OT: Career advice

[Hunter Gathers]

Speaking of banks that seem to be hiring.

Societe Generale always seems to be needing people.

 

[iamitter]

Someone also mentioned learn a programming language. Great advice, I would suggest learning more than one of java / C++ / C# / python.

Learn how to use SQL Server / Oracle to manipulate large volumes of data. Also look to layer reporting tools like Excel / Access / business obj where it's easier to connect to large data sets and break them into smaller child cubes that you query for reports.

All exchange based trading is going Electronic / Automated / Algo. Understand dark pools and how they work, trade matching, colocation, etc. There will still be 'high touch' but it is shrinking by the day.

Look for what peaks your interest and focus your energies in that direction.

Stay away from European banks if you can. JPM is somewhat decent but cultish. Citi is an unmanageable mess. Wells is damaged goods right now. BofA is decent but the ML boys are risk takers.

Goldman is the gold standard of IB's but they will beat the **** out of you. They interview people until they want to give up.

MS is all right, they have a decent plan loving forward.

Barclays has a solid plan under Jes Staley, but their legacy issues are massive and refusing to pay fines doesn't help.

Credit Suisse is an utter toilet and that's a compliment.

Jeffries is decent but a mid tier investment bank.

Hedge funds are tough right now, returns aren't what they used to be and in some cases they are getting released by the larger prime brokers.

Citadel is top notch but is a bit cultish.

Millennium / Oppenheimer / etc wash rinse repeat.

Renaissance is the best but top secret and you ain't getting in without a Phd in Quant/Stat theory.

Not super helpful if you're not planning on going into engineering. If you want to learn some scripting, just stick to excel scripting and maybe a teensy bit of python. That + the basics in a database querying language like sql is more than enough.

Learning the basics of java isn't going to get anyone any job. Knowing a tiny bit of scripting in combo with being an excel wizard will get you a ton, however.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Yea i'd consider myself an excel master.. ive taken multiple classes in college on excel and have Aced all of them. Pivot Tables and all that stuff.

i'd just recently taught myself R. and am taking a class on SAS in the spring.

i can't find anything coding wise i can take without being a computer science major.


i wish i could go back and redo college instead i wasted alot of time being a poltical science major

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yea i'd consider myself an excel master.. ive taken multiple classes in college on excel and have Aced all of them. Pivot Tables and all that stuff.

i'd just recently taught myself R. and am taking a class on SAS in the spring.

i can't find anything coding wise i can take without being a computer science major.


i wish i could go back and redo college instead i wasted alot of time being a poltical science major

Look into Code Academy. They have a bunch of free and intro stuff online and then stuff you can take after you've done some of the lower level stuff.

 

[iamitter]

Quite the contrary - you can find more than a few people with engineering backgrounds at IB's. Especially in HFT.

Absolutely agreed.

Online Java classes does not an engineering background make, however. You have to be really dedicated and put in a lot of external time and learn at the very least to the data structures level. That's not a short term task and frankly OP is better served learning some basic scripting and becoming an all star analyst rather than trying to pivot into engineering at the end of his college stint.

 

[iamitter]

If you want to actually learn how to code in Java, forget the beginner stuff in codecademy and the like. Take one of the free MIT opencourseware classes or coursera or whatever and take intro to java.

For the next level after that, I recommend https://www.coursera.org/learn/algorithm-design-analysis (you can get it for free after requesting fin aid, its a simple form).
Alternatively, take these two https://www.coursera.org/learn/algorithms-part1 https://www.coursera.org/learn/java-data-structures-algorithms-2

The former is more theory oriented, the latter is more implementation. Both are great.

Having said that, I think it is a mistake to try to change your career by learning strongly typed languages at this point. Lean on your strengths. If you get a job at any typical big bank, unless you're on the software team, you won't be allowed to code anyway. You will be allowed to do excel macros, though and make models. I'd recommend that route.


