Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] Jesperi Kotkaniemi signs offersheet with the Hurricanes (1 year, $6.100035M) [Part V]

[uncleben]

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Click to read more...

 

[spockBokk]

Over under of how many more “parts” we get on this thread?

I say at least 3 more.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Over under of how many more “parts” we get on this thread?

I say at least 3 more.

The fact that this is already up to 5 is almost as hilarious as the $20 signing bonus

 

[Gainesvillain]

Such a lose lose for the Habs.

You let him walk and look bad for giving away a recent 3rd overall pick one that in hindsight looks horrendous due to other players available.

That ship already sailed.

By letting him walk you gain $6 million in cap space ($3 million if you only count the difference from what you would have paid with no OS) 1 first round pick, and a 3rd.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

There’s still hundreds of old hockey players he hasn’t been compared to yet for example he’s a lot like Probert

 

[NextYear67]

Holy threads. Imagine an actual good player got sheeted

 

[FF de Mars]

Kotkaniemi wasn't even dominating when he played for Assat Pori last year in Finland, I watched the games on stream and he wasn't a difference maker at all, his team got torched by rivals as he was held scoreless. He didn't look like anything special even in a lesser league, his stickhandling was subpar and he didn't show any playmaking. I think Carolina made a huge mistake offering him such a bloaded offer sheet. Waddell should have read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius instead of doing this deal because it will hurt the Canes more than the Habs. HF fans saying a 1st round pick is not a big deal... what an euphemism! Go ask the SJ Sharks about Karlsson. The Canes are simply not as good as last year, they lost Hamilton and Bean, and now have given up a 1st before even knowing about its value. You are comparing this to a rental but when a contender rents a player they are actually already high in the standings as the season is almost over at the trade deadline. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, ne vendez pas la peau de l'ours avant de l'avoir tué! Next season is a full season, not a covid season. Carolina is taking a huge risk, not a small one.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Bergevin realizing Dvorak (an older, 38-point superstar center) will cost him more than what he’ll get for Kotkaniemi:

Now imagine what it would cost to acquire a Hertl or an Eichel. Rip.

Happy vacations, sucka!

“something something loyalty, dog”

 

[Deam78]

No, because the Canes didn't use a 3rd overall pick to acquire Kotkaniemi. The Habs did. The Canes only used a late 1st and a 3rd to acquire him.

The contract doesn't matter because it's the same for either team.

Basically, the Canes went from zero risk zero reward to high risk high reward
While the Habs went from low risk high reward to high risk high reward

The Canes only paid the same the Leafs did for Foligno (a pure rental). Plus a high salary for one season. For the potential reward for a good 2c for many many years to come. Totally a risk worth taking.

I think you misunderstood.

I was just commenting on people saying the Canes are in win-win with no risk but Habs are lose-lose and totally screwed if they match, but it's the same thing for both team. I even said it's a calculated risk (meaning I agree it's a risk worth taking), but a risk nonetheless.

Yourself said it's the same scenario for both team: high risk, high reward. Same scenario, same player, same contract.

If we want to use you comparison of a rental FOR ONE SEASON, couldn't this apply to the Habs as well? In trading for a high salary pure rental, would you rather pay a 1st+3rd or nothing at all? I'm just saying there is a scenario where the Canes are worse and Habs better off, it's not a total win-win for Canes and lose-lose for Habs, they both have risk/reward.

 

[Jimmyjets]

Kotkaniemi wasn't even dominating when he played for Assat Pori last year in Finland, I watched the games on stream and he wasn't a difference maker at all, his team got torched by rivals as he was held scoreless. He didn't look like anything special even in a lesser league, his stickhandling was subpar and he didn't show any playmaking. I think Carolina made a huge mistake offering him such a bloaded contract. Waddell should have read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius instead of doing this deal because it will hurt the Canes more than the Habs. HF fans saying a 1st round pick is not a big deal... what an euphemism! Go ask the SJ Sharks about Karlsson. The Canes are simply not as good as last year, they lost Hamilton and Bean, and now have given up a 1st before even knowing about its value. You are comparing this to a rental but when a contender rents a player they are actually already high in the standings as the season is almost over at the trade deadline. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, ne vendez pas la peau de l'ours avant de l'avoir tué! Next season is a full season, not a covid season. Carolina is taking a huge risk, not a small one.

