Confirmed Signing with Link: [CBJ] Zach Werenski signs extension with the Blue Jackets (6 years, $9.583M AAV)

[TheFinalWord]

These players signed market deals, and would have received similar deals in free agency. We can talk about how Werenski or Jones or Nurse don't deserve the money, but they would have gotten it from another team if they had become free agents. It's the same thing with Buffalo and Skinner. After the year he had, they had to pay him or someone else would have. These often come back to haunt the teams, but it would be worse to just let them walk. Teams have to hope that they don't have too many of these deals and can fill the roster with younger, cheap talent to compete. Morgan Reilly will probably get a deal like this next year. As a Leaf fan, I know we can't afford it. I also don't think he's worth it. But guys like him also don't just grow on trees, so it's a very tough spot.

 

[majormajor]

These players signed market deals, and would have received similar deals in free agency. We can talk about how Werenski or Jones or Nurse don't deserve the money, but they would have gotten it from another team if they had become free agents. It's the same thing with Buffalo and Skinner. After the year he had, they had to pay him or someone else would have. These often come back to haunt the teams, but it would be worse to just let them walk. Teams have to hope that they don't have too many of these deals and can fill the roster with younger, cheap talent to compete. Morgan Reilly will probably get a deal like this next year. As a Leaf fan, I know we can't afford it. I also don't think he's worth it. But guys like him also don't just grow on trees, so it's a very tough spot.

I think a distinction can be drawn around a player's consistency level.

Werenski has had the same kind of impact year to year, Jones is coming off a down year, Nurse is coming off his only elite season, and Reilly had perhaps a year and a half of elite play a couple years ago but has otherwise has been a questionable #1. Skinner was always erratic until becoming consistently bad just before signing his deal.

Werenski's deal makes sense. You know he won't be an albatross. We'll see on Jones and Nurse. Reilly though, I'd bet on such a deal becoming an albatross. He doesn't have the defensive smarts or power play brilliance to provide value if his skating slows.

 

[2 others]

but it would be worse to just let them walk.

No, just because media and the majority of fans say so doesn't make it so. In fact, this is what separates a good GM from a bad one. The good one has the guts to go against the grain if necessary.

 

[Wanderson]

These players signed market deals, and would have received similar deals in free agency. We can talk about how Werenski or Jones or Nurse don't deserve the money, but they would have gotten it from another team if they had become free agents. It's the same thing with Buffalo and Skinner. After the year he had, they had to pay him or someone else would have. These often come back to haunt the teams, but it would be worse to just let them walk. Teams have to hope that they don't have too many of these deals and can fill the roster with younger, cheap talent to compete. Morgan Reilly will probably get a deal like this next year. As a Leaf fan, I know we can't afford it. I also don't think he's worth it. But guys like him also don't just grow on trees, so it's a very tough spot.

Market deals or not, the contracts are awful. A couple of albatross contacts and limited depth will destroy Edmonton’s chances to win anything during the upcoming years. I find it hard to believe that Edmonton decided to repeat the same mistakes Toronto did a couple of years ago. But here we are…

Columbus are different though, they don’t have three players they pay premium.

 

[stevo61]

No, just because media and the majority of fans say so doesn't make it so. In fact, this is what separates a good GM from a bad one. The good one has the guts to go against the grain if necessary.

Yeah, Jarmo is known for being shy and just going with popular opinion

 

[Kimota]

WTF is it 1996 again? We're going straight for another lockout again cause of the stupid GMs.

 

[Fro]

No, just because media and the majority of fans say so doesn't make it so. In fact, this is what separates a good GM from a bad one. The good one has the guts to go against the grain if necessary.

Imagine saying Jarmo doesn't go against the grain...lmao

I mean, not trading Bob/Panarin when everyone said to, drafting players like chinakov in the 1st bc media had him ranked so highly...should I go on

 

[2 others]

Imagine saying Jarmo doesn't go against the grain...lmao

I mean, not trading Bob/Panarin when everyone said to, drafting players like chinakov in the 1st bc media had him ranked so highly...should I go on

Just because he did this in the past means he couldn't do it with the Werenski contract? People can change, adapt to situations. Maybe he's feeling pressure this time around. Come on guys, don't be so black and white.

 

[Fro]

Just because he did this in the past means he couldn't do it with the Werenski contract? People can change, adapt to situations. Maybe he's feeling pressure this time around. Come on guys, don't be so black and white.

