Post-Game Talk: Caps wake up in the 3rd win 3-0

[DRW204]

In hindsight we needed that upgrade on 2nd pairing D way more than another forward. Tanev there to push down Pionk would look so good right now.

A lot of this stems from what to me looks like the a disagreement between the GM and the Coach and Coach getting his way at every step. The GM said to start off the season that Perfetti would get a chance to run as the 2C, yet that happened for like 3 games and the coach never went back to it again. Chevy keeps talking about Heinola every chance he gets yet he is noway near the lineup. I wonder if Cole had been given a real run at 2C then maybe we could have had an internal solution for that role and use that asset to acquire Tanev instead.

First it was Maurice and Chevy don't agree. Then sprinkle in some Dave Lowry there. Now Bowness and Chevy disagreement.

How about the possibility that to many ppl on here overemphasize or take off-the-hip comments from months ago as gospel?

 

[ecolad]

Why do you think that is? At this point in think it may be more worthwhile to discuss reasons for their inconsistent and lackluster play rather than just bitching about it (that's not directed at you)

Some of the poor play seems to be mental, some seems to be lack of effort at times. But again, why? I find it hard to believe that the team as a whole just doesn't give a f***. I base that on the fact that they DID give a f*** for such a long period of time. What could have happened to change that?

There could be multiple causes, but I don't think it's a lack of talent

Have you considered that this particular roster may simply not be well suited to this particular type of play? They seem to be making the necessary effort so it`s got nothing to do with that. Imo this roster has made made a commitment to play this very restrictive "Jet`s hockey" all season and with great success, BUT they are unable to elevate and play at the required consistency level as competition toughens . Many of our forwards are not physically or attribute matched to this "puck pursuit" game and have never before tried to create offence strictly from forecheck and turnovers. And it`s certainly not just Perfetti, I think it applies to Ehlers and Connor for certain and probably Scheifele himself. So despite this group trying to play this way, there continue to be glaringly apparent situations where it does not work well.

As to what changed, imo it was two things. Firstly,as inferred above,the Jet`s are simply not keeping up with the refinement/improved execution of other teams. I personally don`t think that they realistically can given the misfit with their attributes/strengths/weakness`s, despite their legitimate efforts. Secondly, it seems to me that Bones has himself changed the message as to how he wants to play "Jet`s hockey"somewhere in the recent past.. I think it was @WolfHouse who correctly pointed out that the forecheck has changed from an aggressive 2:1:2 to a a 2:2:1, with only one forward trying to disrupt. Inexplicable to me for sure for a team that tries to generate offence strictly from the forecheck and turnovers. I`m not sure exactly when this first started but it`s something to look for going forward.

There are many differing styles of hockey that can produce winning records provided they are executed precisely and in an elite manner. But this roster cannot play this style at the elite level required , and it`s got little to nothing to do with talent.

 

[JetsFan815]

First it was Maurice and Chevy don't agree. Then sprinkle in some Dave Lowry there. Now Bowness and Chevy disagreement.

How about the possibility that to many ppl on here overemphasize or take off-the-hip comments from months ago as gospel?

Well all we can do is go by information that is publicly stated. All I know is Chevy said that he wants to try Cole and the 2nd line C. Bones started that way but abandoned it after 3 games (when they had decent metrics at that) only to never return to it. I don't think 3 games is what Chevy had in mind when he said Cole will get a run at 2C.

Chevy has basically given Rick everything he wanted this season... gave him a 2C that can win faceoffs eventhough Chevy stated he wanted Cole tried in that role and when Vlad was doing a pretty decent job in the role. Then Chevy got him a 2nd line RW to back him up on sending Perfetti down the lineup.

I am just taking Chevy at his word and I don't believe he has any reason to lie in those comments.

 

[Buffdog]

Have you considered that this particular roster may simply not be well suited to this particular type of play? They seem to be making the necessary effort so it`s got nothing to do with that. Imo this roster has made made a commitment to play this very restrictive "Jet`s hockey" all season and with great success, BUT they are unable to elevate and play at the required consistency level as competition toughens . Many of our forwards are not physically or attribute matched to this "puck pursuit" game and have never before tried to create offence strictly from forecheck and turnovers. And it`s certainly not just Perfetti, I think it applies to Ehlers and Connor for certain and probably Scheifele himself. So despite this group trying to play this way, there continue to be glaringly apparent situations where it does not work well.