I gotta disagree. Carolina is one of the best teams in the NHL. They lost Hamilton but they added DeAngelo. They traded their goalie but improved the position overall with a tandom of Anderson and Rantaa. Adding KK further improves their group up front. Bean out and Bear in is also a pretty even swap IMO.

I don't think this deal really hurts the Canes that badly either way. They get the player and use up some capspace but become a stronger team today or Montreal matches somehow, but needs to trade a player they would rather have kept to be able to make the cap work.

Silver lining is that with the draft being in Montreal, one way or the other this situation likely results in them having more draft picks.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Holy threads. Imagine an actual good player got sheeted

Lmao, seriously.

I get he's a *former* third overall pick, but they all don't end up being stars.

Habs fans are experts on shitty third overall picks.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I know there isn't much of a bases for this since it's so rare, but i feel like if they were going to match the offer they would have by now.

Unless it's another game of pettiness and they match 1 minute before the deadline lol.

 

[Mestaruus]

Kotkaniemi wasn't even dominating when he played for Assat Pori last year in Finland, I watched the games on stream and he wasn't a difference maker at all, his team got torched by rivals as he was held scoreless. He didn't look like anything special even in a lesser league, his stickhandling was subpar and he didn't show any playmaking. I think Carolina made a huge mistake offering him such a bloaded offer sheet. Waddell should have read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius instead of doing this deal because it will hurt the Canes more than the Habs. HF fans saying a 1st round pick is not a big deal... what an euphemism! Go ask the SJ Sharks about Karlsson. The Canes are simply not as good as last year, they lost Hamilton and Bean, and now have given up a 1st before even knowing about its value. You are comparing this to a rental but when a contender rents a player they are actually already high in the standings as the season is almost over at the trade deadline. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, ne vendez pas la peau de l'ours avant de l'avoir tué! Next season is a full season, not a covid season. Carolina is taking a huge risk, not a small one.

He started slowly there and picked up the pace and started producing pretty well with Pori before he left back to NHL. Maybe he had some motivation problems at the start and then realized that if he won't start producing, he will embarrass himself. That was my understanding of his visit in Finland.

 

[FF de Mars]

I gotta disagree. Carolina is one of the best teams in the NHL. They lost Hamilton but they added DeAngelo. They traded their goalie but improved the position overall with a tandom of Anderson and Rantaa. Adding KK further improves their group up front. Bean out and Bear in is also a pretty even swap IMO.

I don't think this deal really hurts the Canes that badly either way. They get the player and use up some capspace but become a stronger team today or Montreal matches somehow, but needs to trade a player they would rather have kept to be able to make the cap work.

Silver lining is that with the draft being in Montreal, one way or the other this situation likely results in them having more draft picks.

Hamilton is a #1 Dman, and he's playing for the Devils next year. The way I see it your division foe just got better and you got worse. This will affect the standings. DeAngelo is far from a #1 Dman and is very flawed in his own zone. As for the other changes in the lineup, the goalies and Bear, we'll have to see how it pans. You add Kotkaniemi but there is no guarantees he doesn't end up on the bottom six. A case could be made that the Canes worsened while other teams in the metro improved. I don't have a crystal ball but I really hope Bergevin doesn't match this.

 

[HabsQC]

I know there isn't much of a bases for this since it's so rare, but i feel like if they were going to match the offer they would have by now.

Unless it's another game of pettiness and they match 1 minute before the deadline lol.

Canes took a whole week before matching for Aho

 

[Taluss]

Over under of how many more “parts” we get on this thread?

Over. I’ll go with 4. I think some hints will be thrown out there closer to Saturday and Habs/ Canes fans will continue to have some never ending lovely discussions

 

[KrisLetAngry]

The fact that this is already up to 5 is almost as hilarious as the $20 signing bonus

I think its more about the lack of hockey entertainment during the offseason.

This is actually some great Drama in the hockey world that tends to be boring.

 

[Price is Wright]

Canes took a whole week before matching for Aho

They said 24 hours after they intended to sign but then waited the seven days to actually match it.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I think its more about the lack of hockey entertainment during the offseason.

This is actually some great Drama in the hockey world that tends to be boring.

Yea that's definitely true as well. This offseason started out pretty exciting, then got boring real quick.

 

[HabsQC]

They said 24 hours after they intended to sign but then waited the seven days to actually match it.

