Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Lazy, at best, way to try and spin your poor assumptions
Confirmed Signing with Link: [CBJ] Zach Werenski signs extension with the Blue Jackets (6 years, $9.583M AAV)
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Crede777
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- Dec 16, 2009
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Every one of those players had an individual, separate reason for wanting to play elsewhere and none of them had to do with the team or the city.
Duchene already had a house built in Nashville and wasn't offered a contract by Columbus. They didn't see a fit.
Bobrovsky took the biggest deal he was offered which was from Florida. The CBJ didn't offer him as much.
Panarin always dreamed of living in NYC and playing for the Rangers. To the extent that he turned down larger offers from teams like the NY Islanders.
Dubois never said why he wanted out although his agent said it wasn't because of the coach or city. He purchased a very nice condo right before changing his mind on re-signing. Speculation is split between contract concerns and/or to be closer to his family especially during COVID.
Seth Jones' decision was clearly impacted by the once in a lifetime opportunity to become a UFA and the direction the team was headed - they are entering a rebuild. He was VERY picky about where he would re-sign a year early and indicated the ONLY place he would sign was Chicago. If he were motivated by a want to leave above anything else, then he would have likely had a larger list.
Josh Anderson wanted out because of contract negotiations. He wanted to get paid coming out of his ELC but the Jackets staunchly refused. He finally gave in and signed the short term deal. In his contract year, he was injured and rehab went poorly. So naturally the Jackets were going to point to his numbers as a way to not pay him big time on a long term contract. So he wanted out.
To paraphrase GM Jarmo Kekalainen from last week's Front & Nationwide podcast - the team has had a run of players who only seemed to want to play in one place and that was their desire above all else. It was unfortunate and unlucky in his mind.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
We've gotten to the point when as soon as someone starts listing those names it makes it immediately obvious that they don't know (and probably don't care to know) what the hell they're talking about w/r/t the situation here in Columbus.
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
Hey! We won!
- May 30, 2003
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Anyone mentioning Bob leaving Columbus as a negative for Columbus immediately gives their game, their knowledge and their actual intentions away.
I consider anything written after that name as being null and void.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Bob's the "you don't know a damned thing about the franchise" name. The "LOL you completely fail, go away" name, so far as I'm concerned, is Duchene - because obviously having a rental choose not to stay is always indicative of some sort of horrible systemic problem amirite
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
You never have to do it. Look at Bergevin, he was not interested at giving 5.5 to Danault and he was not blamed. You have to put your foot on the ground. Has Lamiorello ever been held hostage by a talent? Never. He rather trade them than overpay. That is the way to do it. Dubas should never have paid Marner this way, same as the other Leafs. It doesn't make sense. And you cannot have a balanced roster by doing that. These 9 million per year for "almost stars" is gonna lead the NHL back to where they were. To think it's the agents' fault is laughable. For sure these guys want their client to be paid to the maximum but a GM is willing to bend the knee to this level, that's his fault.
periferal
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2007
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Here's what I believe (notice the use of the word "believe" and not "know.")...
That the Blue Jackets won't come close to winning a Cup with Jarmo as GM.
If any BJ fan (not those BJ's - The hockey team) wants to split hairs on why so many talented players have left the team in the past 3-4 years I'm more than happy to listen, but there's a much bigger picture here.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
periferal
Registered User
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That joke hasn't been funny since 2001 but whatever you gotta do to make you feel better about yourself.
SteelCityCannon
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2017
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Just plain wrong. Nobody is splitting hairs, honestly outside of PLD this has all been black and white. It's not always money as Jarmo backed the brinks truck back to Panarin and he didnt sign. Basically, just read Crede's post again, this time slower.
periferal
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2007
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Wholly shit. I had never engaged with a group of Blue Jackets fans on HF Boards , but wow...The reactions here are something else.
Like Islander fans who made (and still make) excuses for Charles Wang despite him being an inept owner, the fact that a handful of top end players all chose to not resign or ask to be traded can all be excused away as having nothing to do with the Blue Jacket organization itself is a level of denial that I'm not sure what to equate to analogy-wise.
I understand it's painful to be a fan of a team that is struggling and as a result you have to sling arrows at anyone but the organization itself, but if any CBJ fan is sitting there saying that all the ownership/front office/GM positions are in place and all they have to do is let Jarmo keep doing what he's doing and one day they'll be a Cup contender...Then nothing left to say here.
Like Islander fans who made (and still make) excuses for Charles Wang despite him being an inept owner, the fact that a handful of top end players all chose to not resign or ask to be traded can all be excused away as having nothing to do with the Blue Jacket organization itself is a level of denial that I'm not sure what to equate to analogy-wise.
I understand it's painful to be a fan of a team that is struggling and as a result you have to sling arrows at anyone but the organization itself, but if any CBJ fan is sitting there saying that all the ownership/front office/GM positions are in place and all they have to do is let Jarmo keep doing what he's doing and one day they'll be a Cup contender...Then nothing left to say here.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
They're routine. They really are. We've heard this same sort of barely-aware nonsense before several times over, always with the same underlying condescending hint of "I just need to educate these people for their own good; it's not their fault, they're a non-traditional market; they just can't possibly understand". Whether it's a contract signing situation, or a trade proposal, or how we expect a transaction to ultimately go down, or our front office's priorities, or what we ought to be doing, or et cetera et cetera over and over and over. Some of us still try to engage back and correct misperceptions now and again, but by and large most of us are tired of the stream of dismissive disrespect and just skip straight ahead to pointing and laughing when it inevitably comes up again.