As to what changed, imo it was two things. Firstly,as inferred above,the Jet`s are simply not keeping up with the refinement/improved execution of other teams. I personally don`t think that they realistically can given the misfit with their attributes/strengths/weakness`s, despite their legitimate efforts. Secondly, it seems to me that Bones has himself changed the message as to how he wants to play "Jet`s hockey"somewhere in the recent past.. I think it was @WolfHouse who correctly pointed out that the forecheck has changed from an aggressive 2:1:2 to a a 2:2:1, with only one forward trying to disrupt. Inexplicable to me for sure for a team that tries to generate offence strictly from the forecheck and turnovers. I`m not sure exactly when this first started but it`s something to look for going forward.

There are many differing styles of hockey that can produce winning records provided they are executed precisely and in an elite manner. But this roster cannot play this style at the elite level required , and it`s got little to nothing to do with talent.

Interesting ideas. Do you think that it's overall team speed that makes them unsuitable to play this style? If so, is it just that other teams have elevated their play vs the first half and now we can't keep up?

 

[raideralex99]

Have you considered that this particular roster may simply not be well suited to this particular type of play? They seem to be making the necessary effort so it`s got nothing to do with that. Imo this roster has made made a commitment to play this very restrictive "Jet`s hockey" all season and with great success, BUT they are unable to elevate and play at the required consistency level as competition toughens . Many of our forwards are not physically or attribute matched to this "puck pursuit" game and have never before tried to create offence strictly from forecheck and turnovers. And it`s certainly not just Perfetti, I think it applies to Ehlers and Connor for certain and probably Scheifele himself. So despite this group trying to play this way, there continue to be glaringly apparent situations where it does not work well.

I agree Jets are not a physical team ... the first round is the toughest because the refs call less penalties there's more hitting and if you can't handle it or dish it out you lose the majority of the time. IMO Jets are missing a power forward or 2 ... between Connor, Ehlers and Perfetti I would say 1 or 2 have to go along with getting a bigger tougher defence which means 1 or 2 of these D-men will have to go Poink, Demelo or Schmidt.
The good thing is the Jets have the goaltending so there is always hope.

 

[raideralex99]

Interesting ideas. Do you think that it's overall team speed that makes them unsuitable to play this style? If so, is it just that other teams have elevated their play vs the first half and now we can't keep up?

The Jets are 9-4-1 vs the top 7 teams ... Jets are #8.
The Ranger game showed the Jets can elevated their play ... its the physically part I'm worried about.

 

[NA Hockey]

Sure the oldest most experienced coach in the NHL panicked after 3 games haha

That’s a fair point and panicked may have been the wrong word choice. But with pressure to win and Villardi’s injury, the plan got scrapped without giving it a chance to succeed or develop.

 

[raideralex99]

Here is an interesting stat about the 8 playoff teams in the West.
Games in March
Central
Avs 13 games
Stars 13 games
Preds 13 games (only one B2B game in the last 2 months and they lost it)
Pacific
Canucks 12 games
Oilers 15 games
King 14 games
Vegas 14 games

Not using this as an excuse but the Winnipeg Jets have 16 games in March so who is at a disadvantage?

 

[LowLefty]

I agree Jets are not a physical team ... the first round is the toughest because the refs call less penalties there's more hitting and if you can't handle it or dish it out you lose the majority of the time. IMO Jets are missing a power forward or 2 ... between Connor, Ehlers and Perfetti I would say 1 or 2 have to go along with getting a bigger tougher defence which means 1 or 2 of these D-men will have to go Poink, Demelo or Schmidt.
The good thing is the Jets have the goaltending so there is always hope.

I remember the Caps coach after we beat them a couple of weeks ago -
Paraphrased "They are big, strong and fast". The Rangers coach (after we beat them) didn't pile on the praise but he talked about why the Jets were one of the best teams in the league and contending.
We can play the type of game that has the league hating to play us - but we might not have the endurance (or maybe the desire to be consistent in playing that style?).
We have a great mix of skill and physical - and when we use both, we are a very difficult team to play against.
I don't know what is going on right now - but it is not the makeup of the team - probably more to do with a late season wear down.
They'll need to get their game back up to speed - end of story.

 

[KingBogo]

I remember the Caps coach after we beat them a couple of weeks ago -
Paraphrased "They are big, strong and fast". The Rangers coach (after we beat them) didn't pile on the praise but he talked about why the Jets were one of the best teams in the league and contending.
We can play the type of game that has the league hating to play us - but we might not have the endurance (or maybe the desire to be consistent in playing that style?).
We have a great mix of skill and physical - and when we use both, we are a very difficult team to play against.
I don't know what is going on right now - but it is not the makeup of the team - probably more to do with a late season wear down.
They'll need to get their game back up to speed - end of story.

Yeah, I'm not joining the panic parade quite yet. They look like a completely gassed team to me. At least with an afternoon game yesterday, they got home early and rested as best they could today. I think we see a reset this home stand, and things get back to normal.

