offensive output out of all of our forward prospects, but has enough to be considered an elite 3rd line guy if he can nail down the center responsibilities.

I am more then content to let him ride out the season as 3C and see if he can learn the position. Attempt to determine if he has what it takes to be that guy long term, or if we need to do something about it in the offseason.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was hoping that they were going to leave him on the wing until they were certain about his footing in the NHL, then look into moving him into the middle after he had 2-3 full years of NHL experience (he'd then be 24-25 years old).

I also wanted them to do that with Granlund last year, so it's really just a personal philosophy of mine.

I do like the line combos with Coyle at center more, and assuming that Heatley leaves, it'll be easier to find his replacement on the "3rd line" at the wing position, than it would to replace Coyle in the middle (we'd probably just bump Brodziak up again).

 

[JudgeJimmie]

it'll be easier to find his replacement on the "3rd line" at the wing position, than it would to replace Coyle in the middle (we'd probably just bump Brodziak up again).

This is my big reason for saying leave him at center and let him develop there. Then at least we will know by seasons end if it's viable or not.

I'd rather have him develop at center than wing, especially if it's in the plan to have him as a center eventually. Would be weird in two to three years when Koivu is in full decline to suddenly expect Coyle to pick up even greater center duties when he's only been playing it if there was an injury.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Center. Good teams are ones built on good centers. If a guy can equally play wing or center, you play him at center, because most other players can only play wing.

Groom him to be Koivu 2.0, and this team will be nasty. Some of the Wild's best seasons were when Koivu was our 3rd line center. He created so many match-up problems for other teams, and his linesmates back then were trash.

 

[AKL]

Center. It's easier to find wings to play the top six than it is to find centers. On top of that, having three scoring lines is very appealing.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Also, I actually don't think he's an overly effective winger. He never put up much offense, even though he was playing with quality players, and he never hit or crashed the net as much as I would have liked from a big winger.

Luckly, Fletcher pulled off the steal of the year by bringing in Nino to fit that role.

 

[AKL]

Also, I actually don't think he's an overly effective winger. He never put up much offense, even though he was playing with quality players, and he never hit or crashed the net as much as I would have liked from a big winger.

Agreed. I've always thought his game is better suited for center than wing.

 

[OpRedDawn*]

I went back and forth, but you gotta keep him at center for the time being (and foreseeable future).

 

[MN_Gopher]

For Coyle. When he was playing with Koivu and Parise it was just do not screw up. Play the corners, cycle and get back to play D. He did it well and went unnoticed on the stat sheet.

Lately with aged Heater and i want to be a full time NHLer Zucker. Coyle has the attitude of I need to make things happen. Play in the center of the ice and get those tick tac goal plays. Points went rocketing up.

Make things happen Coyle is doing well at Center.

It will all come down to Yeo. Scary thought. We look to have three solid line(Parise and Koivu back). Can Yeo roll three lines equally or will he dismantle Heatley, Zucker and Coyle after one bad game? Send Zucks down and move Heatley with two others that have no idea there is a center portion of the ice. Then Coyle goes to wing on the 1st line.

 

[Gaps]

He has been inconsistent at center this season. When we have the option to move him back to wing, I'd probably go for it at least for the remainder of this season. Doesn't mean he'll never be a center, just that he should mature some more, have another good offseason and hopefully after that his play in the middle would be more consistent.

 

[Jarick]

First 34 games of the season = looked like a third line RW
Last 2 games = looked like a top six center

His game is a power forward style so I'd still rather have him at RW. Until he takes the next step and develops consistency, I'd still keep him as a third line winger or let him develop in the minors.

 

[rynryn]

Wing would be the safe bet, but it's nice to know he can fill in at C. honestly i think he was just deferring too much. for a guy who has been touted as an excellent leader i think he was just a little out of his element stepping onto the big stage in a tertiary role. i am certain he'll be able to step back into a wing role once we're healthy keeping this same on-ice attitude he's been playing with.

 

[plock]

He should be playing 3rd line center.I think a lot of people have unrealistically high expectations for him.I do not believe he will become a consitent top line player more likely very good 2nd or 3rd liner.

 

[Beegoalie]

When Koivu/Parise come back I'd send him to Houston for a few games to get some development. Especially offensively. If he responds we'll call him back up. Putting up some points in the AHL for a few games might be good for growth in the offensive side of his game. Right now he's a guy on pace for 30 some points over a full season averaging 16-18 minutes a night. That doesn't cut it.

I love Coyle but the NHL isn't for developing players. That's what the AHL is for.

 

[hirawl]

Absolutely at wing. I think he has a much higher ceiling at wing. A good power forward with good skills and some scoring ability is a luxury not every team has. A great power forward with great skills and a nose for the net is truly a rare breed. I think it's fairly clear he's going to be the former and actually has a chance to be the latter. That card needs to be played.

