Career and peak: Patrick Kane vs Nikita Kucherov

[SeanMoneyHands]

Who has had the better career and peak?

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[Play]

I know people will give me shit because I’m from Buffalo.. but this is Kaner

 

[hamzarocks]

Kucherov better peak and better career when he retires

He has been the third best player in hockey since 2017-2018 after Mack and Mcdavid which gives him the better prime and likely better career by the end of ut

Kanes peak in 2016 was amazing but Kucherovs 2019 was just as amazing

Now Kucherov is having a better peak year somehow at 30+ years of age.

 

[LightningStorm]

Kucherov has a slight edge for peak. Career is still Kane as of now, but I think Kucherov is on a trajectory to surpass him. Definitely in the same tier as players.

 

[authentic]

Very close but I prefer Kane at his best. When the chips are down there are few better players in recent history and no Kucherov isn’t one of them.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Very close but I prefer Kane at his best. When the chips are down there are few better players in recent history and no Kucherov isn’t one of them.

Kucherov is definitely one of them.

 

[Regal]

Pretty close. I think I’d take Kucherov as the better player slightly, but he hasn’t quite matched Kane’s career yet.

 

[authentic]

Kucherov is definitely one of them.

Better than Kane? Not even close. Their stats in elimination games are worlds apart.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Pretty close. If Kucherov adds another art ross this year he moves ahead clearly.

 

[AndreRoy]

Kuch has done things in the postseason that only Gretzky and Lemieux had done before him. He’s been a top-two player in the league for the last several years and the best for some of them. He’s a better postseason player than Kane and has a better regular season peak; by the time he retires his career will unquestionably be better as well. This is an easy call.

 

[strattonius]

It's a pretty good question as evidenced by the results so far.

I think it's Kane and maybe it's because I'm a Canucks fan and he has given me nightmares. I just remember getting anxious every time he had the puck in the playoffs. A playmaking menace.

Its not something both can compete for but P. Kane is probably the best American born player in history. Kucherov can't be that I understand but I think it adds something to Kane's legacy when we talk about career achievements.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

The reason I say Kucherov is because both players played for great teams, but Kucherov just dominates the game much more than Kane.

Kane is an ATG and HOFer, don't get me wrong. The best American player of all time quit easily. But I do genuinely believe that Kucherov was more of the MVP for the Lightning than he's given credit for. If it wasn't for Kucherov the Lightning would never pass the second round in the playoffs. I can't say the same for Kane and the stacked Hawks teams.

 

[Regal]

Kuch has done things in the postseason that only Gretzky and Lemieux had done before him. He’s been a top-two player in the league for the last several years and the best for some of them. He’s a better postseason player than Kane and has a better regular season peak; by the time he retires his career will unquestionably be better as well. This is an easy call.

It’s only easy if you don’t put their points in any context

 

[authentic]

The reason I say Kucherov is because both players played for great teams, but Kucherov just dominates the game much more than Kane.

Kane is an ATG and HOFer, don't get me wrong. The best American player of all time quit easily. But I do genuinely believe that Kucherov was more of the MVP for the Lightning than he's given credit for. If it wasn't for Kucherov the Lightning would never pass the second round in the playoffs. I can't say the same for Kane and the stacked Hawks teams.

When people say things like this it makes it pretty clear they never watched Kane at his best. “Dominates games much more” is a wildly inaccurate statement, especially considering once Kane was actually matched up with an elite winger in Panarin he dominated the scoring race even more than Kucherov did. Both have excelled in the playoffs but the difference is Kucherov does most of his damage early in the series and Kane has been the difference maker once a team is on the brink of elimination.

 

[Despote]

Kucherov is a bit better I'd say. His point production is more impressive relative to league scoring and he's done it with a lower ice time. But he's had pretty damn loaded linemates compared to Kane too. I'd say they're comparable 5vs5 but Kucherov has powerplay magic which pushes him ahead.

 

[strattonius]

You can't really just look at point production. P. Kane peaked in a lower scoring era of hockey.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I would say Kucherov not only for peak but also for prime.

Kucherov has been considered a top 5 player for most of his prime whereas Kane was only considered top 5 during his peak.

If Kucherov wins the Art Ross, Lindsay or Hart this season, then that probably seals it for him.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Kucherov is definitely one of them.

Kucherov’s playoff pedigree is so overrated on this site. For a guy who has never came that close to a Conn Smythe you would think the guy put the team on his back or something.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I would say Kucherov not only for peak but also for prime.

Kucherov has been considered a top 5 player for most of his prime whereas Kane was only considered top 5 during his peak.

If Kucherov wins the Art Ross, Lindsay or Hart this season, then that probably seals it for him.

I said Kane for peak, but it’s close. Kane has been the most dangerous offensive weapon on the ice in all of his cup runs and he snagged the Conn Smythe.