 

[Buffdog]

Here is an interesting stat about the 8 playoff teams in the West.
Games in March
Central
Avs 13 games
Stars 13 games
Preds 13 games (only one B2B game in the last 2 months and they lost it)
Pacific
Canucks 12 games
Oilers 15 games
King 14 games
Vegas 14 games

Not using this as an excuse but the Winnipeg Jets have 16 games in March so who is at a disadvantage?

Take a look at the number of 2 day rest periods also for those teams

Dallas had a similar schedule to our march schedule in February and only won 6 of 13 games. Similar for the Avs in December

In addition to just fatigue, the Jets schedule hasn't allowed for any practices to fix issues that have come up

Counter argument to the "fatigue" thing is that the Jets looked like dogshit coming out of rhe ASB when they ought to have been fully rested

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Instead of Chrome I'm using Brave Browser for Android when browsing HFBoards.
Edit:... and getting better results.

I downloaded it and it does work better for this forum. Thanks for the tip. And no ads with the free version....so far.

 

[DRW204]

Well all we can do is go by information that is publicly stated. All I know is Chevy said that he wants to try Cole and the 2nd line C. Bones started that way but abandoned it after 3 games (when they had decent metrics at that) only to never return to it. I don't think 3 games is what Chevy had in mind when he said Cole will get a run at 2C.

Chevy has basically given Rick everything he wanted this season... gave him a 2C that can win faceoffs eventhough Chevy stated he wanted Cole tried in that role and when Vlad was doing a pretty decent job in the role. Then Chevy got him a 2nd line RW to back him up on sending Perfetti down the lineup.

I am just taking Chevy at his word and I don't believe he has any reason to lie in those comments.

You ever say things months/ years ago and shit changes and have to pivot from your original stance or view on things?

Since perfetti was drafted they traded for and re-signed Stastny, traded & tried to sign PLD, signed Namestnikov, traded for Monahan. All players who played C over Perfetti. but some small comments means perfetti at C forever and always? Do you think the GM and coach staff are not talking about players and where they see fit? Maybe they revisit it next year, but clearly this season when the team actually got on the ice they didn't like him at C. They went with Names (which btw is when perfetti was actually productive) and later the GM moved a 1st+ for Monahan relatively swiftly after Lindholm was dealt. Seems to me they didn't view him as a 2C and wanted high-priced upgrades over both players. his game at wing has been in the dumps for months so unsure if it'd have been easier/different at C.

& heinola..... Im sure Chevy still says nice things about him publicly what else is he going to say? Maybe you can consider that lying.

his situation was easily predictable in 2021. The same GM went out and brought in Dillon and Schmidt, then additionally had Stanley coming off a solid Cdn division season, as well Samberg chomping at the bit who eventually took over Stanley. So personally I'd chalk whatever comment you're referencing as GM-speak, the transactions and other player's performances, along with his own and injury, made it unlikely that heinola was going to be in the lineup.

 

[ecolad]

Interesting ideas. Do you think that it's overall team speed that makes them unsuitable to play this style? If so, is it just that other teams have elevated their play vs the first half and now we can't keep up?

No, its not that we can`t keep up with other teams, it`s that we can`t execute "Jet`s hockey" as quickly and efficiently as might a roster made up with players of different attributes. Let me put this another way - Bones did not come here with a view to assessing available players strengths/weakness`s and formulating a game style or team identity based upon that. He came here with a fixed team identity in mind and has selected players who best fill roles in such scheme. And of course the scheme cannot execute at an elite level.

 

[surixon]

Have you considered that this particular roster may simply not be well suited to this particular type of play? They seem to be making the necessary effort so it`s got nothing to do with that. Imo this roster has made made a commitment to play this very restrictive "Jet`s hockey" all season and with great success, BUT they are unable to elevate and play at the required consistency level as competition toughens . Many of our forwards are not physically or attribute matched to this "puck pursuit" game and have never before tried to create offence strictly from forecheck and turnovers. And it`s certainly not just Perfetti, I think it applies to Ehlers and Connor for certain and probably Scheifele himself. So despite this group trying to play this way, there continue to be glaringly apparent situations where it does not work well.

As to what changed, imo it was two things. Firstly,as inferred above,the Jet`s are simply not keeping up with the refinement/improved execution of other teams. I personally don`t think that they realistically can given the misfit with their attributes/strengths/weakness`s, despite their legitimate efforts. Secondly, it seems to me that Bones has himself changed the message as to how he wants to play "Jet`s hockey"somewhere in the recent past.. I think it was @WolfHouse who correctly pointed out that the forecheck has changed from an aggressive 2:1:2 to a a 2:2:1, with only one forward trying to disrupt. Inexplicable to me for sure for a team that tries to generate offence strictly from the forecheck and turnovers. I`m not sure exactly when this first started but it`s something to look for going forward.

