Career and peak: Patrick Kane vs Nikita Kucherov

[Ignite111]

Kuch easy

 

[Voight]

Kucherov’s playoff pedigree is so overrated on this site. For a guy who has never came that close to a Conn Smythe you would think the guy put the team on his back or something.

Hes one of three players in NHL history to score 30 points in back to back playoff runs.

The other two are these guys Gretzky & Lemieux.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Peak is Kucherov, easy answer

Career, I lean torward Kane, as of now, but could be overtaked by Kucherov at some points

 

[NVious]

Kucherov's IQ is Godly, he even masterminds new ways to cheat NHL rules. An evil genius on and off the ice.

Kane can barely get away with roughing up some joe blow cab driver

 

[ijuka]

Kucherov peak and career...

Kucherov’s playoff pedigree is so overrated on this site. For a guy who has never came that close to a Conn Smythe you would think the guy put the team on his back or something.

In the years Tampa won the cup, Kucherov had 34 points in 25 games, and 32 points in 23 games.

 

[LightningStorm]

Kucherov’s playoff pedigree is so overrated on this site. For a guy who has never came that close to a Conn Smythe you would think the guy put the team on his back or something.

For 2021, I was genuinely split between Kuch and Vasy for the CS. A true 50/50 scenario where I would've been perfectly fine with either.

 

[Regal]

Kucherov's IQ is Godly, he even masterminds new ways to cheat NHL rules. An evil genius on and off the ice.

Kane can barely get away with roughing up some joe blow cab driver

Kane did the same thing in 2015 before Kucherov did though.

Hes one of three players in NHL history to score 30 points in back to back playoff runs.

The other two are these guys Gretzky & Lemieux.

It’s a nice bit of trivia but it ultimately doesn’t mean nearly as much as it sounds though

 

[JaegerDice]

Kucherov peak, Kane career.

I do agree with the idea that Kucherov tends to dominate games more when he’s on.

Kane is one of those guys that will often have the puck on his stick for a total of 30 seconds in an entire game, yet still somehow end the night with multiple pointes and be the guy that puts the dagger through the other team’s heart. He’s more about incredibly timely bursts of massive impact rather than sustained domination.

I give Kane the edge in career just cause he has a longer track record of coming up big in big moments. Also because he’s the guy you constantly hear guys coming into the league saying they loved watching him and hope to model their game after him. I think he’s had more influence on current and future generations of players.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Kucherov peak, Kane career.

Kane led the entire NHL in scoring for the decade of the 2010's.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

It’s a nice bit of trivia but it ultimately doesn’t mean nearly as much as it sounds though

Why?

 

[Regal]

Why?

Because there’s too many external factors that go into it. You have to be on a team that’s good enough/lucky to go to back to back finals in order to play enough games, but also not too good to play too few, you have to be in a higher scoring era, your team has to be generally high scoring and have other weapons to play off of, and you have to play the right opponents to score enough. And even if those factors align and you’re good enough to do it, simple variance can prevent you because it’s basically your only shot. So while it’s quite impressive, saying “only Wayne and Mario did it” suggests that it’s more impressive than anything anyone else has done, which ignores the other factors. When he didn’t even win the Conn Smythe in either year, it’s hard to suggest that it’s more impressive than other great runs simply because of this one measure.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Because there’s too many external factors that go into it. You have to be on a team that’s good enough/lucky to go to back to back finals in order to play enough games, but also not too good to play too few, you have to be in a higher scoring era, your team has to be generally high scoring and have other weapons to play off of, and you have to play the right opponents to score enough. And even if those factors align and you’re good enough to do it, simple variance can prevent you because it’s basically your only shot. So while it’s quite impressive, saying “only Wayne and Mario did it” suggests that it’s more impressive than anything anyone else has done, which ignores the other factors. When he didn’t even win the Conn Smythe in either year, it’s hard to suggest that it’s more impressive than other great runs simply because of this one measure.

Fair enough good answer

 

[Gurglesons]

Has to be Kucherov for both.

Kucherov peak, Kane career.

Kane led the entire NHL in scoring for the decade of the 2010's.

Is it supposed to be impressive Kane had 14 more points than Crosby in 100+ more games?

Kucherov peak, Kane career.

I do agree with the idea that Kucherov tends to dominate games more when he’s on.

Kane is one of those guys that will often have the puck on his stick for a total of 30 seconds in an entire game, yet still somehow end the night with multiple pointes and be the guy that puts the dagger through the other team’s heart. He’s more about incredibly timely bursts of massive impact rather than sustained domination.

I give Kane the edge in career just cause he has a longer track record of coming up big in big moments. Also because he’s the guy you constantly hear guys coming into the league saying they loved watching him and hope to model their game after him. I think he’s had more influence on current and future generations of players.

Kucherov has 160 points to Kane's 138 in 1 less playoff game.

 

[JaegerDice]

Has to be Kucherov for both.



Is it supposed to be impressive Kane had 14 more points than Crosby in 100+ more games?



Kucherov has 160 points to Kane's 138 in 1 less playoff game.

As others in this thread have outlined, Kane has more points in elimination games (both facing elimination and opportunity yo eliminate).

Moreover, Kane played in lower-scoring seasons than Kucherov.

Very little question to me that Kane was the better big game player. Kucherov has time to usurp him.

 

[Gurglesons]

As others in this thread have outlined, Kane has more points in elimination games (both facing elimination and opportunity yo eliminate).

Moreover, Kane played in lower-scoring seasons than Kucherov.

Very little question to me that Kane was the better big game player. Kucherov has time to usurp him.

Kucherov's potentially going to have a better resume than any player not named Crosby, McDavid or Ovechkin since the cap era started when his career is over.