You're right, it's not black and white...but stop trying to spin an incorrect speculation into some sort of fact...GMJK has shown more than enough he isn't a "do what someone says" type of GM

 

[2 others]

You're right, it's not black and white...but stop trying to spin an incorrect speculation into some sort of fact...GMJK has shown more than enough he isn't a "do what someone says" type of GM

I'm not trying to spin anything. I dont think you understood what i just said. Your first and last sentence conflict each other.

You know what's black and white? Expecting the same thing happening over and over again because it appears to be a pattern. I explained why Jarmo might have different motives this time around for what he was doing.
What if he goes "with the grain" next time also? Will you then change your mind? Cerebral flexibility is important, and it applies to Jarmo as much as it applies to us.

to get back to topic: Since i experienced the unfolding of the Skinner contract and its evolving tragedy over time i can tell you that a horrible end (letting him walk for nothing, or something similar) is better than endless horror (handcuffing an organziation for years on end, possibly during prime years of its best players, especially in a post-Covid capstrapped world)

 

[CupsOverCash]

These players signed market deals, and would have received similar deals in free agency. We can talk about how Werenski or Jones or Nurse don't deserve the money, but they would have gotten it from another team if they had become free agents. It's the same thing with Buffalo and Skinner. After the year he had, they had to pay him or someone else would have. These often come back to haunt the teams, but it would be worse to just let them walk. Teams have to hope that they don't have too many of these deals and can fill the roster with younger, cheap talent to compete. Morgan Reilly will probably get a deal like this next year. As a Leaf fan, I know we can't afford it. I also don't think he's worth it. But guys like him also don't just grow on trees, so it's a very tough spot.

Indeed it's a tough position to be in and it's easier to be in your room typing on your device what should be done than to actually do it. On one hand you would have to move on from the player and leave that hole open which is not the best option but is an option that is possible. I suppose it's about leverage to the point where the player doesn't want to leave that area or team rather than to get that market deal.

So creating a winning culture is key and having that environment where a guy can sacrifice a bit for the good of the situation. Tougher sell when you don't have that already. So if you don't have that you are more likely to pay. But to get to that place requires things clicking well early on. Timing is very important here. So it's a lot easier said than done with this stuff but some of it falls on the responsibility of the gm or owner whoever you want to hold accountable for how that culture is being built and how/when that is supposed to happen.

But that'd easier said that done too because alot of these guys don't have the time nor patience to build it properly. Win now or go home but that is what competition is. But sometimes it takes that big move or event that changes things to happen. Or just plain good old fashioned winning does the trick.

 

[Crede777]

I'm not trying to spin anything. I dont think you understood what i just said. Your first and last sentence conflict each other.

You know what's black and white? Expecting the same thing happening over and over again because it appears to be a pattern. I explained why Jarmo might have different motives this time around for what he was doing.
What if he goes "with the grain" next time also? Will you then change your mind? Cerebral flexibility is important, and it applies to Jarmo as much as it applies to us.

to get back to topic: Since i experienced the unfolding of the Skinner contract and its evolving tragedy over time i can tell you that a horrible end (letting him walk for nothing, or something similar) is better than endless horror (handcuffing an organziation for years on end, possibly during prime years of its best players, especially in a post-Covid capstrapped world)

Werenski's deal in years 5 and 6 shift most of the money to bonuses and his actual salary in those years is $1 million. Which means if after 4 seasons the Jackets need to move him, they can pay his initial bonus and then move him to a team like Arizona who would be looking for a high cap but low salary player.

I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that the deal is bad but it is structured in a way as to give plenty of flexibility especially later on.

 

[periferal]

Classic HF overreaction.

Classic Columbus can't typically keep it's players so they have to overpay to do so overreaction.

 

[periferal]

I like Werenski a lot but this is Skinner in buffalo "pay because we can't lose him too" vibes.

Thought the same thing too. Only thing is it sure felt like Skinner was going to disappear after getting that deal, while I'm very confident Werenski will be a very good player throughout his.

Both overpaid, but Columbus is going to get a much better return on its money.

 

[Puckclektr]

WTF is it 1996 again? We're going straight for another lockout again cause of the stupid GMs.