If you really want to learn a programming language, go for python.
https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
The above is by far the best way to learn. It's just so, so good. Don't expect any skills to be directly used in your day to day, though, do it because you appreciate learning that type of thinking and want to develop different thinking patterns.

 

[RangerBlues]

LOL@angry basement dwellers.

Funny
I spend my life in basements

 

[SalaciousCrumb]

Also saw where someone mentioned Big 4. Not a bad place to start, I did 7 years to start my career at a Big 4. Worked like a dog on some major audit and fraud clients. And I mean like a dog. 7 days a week, Sundays might be 4-5 hours. Depends on where you land.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Also saw where someone mentioned Big 4. Not a bad place to start, I did 7 years to start my career at a Big 4. Worked like a dog on some major audit and fraud clients. And I mean like a dog. 7 days a week, Sundays might be 4-5 hours. Depends on where you land

If strictly Audit and you have large clients (if they are large your only going to have 2 max) you will choke when it comes to quarter and year end when FS are issued.

Consulting is great, learn alot, great exposure bit again hours can be tough.

Not too sure about tax other than obviously tax season blows. I've seen people reduced to rubble.

You will get a good job when you decide to leave, unless you suck. Alot of times people leave for jobs at their clients.

I look back very fondly at those years. Partied a ton, did some good travel early on and made some great friends.

Big 4 is equivalent hours-wise to big law at half the salary. I have no idea how people can even do it. It's great for the resume, though.

 

[SalaciousCrumb]

Big 4 is equivalent hours-wise to big law at half the salary. I have no idea how people can even do it. It's great for the resume, though.

Don't know much about law side of the house from a corporate perspective. My buddy said he keeps 2 full extra changes of clothes in his office and he has been doing it for 20 years.

 

[Crease]

Had a great interview yesterday with a midtown law firm. Sat with the founding partners for 75 minutes discussing what I've done, what they do, hockey, and James Bond.

I'm happy with the firm I'm currently with, have been dropping resumes just to see what else is out there. So when compensation came up I asked for quite a bit. Out of their range but we'll see what they offer. The interview was a good exercise if for no other reason than I don't often enough take a step back and appreciate what I've accomplished to date.

For those of you still hunting, it's a numbers game so don't get discouraged and keep at it. I must have dropped about 20 resumes this round. This was my first callback. A career counselor once told me 60 applications is a good target.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Lets keep this thread on career discussion/advice and away from anything that could be construed political. Gracias.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Had a great interview yesterday with a midtown law firm. Sat with the founding partners for 75 minutes discussing what I've done, what they do, hockey, and James Bond.

I'm happy with the firm I'm currently with, have been dropping resumes just to see what else is out there. So when compensation came up I asked for quite a bit. Out of their range but we'll see what they offer The interview was a good exercise if for no other reason than I don't often enough take a step back and appreciate what I've accomplished to date.

For those of you still hunting, it's a numbers game so don't get discouraged and keep at it. I must have dropped about 20 resumes this round. This was my first callback. A career counselor once told me 60 applications is a good target.

Good luck!

The interview process is really one of the best ways to gain some perspective on ones career. When I was looking for a new position a few months back I was able to realize how much I have accomplished at this point in my life. I like to think I am a fairly humble person. This was an opportunity for me to walk in the door and brag about everything I have accomplished. Not going to lie, it felt really good.

Fortunately my #1 choice made me an offer, I made the move to Pharma and I couldn't be happier.

For anyone who is thinking about changing careers, interview as much as you can. Even if it is for a position where the salary may be slightly less or a company where you aren't sure you would be a good fit, still go to the interview. It will help you hone your skills, keep you sharp and ensure you are ready when you get an interview for the position you want.

Also, you couldn't be more correct on the numbers game aspect. I was a bit bothered by the fact that the first few jobs I applied to I was perfectly qualified. It was actually Megusta who texted me and told me this exact same thing, it is a numbers game and don't get discouraged. I took his advice, I didn't get discouraged and I started applying for multiple positions each day. Ultimately, it worked.