Believe me we've done as much poking and prodding at the org as we possibly can. We want answers more than anyone. There was just a whole set of interviews with anonymous ex-Jackets in the Athletic where they explained what might have caused the exodus, and there was no unifying theory. Just Jarmo needed to ease up on his RFA negotiations a bit. That's it. Other than that it's just a variety of very personal reasons by a few players who left, and other guys who weren't offered extensions.
You've got to understand that we just know this stuff 100x better than you. We've already turned over every rock. Yeah you're going to look dumb if you don't defer to us on this topic, it's just the way it is.
Jovavic
Gaslight Object Project
That sounds like a great idea, do that
Omar23
Registered User
periferal
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So you have a good understanding...Of ultimately not knowing what the problem is.
And no one who's not a CBJ fan can discuss it or offer a theory or opinion because you've been at the organization's throat for years now.
You guys need to relax towards other fans who are coming in peace, and direct all your ire and frustration to the ownership and management that is failing you.
Crede777
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There isn't only one explanation though. The other explanation, which seems more plausible given what we know and what I outlined in my previous post, is that the franchise has just gotten extremely unlucky in having a string of players who didn't stay due to personal choice not reflecting on the team or the city. And nothing that ownership could have done aside from potentially massive overpayment which would have crippled the team could get them to change their minds.
At the end of the day, management cannot wave a magic wand and make players just change their minds.
And even if the players each really liked the team/city and would rate it highly, if it's not their absolute #1 and they feel they have an opportunity to go that #1 destination, then they take it.
No, because you're underhandedly trying to force a false theory here. CBJ ownership is just about perfect and management is not at root of the exodus. They offered Panarin $100m to stay and he turned it down because he wanted to be a Ranger that badly. If you keep pushing B.S. then we're going to keep being frustrated with you.
As a CBJ fan coming in peace... who knows, you may be right with your prediction. Time will tell.
When Jarmo stepped in as the new GM, in media he was profiled with lots of positive attributes: knows the game and players well, is a really good at scouting, has passion and works hard etc. But there were also more "concerning" sides to his persona, some people had described him as being "arrogant" and sometimes difficult to work with for example.
Now after 8 years of Jarmo I can agree he seems to be better than an average NHL scout. He knows who's best player among others and knows who to hire for his scouting team. And that might be his biggest strength as a GM.
Is he good at building a winning team? I don't know but he seems to be doing better job than former GMs. Can't really know how much credit we can give to him for his good and bad moves because there is this guy JD running the hockey operations and who could have significantly affected Jarmo's decisions.
Some of us might think negotiation skills are his weakness. I tend to agree based on the information I get from public sources and especially from that Athletic article some have been referring to.
Is your belief more about his tough negotiation style (or social skills in general) that makes you think good players want to leave the town, and therefore you come to conclusion Jarmo's team will never win the cup, or is it more about the inability to create a successful years long plan and just follow the recipe?
periferal
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2007
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And that's I guess it right there. Do you really believe that the Blue Jackets misfortunes simply come down to luck? Do you really believe if Yzerman was GM over the past decade that things would've played out exactly the same?
Come on.
Good point- Yzerman jumped ship from Tampa Bay! Must be an issue over there, too...
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe
Hey! We won!
- May 30, 2003
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I think many of us would happily have informed discussions with other fans about what has worked and not worked in regards to the CBJ, its ownership and management.
The problem is YOU'RE rejecting the informed discussion.
First, I don't think your premise — that ownership and management are failing the fans — is one the majority of fans would agree with. Ownership and management has been criticized and will continue to be criticized, but I don't know that they're seen as failures among the fans, particularly management. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Second and most significantly is that the "evidence" you cite is a list of players who have left town. That list includes a rental player (Duchene) who didn't choose come here and had telegraphed where he wanted to be for months and a guy who left to happily accept what might be the worst contract in the NHL (Bobrovsky). Are you suggesting Columbus should have paid him more than $70 million over 7 years to keep him. Letting an aging Bob walk is GOOD management, not bad.
The fact that you see it as bad for Columbus tells me everything I need to know about what you know about this organization. Which is very little.
You've been given clear and public explanations for the other departures as well. As a fan, PLD is the only one that really raised a flag with me. The others were frankly understandable. There are a lot of positives about Columbus (aspects that other players have embraced -- Werenski, Rick Nash, Nick Foligno to name a few) but if a player wants to be in New York City (Panarin), well, Columbus is never going to be that. That's ok. That's also not a problem unique to Columbus.
Columbus is a bottom tier NHL city (bottom third, let's say). Most if not all of the fans know this. It is what it is, but what it is also means that we're just not going to be the place some players want to play. That sucks, but it's also reality. We're a small market and we have a crap history. These are not great selling points!
The organization can control factors like culture and winning and pay. They cannot build a massive coastline or eliminate personal income taxes or magically have an 80-year hockey history and be the hometown of every NHL player they want or create the nightlife and activity of a city like New York or LA or Toronto.
Stop with this "I'm just trying to help" victim routine you got going. If you wanted to have a genuine conversation about this topic you would have educated yourself beyond a handful of HF thread titles.
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