A solid shutdown 3rd line centre with a scoring touch you can find pretty much anywhere.

 

[Jarick]

The more I watch him, the more I see shades of Mikko from him, but with more speed and a more limited skill set. Both players are physically strong, can rag the puck, play in all three zones, and have strong ethic. But both players are streaky offensively. Coyle seems to like to drive the net more while Koivu likes to dish the puck off at every opportunity.

 

[gphr513]

I think for now he's better suited for the wing, until he can improve his faceoffs. As it stands, I see him as a bit of a liability on the dot.

 

[Harvest]

I think for now he's better suited for the wing, until he can improve his faceoffs. As it stands, I see him as a bit of a liability on the dot.

It take's time, right now he is way better option than Haula and if you putt Coyle back to wing, Haula is our only option.

 

[hirawl]

It take's time, right now he is way better option than Haula and if you putt Coyle back to wing, Haula is our only option.

We're talking career, not right now. At least I hope we are.

 

[JudgeJimmie]

We're talking career, not right now. At least I hope we are.

Yep that's what this thread is for, and if it would be better, for the overall picture, to be leaving him at center or wing.
He has the size to be a big strong powerforward winger, but I believe the Wild should be set a wing for a long time with Needles, Parise, Pommy, Zucker, Fontaine, Bulmer, FA (Vanek anyone)?

I'm with Jarick, watching him at center, and it reminds me of Koivu. Good teams are very strong down the middle, and I think the Wild are a better team running Koivu, Granny, Coyle for the future, hence I think we should leave him at center and let him develop there ie work at faceoffs ect. As mentioned before, it is much harder to find a top 6 or 9 center than it is a top 6-9 winger. If we bring in Vanek next year doesn't

Parise - Koivu - Vanek
Needles - Granny - Pommy
Zucker - Coyle - Fontaine (Maybe Bulmer if he proves himself? Maybe even move Haula to wing?)

Look neat! With a Cook Brodz Mitch shutdown line.

Sending him to the minors is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's needed. Coyle developing at our third line is still better than Brodz or Haula there in my opinion. Plus sending him to the minors would just be strange, here play top line minutes for most of the season, then get sent down at this point.

This also brings up Philips? Another center in our pipe? Does he look to have much of a future, or is he a future Brodziak type replacement?

 

[Vashanesh]

Until someone steps and and TAKES the 2nd line center spot, he's going to be both... And it's going to hurt him in the long run, IMO.

He should be a top-6 center, eventually. Until that happens, I think he should be a 3rd line center. He hasn't remotely impressed me on the Koivu/Parise line, and he hasn't done much this season to deserve the linemates and icetime he's getting.

If we're going to keep him up with us, he needs to have some limits put on his time and linemates, until he can prove that he can produce for more than a game or two at a time.

 

[JudgeJimmie]

Until someone steps and and TAKES the 2nd line center spot, he's going to be both... And it's going to hurt him in the long run, IMO.

He should be a top-6 center, eventually. Until that happens, I think he should be a 3rd line center. He hasn't remotely impressed me on the Koivu/Parise line, and he hasn't done much this season to deserve the linemates and icetime he's getting.

Agreed, which is why I am hoping we decide soon if he is going to be a winger or a center. If he isn't NHL ready at center, and we see him as a center of the future, maybe some AHL ice at center is called for, but from what I've seen, I think he can work as a third line center with the 4th line (Brodz) getting a lot of the hard defensive matchups still.

If we decide winger, well, he better start earning those top line minutes by doing what wingers need to do.. SCORE.

 

[Jarick]

If Granlund and Koivu are still with the Wild, how would Coyle be ahead of them on the depth chart at center?

The only way I see him at #3 center is if he really just stalls out his development. I think his ceiling is higher as a RW power forward who can score. But it may take a while.

Coincidentally, he's played 37 games now each of the last two seasons:

2012-13 8g 6a 14pts +3
2013-14 6g 10a 16pts -7

 

[Vashanesh]

If Granlund and Koivu are still with the Wild, how would Coyle be ahead of them on the depth chart at center?

The only way I see him at #3 center is if he really just stalls out his development. I think his ceiling is higher as a RW power forward who can score. But it may take a while.

Coincidentally, he's played 37 games now each of the last two seasons:

2012-13 8g 6a 14pts +3
2013-14 6g 10a 16pts -7

I should clarify my meaning in saying I believe he will eventually be deserving of being a top-6 center.

Whether or not he ever will be for us remains to be seen.

I think we should push him as a center, in hopes that he can become that tough, middle-6 center that can fill in for Granlund/Koivu when they get hurt. I think that 2 years from now, our top-3 centers being Koivu/Granlund/Coyle will be pretty awesome. Right now? I don't know...