Confirmed Trade: [CGY/ARI] Michael Stone at 50% retained FOR 2017 3rd round pick and a 2018 cndl 5th

[Deen]

He's been really good. Like awesome.

If TJ Brodie has one weakness it's that he can struggle stopping the cycle when up against teams like the Ducks, Kings and Blues. But with Stohe he's great at that and he compliments TJ perfectly.

Absolute steal of a deal.

He doesn't shoot the puck either.

 

[Morgs]

Gotta be the top acquisition of the TDL

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

 

[Volica]

Gotta be the top acquisition of the TDL

Undefeated with him in the lineup.
5 points in 10 games. Playing some really tough minutes with Brodie; while also having absolutely stabilized the Calgary backend.

I'd probably say so. Also considering he cost a 3rd and possibly a 5th...

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

If you want to blindly look at advanced stats as the whole pictures as opposed to being combined with actually watching the game, all the power to you.

Anyone who watches the Flames will tell you how huge an acquisition Stone has been.

 

[Volica]

Not according to Sean Tierney.

Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

That's why charts and information like this are beyond stupid. Absolutely beyond stupid.
Wild are 4-8 with Hanzal in the lineup, but he's sitting nice and pretty up on the chart meanwhile Stone's been essential to his teams success and he's bottom.

Use analytics where they belong

 

[HasbeenHallzy]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

Parenteau is useless when not scoring and has yet to do so with NSH... Pretty sure he's been scratched too (not sure on this)... Clearly there is more to it that the fancy stats

 

[DJJones]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

If it is meant to diminish Stone's contributions I think we can chalk this up to another advanced stats fail haha.

Jooris is right at the top. HAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[deathtouchtrample]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

If this just since the tdl then it's obviously too small a sample size to matter, and if it's for the whole season then it's not really fair to lump in how they played with their previous team to try to find their value to their new team.

 

[Skobel24]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

Advanced stats only tell you so much. Stone has been a solid acquisition for the Flames.

 

[Flameshomer]

If this just since the tdl then it's obviously too small a sample size to matter, and if it's for the whole season then it's not really fair to lump in how they played with their previous team to try to find their value to their new team.

This- advanced stats for defenceman matter very little to not at all when considered for only 10 games. If they were including his time with Phoenix (I hope not) then duh he's near the bottom of the list, he was almost bottom of the entire league advanced stats wise before the trade.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

I Was The first to **** on any idea of trading for stone, but the guy has come in and stabilized the D core. That chart, aside from being so closely mashed together that I had to squint to find stone, is just dumb crap right now.

 

[Snakepit]

Still undefeated with him in the lineup, the only game they've lost since the trade was the one that Stone missed.

 

[Fig]

Not according to Sean Tierney.



Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

What the heck does this chart even mean?

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016...cal-applications-to-player-evaluation-part-1/

I've been reading this thing and I still don't get what it's trying to show. It's even more mystifying to see Sam Reinhart as a negative 5 to zero GAR along side Colton Orr and Toffoli as a 5 to 10 per this article.

The above chart seems to be saying Eaves, Barberio and Hanzal are in the same range as Gallagher, Johnson and Toffoli. So what's the negative red bar supposed to be?


Defensemen also sit on a different scale for GAR. Stone at -1 (at least, I think that's how you read that Sean Tierney chart) means he's close to Rob Scuderi, Martin Marincin and Griffin Reinhart. Ron Hainsey and Kevin Shattenkirk shows a 6 and 7 which is PK Subban and OEL range... ?

Looking at the components of GAR (the next section) will explain why: defensemen will largely contribute to just one or two of the six components (e.g. impact on shot rates), while forwards will contribute to shot rates while also providing material contribution through their shooting percentage, face-offs, and penalty drawing. As a result, when using the current GAR metric to evaluate players, it will be most accurate to compare players within positions, rather than across them.

My crap level understanding (which could be wrong) is that Stone is a highly replaceable Dman per Sean Tierney's GAR chart to Andrew Kerison's discussion from a month ago. Stone is so bad that he is a peer with Griffin Reinhart, Martin Marincin and Rob Scuderi based on "regular stats". I have serious doubts any of those guys could help stabilize our D core in the same way Stone has.


But seriously, there's no way GAR is saying that, is it? Can someone who actually understands what GAR is explain this chart?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Stone is perfectly fine for Calgary:

5v5 Score/Venue/Zone-Adjusted:

Pairing|CF%|FF%|xGF%|SCF%|GF%
Coyotes - Goligoski-Stone|42.16|41.78|38.05|34.65|40.63
Flames - Brodie-Stone | 51.18|51.25 | 56.76 | 62.76 | 83.58
Flames - Brodie-Wideman|50.21|48.35|47.38|48.29|29.66
Flames - Brodie-Engelland|50.29| 53.53 |46.33|45.00|42.43

Is Stone being carried by an elite partner and some pretty good forwards like Ferland, Monahan, and Gaudreau? I'm sure that has a huge part in his success here.