Don’t players and agents have some sort of culpability?
Imagine if a GM let a player walk becuse he didn’t want to sign him to a rediculous contract. The fans would be all over him.
Fans don’t get mad at the players like Marner for signing for $11m. They get mad at the GMs who have to do it so they aren’t forced to trade him to another team for little becuse his value dropped becuse of his demands.
It’s always the GMs fault when it should not be.

 

[Monk]

Classic Columbus can't typically keep it's players so they have to overpay to do so overreaction.

Which teams typically can keep their UFA players without paying them the UFA price?

 

[BB88]

Just because he did this in the past means he couldn't do it with the Werenski contract? People can change, adapt to situations. Maybe he's feeling pressure this time around. Come on guys, don't be so black and white.

Did you watch Columbus 2021 offseason?

 

[periferal]

Which teams typically can keep their UFA players without paying them the UFA price?

Well since we'll never know what Werenski, or Nurse, or anyone would've gotten on the open market it's impossible to say.

What we do know is players have left/wanted out of Columbus seemingly more than more teams, so if there is a team that would need to overpay to keep their own, they would certainly be one.

 

[Monk]

Well since we'll never know what Werenski, or Nurse, or anyone would've gotten on the open market it's impossible to say.

What we do know is players have left/wanted out of Columbus seemingly more than more teams, so if there is a team that would need to overpay to keep their own, they would certainly be one.

"We'll never know and it's impossible to say, except in this case where we'll go ahead and say it's an overpay"

 

[periferal]

"We'll never know and it's impossible to say, except in this case where we'll go ahead and say it's an overpay"

Well that's taking what I said, oversimplifying, and not seeing nuance. Try to understand...

Of course it's impossible to know for sure if a player was overpaid, especially if they don't reach the open market.

That said we do know that a lot of (very good) players have wanted out/chosen not to resign in Columbus. So by that logic one could assume that they would have to overpay to keep their own.

 

[Monk]

Well that's taking what I said, oversimplifying, and not seeing nuance. Try to understand...

Of course it's impossible to know for sure if a player was overpaid, especially if they don't reach the open market.

That said we do know that a lot of (very good) players have wanted out/chosen not to resign in Columbus. So by that logic one could assume that they would have to overpay to keep their own.

As long as we're clear that you're 1. making an assumption and 2. basing your assumption on a murky-at-best fact, I think we can let it lie.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Broken record on this, but the contracts that players sign are the market. Your theoretical (often lowball) price for Player X in your head is not the market.

The actual market is what the GMs are willing to pay.

 

[Mr Positive]

Werenski is a clear cut #1 Dman

We should not be shocked by this deal. Did we miss the days where Kane and Toews got paid, followed by a string of 9+million deals? These are common now, and the ones that aren't come from a time of smaller caps.

It just looks strange because most of the time, it takes D longer than forwards. Forward thinking GMs lock up their D long term before they hit full value. For these UFAs, of course they are hitting numbers that the forwards are. It shouldn't be surprising. You also do not need to try to explain it by saying UFAs hate Columbus

 

[periferal]

As long as we're clear that you're 1. making an assumption and 2. basing your assumption on a murky-at-best fact, I think we can let it lie.

What do you think is going on at HF Boards? Most posts here are assumptions/opinions. However when you see...

Duchene
Bobrovsky
Panarin
Dubois
Jones

...All either wanted out or not resign with Columbus among others, that's pretty freaking telling. I mean Jones didn't even care what the Jackets were going to offer, he told them a year in advance to get rid of him.

So nothing is 100% on these boards, or in life, but if you think that based on all the information us fans have Columbus is a destination franchise, and they wouldn't have to pay up at least as much as other teams if not more to keep their own, much less attract a top UFA, then yes - You should definitely let it lie.

 

[Monk]

What do you think is going on at HF Boards? Most posts here are assumptions/opinions. However when you see...

Duchene
Bobrovsky
Panarin
Dubois
Jones

...All either wanted out or not resign with Columbus among others, that's pretty freaking telling. I mean Jones didn't even care what the Jackets were going to offer, he told them a year in advance to get rid of him.

So nothing is 100% on these boards, or in life, but if you think that based on all the information us fans have Columbus is a destination franchise, and they wouldn't have to pay up at least as much as other teams if not more to keep their own, much less attract a top UFA, then yes - You should definitely let it lie.

I don't think we need to re-hash this list of players. Read through any of the other threads on this subject as to why your list makes little sense as the basis for your opinion.