True, but we should expect the same thing from Bergevin. It gives the Canes less time to do something else if he matches.

 

[NotOpie]

There was no plan. The talk about actually wanting the player beforehand is bullshit. It's all trying to save face. They wanted to screw up Montreals future plans (which they did) but they really didn't plan on getting the player.

But yes they should trade Vincent trochek to make room for Kotkaniemi on the second line. We'll give them our second and their third for him.

So you were in the room with Waddell? You have been trying so hard to make your narrative true despite different reports to the contrary. The Canes wanted the player...and yes, there was the revenge factor as the side benefit.

I wrote a novel about why the Hurricanes extended the offer sheet and won't repeat myself, except to say we are now on the 5th thread on the message board talking about a smaller market team....Carolina is eating up the PR.

98% of Canes fans desperately want Montreal to match, they'll never admit it but it's painfully obvious to see in their words.

As a Canes fan, I can tell you, you couldn't be more wrong. There are 2 large groups and one very small group. One group like me thinks it is a great risk to take for a player that we believe fits our system and style (we also have prospects playing for Assat and you have to realize we're aware of JK's play there as well). We also won't be butt hurt if Montreal matches. There's a smaller but noticeable group who truly have no preference as they can see the benefit, the risk, and the opportunity (and opportunity costs) of chasing another player should it not work out. The last group is relatively small. They are worried about the risk of losing the 1st and 3rd for a guy who could be a bust.

None of these groups actually care one iota about the QO of $6.1 million. We've got the money and it's factored in as part of the risk equation.

Just wrapping my head around why this was such a smart acquisition for them.

My first instinct was that it was purely a revenge move, but I've been told that's not true.

Pure hockey move.
Love the player.

Don't have a spot for him, but we'll figure that out later.

Much like drafting, the idea is that you almost always go for the best player available and worry about team/line construction later. Having too much talent is a good problem to have.

Kotkaniemi on the wing will have less defensive responsibility, more opportunities to score, and generally be eased into the Hurricanes system. So yeah, we love the player and we don't give a shit about how is poor development to date would have others skeptical of his ability to play on the left side.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Over under of how many more “parts” we get on this thread?

I say at least 3 more.

Maybe 3 more before the announcement. At least 5 afterwards.

 

[flying v 604]

Lmao, seriously.

I get he's a *former* third overall pick, but they all don't end up being stars.

Habs fans are experts on shitty third overall picks.

I think one of the reasons this thread is so popular is seeing KK supporters who defended him to the point of saying he was a better pick than Brady or Quinn and that he's young and still saw him as a 60-70+ points guy, now are instead bashing him and using the same things they defended against him.
TBF emotions can often blur reality but some of these takes are literally a complete 180 from comments made a day before the OS.
The one thing I think people are fixating on too much is the QO. If next season he's not worthy still of 6 million I doubt his agent would tell him to take another one-year deal over a cheaper multi-year contract. It was an inflated offer and was done to get him for cheaper than the cost of trading for him. Next season unless he explodes his agent would be an idiot to turn down say a 5 year deal at fair market value for another 1 year 6 million deal.

 

[sheed36]

I know there isn't much of a bases for this since it's so rare, but i feel like if they were going to match the offer they would have by now.

Unless it's another game of pettiness and they match 1 minute before the deadline lol.

Or maybe MB is gonna go right to the last minute before deciding to match or not because he's now talking to other GM's trying to find a replacement center for KK first before deciding if they're gonna match or not.

If they can't make a trade they likely match but if he can acquire a replacement center it's most likely take a hike KK.

 

[TheFamousFart]

I think one of the reasons this thread is so popular is seeing KK supporters who defended him to the point of saying he was a better pick than Brady or Quinn and that he's young and still saw him as a 60-70+ points guy, now are instead bashing him and using the same things they defended against him.
TBF emotions can often blur reality but some of these takes are literally a complete 180 from comments made a day before the OS.
The one thing I think people are fixating on too much is the QO. If next season he's not worthy still of 6 million I doubt his agent would tell him to take another one-year deal over a cheaper multi-year contract. It was an inflated offer and was done to get him for cheaper than the cost of trading for him. Next season unless he explodes his agent would be an idiot to turn down say a 5 year deal at fair market value for another 1 year 6 million deal.

Exactly! WELL SAID!