Kucherov has never been the best player on his team in any of those cup runs, and sometimes wasn’t even the best forward in his cup runs while at times being outplayed by Point.

For a cup run in their prime I’d have to take Kane all day. Kane is one of the best wingers the league has ever seen in his ability to control tempo and slow down the game.

 

[AndreRoy]

Kucherov’s playoff pedigree is so overrated on this site. For a guy who has never came that close to a Conn Smythe you would think the guy put the team on his back or something.

Beyond laughable and shows how little you know about hockey. Both of Kuch’s Cup runs were Conn Smythe-worthy; it just happened that Hedman and Vasy each had one historic run apiece for their respective positions apiece so were equally worthy. But for anyone to claim that Kuch accomplishing something that only Gretzky and Lemieux had before him is “overrated” is the height of ignorance, if not outright stupidity.

But then we’ve seen from other threads how you seem to have some sort of severe and frankly disturbing animus towards Kucherov so none of this is surprising coming from you.

 

[bobholly39]

Best two seasons: Kucherov 2018-2019 and this year (not done yet maybe, but we're getting close)

Best two playoff runs: Kucherov 20 & 21

they are comparable players maybe, but Kucherov has simply peaked higher. He already has the better overall playoff resume than Kane. He might be a bit light on career regular season games (693 vs 1199), but I expect Kucherov to definitely finish ahead of Kane all-time, so I voted Kucherov for both peak and career. One can probably argue kane is still ahead on career for the time being if they really wanted to

 

[bobholly39]

Better than Kane? Not even close. Their stats in elimination games are worlds apart.

I remember seeing Kane had dominating stats in elimination games, but hadn't seen the actual numbers in a while. I ran the stats because I was curious. This is done manually, pretty sure there's no errors but could be a small error here or there.

Kane - in games where his team faces elimination: 23 games, 7 goals, 18 assists 25 points (4 game winning goals)
Kane - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 22 games, 14 goals, 15 assists, 28 points (3 game winners)

Kucherov - in games where his team faces elimination: 14 games, 2 goals 5 assists 7 points (0 game winner)
Kucherov - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 29 games, 7 goals, 11 assists 18 points (1 game winner)

You're right - worlds apart, and then some, in both elimination games, and in games where they can eliminate someone.

That being said - I stick by my earlier assessment that Kucherov > Kane for playoffs overall. As much as Kane is a killer in key games late in a series, starting rounds strong is just as important to wining a round, maybe moreso. And playoffs overall is still edge to Kucherov for me.

 

[authentic]

I remember seeing Kane had dominating stats in elimination games, but hadn't seen the actual numbers in a while. I ran the stats because I was curious. This is done manually, pretty sure there's no errors but could be a small error here or there.

Kane - in games where his team faces elimination: 23 games, 7 goals, 18 assists 25 points (4 game winning goals)
Kane - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 22 games, 14 goals, 15 assists, 28 points (3 game winners)

Kucherov - in games where his team faces elimination: 14 games, 2 goals 5 assists 7 points (0 game winner)
Kucherov - in games where his team can eliminate someone: 29 games, 7 goals, 11 assists 18 points (1 game winner)

You're right - worlds apart, and then some, in both elimination games, and in games where they can eliminate someone.

That being said - I stick by my earlier assessment that Kucherov > Kane for playoffs overall. As much as Kane is a killer in key games late in a series, starting rounds strong is just as important to wining a round, maybe moreso. And playoffs overall is still edge to Kucherov for me.

Honestly when they’re this close that’s the tie breaker for me. I have seen far too often how the later games in a series are harder to score in, it matters and it matches what I have seen from both players, I would take Kane every single time over Kucherov in their primes.

Also when you consider linemates and the difference in scoring when they both had their primes I don’t think Kucherov even has an edge in overall playoff scoring to begin with.

 

[wetcoast]

Kucherov better peak and better career when he retires

Kuch has the better peak but right now Kane has the better career and it's hard to say if Kuch passes him but it could haopen

He has been the third best player in hockey since 2017-2018 after Mack and Mcdavid which gives him the better prime and likely better career by the end of ut

This is extremely debatable in NHL terms but in fantasy hockey sure.

Kanes peak in 2016 was amazing but Kucherovs 2019 was just as amazing

Now Kucherov is having a better peak year somehow at 30+ years of age.

I think people need to look at team context as well here a bit Kuch scorers a ton of points but has a great line and Hedman there on the PP.

 

[wetcoast]

The reason I say Kucherov is because both players played for great teams, but Kucherov just dominates the game much more than Kane.

Kane is an ATG and HOFer, don't get me wrong. The best American player of all time quit easily. But I do genuinely believe that Kucherov was more of the MVP for the Lightning than he's given credit for. If it wasn't for Kucherov the Lightning would never pass the second round in the playoffs. I can't say the same for Kane and the stacked Hawks teams.

Do people really think Kane is better all time than Chelios?