The elimination game crowd probably would use that stat against Lemieux / Gretzky if they could to show Kane is some untouchable playoff god.

 

[JaegerDice]

Kucherov's potentially going to have a better resume than any player not named Crosby, McDavid or Ovechkin since the cap era started when his career is over.

Very possibly. Not yet tho.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Kucherov better peak is pretty obvious

Career? Why does Kuch have so much more votes at this? Kane's hardware collection is way more impressive with Conn Smythe and additional Cup + some other trophies such as Calder. Kuch can obviously catch a lot IF he wins art+hart but he isn't even top favorite so I'm not pre-counting him any trophies

If the career question goes even deeper(off-ice), Kuch can't match to Americans golden boy with popularity and reputation, not even at Russia.

Peak Kucherov, better player Kucherov. Career? Kane.

 

[Dingo]

I remember seeing Kane had dominating stats in elimination games, but hadn't seen the actual numbers in a while. I ran the stats because I was curious. This is done manually, pretty sure there's no errors but could be a small error here or there.

Kane - in games where his team faces elimination: 23 games, 7 goals, 18 assists 25 points (4 game winning goals)
Kane - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 22 games, 14 goals, 15 assists, 28 points (3 game winners)

Kucherov - in games where his team faces elimination: 14 games, 2 goals 5 assists 7 points (0 game winner)
Kucherov - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 29 games, 7 goals, 11 assists 18 points (1 game winner)

You're right - worlds apart, and then some, in both elimination games, and in games where they can eliminate someone.

That being said - I stick by my earlier assessment that Kucherov > Kane for playoffs overall. As much as Kane is a killer in key games late in a series, starting rounds strong is just as important to wining a round, maybe moreso. And playoffs overall is still edge to Kucherov for me.

yep, every game matters in the postseason. I would assume that these numbers leave Kucherov's stats in all other playoff games far ahead of Kane's.

I cant see how being good in game 1, 2 or doesnt mean as much as game 5, 6 or 7. Everyone is playing their hardest every shift of every playoff game. The way that points fall is probably more to do with random chance over a small sample size.

 

[authentic]

Kucherov better peak is pretty obvious

Career? Why does Kuch have so much more votes at this? Kane's hardware collection is way more impressive with Conn Smythe and additional Cup + some other trophies such as Calder. Kuch can obviously catch a lot IF he wins art+hart but he isn't even top favorite so I'm not pre-counting him any trophies

If the career question goes even deeper(off-ice), Kuch can't match to Americans golden boy with popularity and reputation, not even at Russia.

Peak Kucherov, better player Kucherov. Career? Kane.

How is Kucherov peak better obvious? Kane in 2015-16 is atleast as good as Kucherov at any point of his career.

 

[Regal]

How is Kucherov peak better obvious? Kane in 2015-16 is atleast as good as Kucherov at any point of his career.

Kane’s best season relative to league scoring is similar to Kucherov’s 18-19, but I think he’s playing better than either this year. We’ll have to see how it plays out at the end of the year though

 

[JaegerDice]

yep, every game matters in the postseason. I would assume that these numbers leave Kucherov's stats in all other playoff games far ahead of Kane's.

I cant see how being good in game 1, 2 or doesnt mean as much as game 5, 6 or 7. Everyone is playing their hardest every shift of every playoff game. The way that points fall is probably more to do with random chance over a small sample size.

Im sorry, are you genuinely arguing that elimination games are equally important to games 1 and 2 in a playoff series?

Cause Im pretty sure any team that has lost after holding a 2-1, 2-0, 3-1 and even 3-0 series lead would beg to differ…

 

[ijuka]

Im sorry, are you genuinely arguing that elimination games are equally important to games 1 and 2 in a playoff series?

They pretty much are, yeah. You want to total 4 wins. It doesn't matter which of the 7 games those 4 wins come in. Whether it's game 1 or game 7, it's worth the same.

Cause Im pretty sure any team that has lost after holding a 2-1, 2-0, 3-1 and even 3-0 series lead would beg to differ…

2-1, 2-0, 3-1, and 3-0 all are massively favored for the team to win, and therefore getting to that position is very beneficial.

Also, how is it a bad thing if your team wins a series without ever getting to 3 series losses, aka while never reaching an elimination game? Strange logic.

 

[JaegerDice]

They pretty much are, yeah. You want to total 4 wins. It doesn't matter which of the 7 games those 4 wins come in. Whether it's game 1 or game 7, it's worth the same.


2-1, 2-0, 3-1, and 3-0 all are massively favored for the team to win, and therefore getting to that position is very beneficial.

Also, how is it a bad thing if your team wins a series without ever getting to 3 series losses, aka while never reaching an elimination game? Strange logic.

The point is the only games that determine a series win or loss are elimination games.

Getting to 1, 2 or 3 wins is not the goal.

 

[authentic]

Kane’s best season relative to league scoring is similar to Kucherov’s 18-19, but I think he’s playing better than either this year. We’ll have to see how it plays out at the end of the year though

I suppose but I’m doubtful he even scores more than 128. I definitely don’t see an obviously better player than Kane at his best when I watch him, best case scenario he’s slightly better.

 

[geebster]

My instinct is to say Kane for both but a lot of that is how much I feared Kane as a Canucks fan. His ability in the clutch in the playoffs to score when everyone was all over him was insane.

But thinking about it more than just feeling and nostalgia, it's Kucherov. If I think about where I'd rank Kane in that era across the league he's not top 3 or in that discussion overall, but Kucherov is absolutely in discussion for overall top 3 to 4 of this era. Then his playoff runs were.... insane. Having watched both in full I fully thought he deserved at least one Conn Smythe.