So what? He's a clear upgrade on Dennis Wideman and Deryk Engelland and he cost us a mere 3rd round pick. Excellent pickup that I wanted us to make in the offseason in the first place. His offensive sense more than makes up for any foot speed issues he may have defensively.

Doesn't mean I think he's a true #4, but we're not a team that needs a true #4. If he can play beside TJ Brodie then he's fine as a #4. Brodie is elite and just needs competent beside him. Not like Pronger and Niedermayer had some all-world partners back in '07. Should we still be looking for an upgrade if one presents itself? Sure, but if Stone re-signs at a reasonable price, I will be more than comfortable with Stone in our top 4.

 

[DFF]

Stone has been a huge addition to the Flames

Instead playing garbage defense for 2/3 of the game, now it's just 1/3. Cant wait for Engelland and Bartkowski to leave.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I think the only accurate way to say if someone is a good addition, is to compare them to the player they replaced. If there is no improvement, or the improvement is marginal it's a bad trade. (Boedker/Tanguay last season) If there is improvement like in Calgary it's a good move. They def. won the trade.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I have no idea what the **** GAR is, but I now know to never take a poster using GAR as an argument seriously.

The acquisition of Stone is one of the, if not the biggest reason for the improved ply of the team, and it's not even arguable.

Even Iginla has 2 GWG (of the 4 games the Kings have won) since the deadline. Plus they pretty much got him for free.

 

[Reinhart]

That chart just screams someone that doesn't watch those players play.

Seriously. Anyone justify that chart? It is one thing to go and post that chart, but to name those players specifically as the best adds and even the worst (anyone in LA complaining about Iginla at all?) is just stupid. Like, really, really stupid.

Those metrics don't align with what most hockey fans are seeing. Sure, there are probably some players that are aligned with what the stats represent, but there are those that aren't aligned at all, and calling those names out specifically was kind of funny.

 

[lanky]

I have no idea what the **** GAR is, but I now know to never take a poster using GAR as an argument seriously.

Morgs incorrctly used a tool to arrive at a false conclusion. That doesn't mean the tool is broken.

 

[King In The North]

Not according to Sean Tierney.


Up there with Dwight King, and Iggy as the worst.

But hey, if you guys are happy, all the power to ya.

Ron Hainsey near the top .

Ask Pits how they've liked him.

This is why you don't blindly use one metric to measure performance, folks.

 

[triggrman]

Parenteau has played 4 games and has no points and is only averaging 1 shot per game.


He was not a great pick-up....

 

[Fig]

Morgs incorrctly used a tool to arrive at a false conclusion. That doesn't mean the tool is broken.

Since you seem to know, what is GAR? At first glance it looks like how much a player contributes to the wins of a team, but without any context, I don't get how this tool even works. I can't tell if it works across league, across positions (doesn't seem like it) or if it's just an internal tool for a team to see who would be shipped out first. Most of the explanations I read jump all over the place and are confusing. Furthermore, most articles only show about 5-10 players in a range, declare a scale, then stop.

Is there a league wide GAR resource? Because everything I read has zero context to it and it doesn't make any sense. We already know who the top players are. Delving deeper into where some middle guys are or bottom guys rank would be more interesting.

 

[McShogun99]

This was a trade that I wanted Edmonton to make. Stone was a player that needed a change of scenery, similar to Schultz. A 3rd and a 5th is a small price to pay to take a gamble on a player with Stone's potential.

 

[_Del_]

I'm not even sure that he needed a change of scenery. He had a fine season last year. He had a season-ending injury, came back early compared to the initial timetable this year, and did not look comfortable (or good). He underwhelmed on a terrible team. He also looked a lot better after Christmas and his reads seemed to be improving as he got his mobility back and was returning to form.
I'm not sure why people are surprised that he's not terrible. He's a good dman. He's physical, has size and a cannon of a shot, and isn't lost in his own zone. He's just not terribly consistent and is coming back from a major injury. For a 3rd and a conditional pick, the Flames did great.

 

[DesertDawg]

I think the only accurate way to say if someone is a good addition, is to compare them to the player they replaced. If there is no improvement, or the improvement is marginal it's a bad trade. (Boedker/Tanguay last season) If there is improvement like in Calgary it's a good move. They def. won the trade.

actually, Stone won the trade! Didn't weaken the Flames organization by the cost it took to acquire him and went to Calgary, his wife's hometown. I would be very surprised if he doesn't re-sign there.