 

[Thordic]

Speaking of banks that seem to be hiring.

Societe Generale always seems to be needing people.

Of all the banks and financial institutions I deal with on a regular basis, they are by FAR the worst.

Maybe they are a great place to work at, but they are terrible to deal with. Wells Fargo is up there as well, but SocGen takes the cake.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I cannot stress enough how important networking is, as many others have said in this thread. This isn't exactly breaking news, but I dont think young people realize how much it really is who you know. I didn't.

Even internal moves - knowing someone is everything. Every move I've made internally in the company I've been with for 10 years has been a result of someone I had known well. A VP from a different department who was an alum of the same college - we had lunch occasionally. He is accountant by trade and not a systems guy. He needed some systems knowledge a few years ago, and I was who he thought of right away.

I'm moving a new role in March, secured with help from my old customer from years ago who I remained in touch with (occasional lunches), and who has rose up the ranks.

Simply applying internally for jobs that seem appealing doesn't work. Even if you're over qualified. They're nearly always filled by people who know one of the bosses in the area posting the job.

Even when you get into a company. Find common ground. Doesn't even have to be your boss. A VP on your floor is a big Yankee fan? Chat baseball. Find out who in the company is an alum of your college. Have lunch. It's the only way to move ahead.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I cannot stress enough how important networking is, as many others have said in this thread. This isn't exactly breaking news, but I dont think young people realize how much it really is who you know. I didn't.

Even internal moves - knowing someone is everything. Every move I've made internally in the company I've been with for 10 years has been a result of someone I had known well. A VP from a different department who was an alum of the same college - we had lunch occasionally. He is accountant by trade and not a systems guy. He needed some systems knowledge a few years ago, and I was who he thought of right away.

I'm moving a new role in March, secured with help from my old customer from years ago who I remained in touch with (occasional lunches), and who has rose up the ranks.

Simply applying internally for jobs that seem appealing doesn't work. Even if you're over qualified. They're nearly always filled by people who know one of the bosses in the area posting the job.

Even when you get into a company. Find common ground. Doesn't even have to be your boss. A VP on your floor is a big Yankee fan? Chat baseball. Find out who in the company is an alum of your college. Have lunch. It's the only way to move ahead.

The bold cannot be stressed enough. I don't know that I would agree with it being your only way to move ahead. However, it definitely gives you the biggest chance to succeed.

 

[Thordic]

I cannot stress enough how important networking is, as many others have said in this thread. This isn't exactly breaking news, but I dont think young people realize how much it really is who you know. I didn't.

Even internal moves - knowing someone is everything. Every move I've made internally in the company I've been with for 10 years has been a result of someone I had known well. A VP from a different department who was an alum of the same college - we had lunch occasionally. He is accountant by trade and not a systems guy. He needed some systems knowledge a few years ago, and I was who he thought of right away.

I'm moving a new role in March, secured with help from my old customer from years ago who I remained in touch with (occasional lunches), and who has rose up the ranks.

Simply applying internally for jobs that seem appealing doesn't work. Even if you're over qualified. They're nearly always filled by people who know one of the bosses in the area posting the job.

Even when you get into a company. Find common ground. Doesn't even have to be your boss. A VP on your floor is a big Yankee fan? Chat baseball. Find out who in the company is an alum of your college. Have lunch. It's the only way to move ahead.

Agree 110%.

Also, take ownership of your damn work. The biggest key to success, IMO. If you don't know how to do something, don't wait for someone else to show you how to do it. Find out how it's done, and do it. Make sure you take responsibility for the work that crosses your desk. It seems simple, but it's a rarely trait than you might think (unless you are in a hyper-competitive environment such as GS, etc).

 

[East Coast Bias]

The bold cannot be stressed enough. I don't know that I would agree with it being your only way to move ahead. However, it definitely gives you the biggest chance to succeed.

Yeah I probably got a little dramatic there with the ONLY way.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Don't know much about law side of the house from a corporate perspective. My buddy said he keeps 2 full extra changes of clothes in his office and he has been doing it for 20 years.

I was doing roughly he same when I was in it.

It's awful.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Hey guys I signed up for a networking event this week hosted at my college,Florida state. Let me know any tips and tricks for networking and making good connections. Thanks!

 

[Crease]

Hey guys I signed up for a networking event this week hosted at my college,Florida state. Let me know any tips and tricks for networking and making good connections. Thanks!

I don't think there is any magic involved: talk to people (lots!), take a genuine interest in what they say, and exchange contact info.

Really, a networking event is the first step (but an important one!) in cultivating useful business contacts.

 

[Raspewtin]

Something I've always pondered

How important is it for an intern to be willing to participate in redundant administrative stuff?

Like, on one hand it's great to show that you're invested in the company's success and you'll do a lot to help your team. But that isn't the kind of work you get to discuss with future employers or even your internship (where you're gunning for full time), and is for the most part a waste of time. What do y'all think

 

[Gardner McKay]

Something I've always pondered

How important is it for an intern to be willing to participate in redundant administrative stuff?

Like, on one hand it's great to show that you're invested in the company's success and you'll do a lot to help your team. But that isn't the kind of work you get to discuss with future employers or even your internship (where you're gunning for full time), and is for the most part a waste of time. What do y'all think

Extremely important if you are hoping to get a full time position with the company after your internship is done.

My first role was with staffing company. I was fresh out of school with a finance degree and working in the sourcing administrator role. It was almost ALL administrative BS. Updating job postings, spreadsheets, etc. For 4 months I buried my head, did it with out a peep and was then moved into a recruiting role. A few months later, a Sr. recruiting role. A year later, an account executive. A few years later, VP of our Home Health division.

I know it can be frustrating, especially when you are right out of school. You want to take on the world to show that you can do it all in hopes of advancing in a rapid manner. Doing what you are given the right way or even improving on it is more important than anything else right now. Own what you are being given and do it the best it has ever been done.

 

[Trxjw]

Extremely important if you are hoping to get a full time position with the company after your internship is done.

My first role was with staffing company. I was fresh out of school with a finance degree and working in the sourcing administrator role. It was almost ALL administrative BS. Updating job postings, spreadsheets, etc. For 4 months I buried my head, did it with out a peep and was then moved into a recruiting role. A few months later, a Sr. recruiting role. A year later, an account executive. A few years later, VP of our Home Health division.

I know it can be frustrating, especially when you are right out of school. You want to take on the world to show that you can do it all in hopes of advancing in a rapid manner. Doing what you are given the right way or even improving on it is more important than anything else right now. Own what you are being given and do it the best it has ever been done.

This. So many interns I've worked with gripe about being given "***** work" and fail to realize that it's all just a test. We want to see who is willing to go the extra mile, and who just wants to come in, do their 9 to 5, and then go home.

 

[highandwide]

In my profession, LinkedIn is a major aspect.

When I was looking for a new job, I would make a list of companies I would work for and try to connect with people in their HR department. I would find recruiters in my field and do the same.

Once you connect: send a thank you message for connecting, say you are interested in the company, ask if there are any opportunities and provide your personal email for them to contact you if so. This is better than just submitting anything online. Also, make sure your email handle is professional. No one wants to email GorillaLover83 (bad example, but you get me).

Who wouldn't want someone to make their job easier? You being proactive with HR personal and recruiters does that. It also helps build your connections.

Search for job fairs in the cities you're interested in moving to, see who's attending and do the same process. Look at who your connections are connected to, but make sure it's relevant to your field.

Don't make the mistake of not being active on LinkedIn, like people's contributions, comment every once in awhile.

My job deals with a lot of networking, so I have ~984 contacts. 20% of which are HR and recruiters.