There are many differing styles of hockey that can produce winning records provided they are executed precisely and in an elite manner. But this roster cannot play this style at the elite level required , and it`s got little to nothing to do with talent.

Well said. I've long thought that given the teams preference to draft high IQ players that more of a Detroit Redwing 2000s possesion type system would be more in line with the types of talent we have drafted.

But this org has largely been helll bent on trying to play an aggressive forecheck/crash and bang type scheme. They like the Lowry line cause it can play that scheme but don't really draft the high end talent to excel playing that scheme.

But also unsure why we changed our forecheck scheme.

 

[10Ducky10]

The Jets need to wake up because NSH isn't that far behind. They are 5 points back and play us once.

The Jets have a 4 game road trip that starts April 6th in Minny...9th in NSH, 11th in Dallas and April 13th in Colorado.
This road trip will determine where the Jets finish in the standings.

 

[Jet]

All I know is if we think the Jets are just going the flip the switch and everything will be peachy keen for the playoffs we will be horribly disappointed, starting against the Oilers we need to see better play with results.

I didn't see a lot wrong wth the Jets game against the caps. Hot goalie, ran out of gas.

There are definitely things to work on, for sure.

 

[bustamente]

I didn't see a lot wrong wth the Jets game against the caps. Hot goalie, ran out of gas.

There are definitely things to work on, for sure.

They played much better unfortunately didn't get the result we wanted, but now comes the stretch drive and playing better is just not good enough without wins attached.

 

[Jet]

They played much better unfortunately didn't get the result we wanted, but now comes the stretch drive and playing better is just not good enough without wins attached.

Why though?

I'd much rather the team is playing the right way heading into the playoffs than winning games if I had to choose

 

[bustamente]

Why though?

I'd much rather the team is playing the right way heading into the playoffs than winning games if I had to choose

I just think for the psyche of the team playing better and winning have to go hand in hand late in the year, playing better and losing can grind and deflate you

 

[sipowicz]

Monahan needs to get Hayes'd so we can try Perfetti Namest Toffoli with Ehlers back on line 1 imo.

What exactly does Perfetti offer aside from getting pushed off the puck?

 

[NA Hockey]

What exactly does Perfetti offer aside from getting pushed off the puck?

I will give it to you, you never miss a chance to take a pot shot at him. I am convinced that you think he did something to you or your family. Either that or you are just as miserable in real life as you appear here.

He is better at board battles than half the forward group, has more points than half the forward group, his corsi numbers are at the top of the team as are his xG% and fenwick. He gets pucks out in the d zone better than every current top 6 winger. But ya you, the great Sip, decided you don't like him so you deride him at every opportunity. With so many things to complain about with this org you pick the 22 year old just getting started to incessantly go after.

It's really not that you come with criticism amongst the discussions , they all deserve some criticism or critique, it's the pot shots at the same couple of players (even when they play well) while you give a pass to so many passengers and floaters most of the time

 

[WolfHouse]

That’s a fair point and panicked may have been the wrong word choice. But with pressure to win and Villardi’s injury, the plan got scrapped without giving it a chance to succeed or develop.

I suspect bones saw that perfetti already put massive pressure on himself and that 2c role was just too much for now...

 

[sipowicz]

I will give it to you, you never miss a chance to take a pot shot at him. I am convinced that you think he did something to you or your family. Either that or you are just as miserable in real life as you appear here.

He is better at board battles than half the forward group, has more points than half the forward group, his corsi numbers are at the top of the team as are his xG% and fenwick. He gets pucks out in the d zone better than every current top 6 winger. But ya you, the great Sip, decided you don't like him so you deride him at every opportunity. With so many things to complain about with this org you pick the 22 year old just getting started to incessantly go after.

It's really not that you come with criticism amongst the discussions , they all deserve some criticism or critique, it's the pot shots at the same couple of players (even when they play well) while you give a pass to so many passengers and floaters most of the time

guess the coaching staff know a litte bit more than both of us when they have Perfetan sitting in the press box huh!?

 

[JetsFan815]

You ever say things months/ years ago and shit changes and have to pivot from your original stance or view on things?

Since perfetti was drafted they traded for and re-signed Stastny, traded & tried to sign PLD, signed Namestnikov, traded for Monahan. All players who played C over Perfetti. but some small comments means perfetti at C forever and always? Do you think the GM and coach staff are not talking about players and where they see fit? Maybe they revisit it next year, but clearly this season when the team actually got on the ice they didn't like him at C. They went with Names (which btw is when perfetti was actually productive) and later the GM moved a 1st+ for Monahan relatively swiftly after Lindholm was dealt. Seems to me they didn't view him as a 2C and wanted high-priced upgrades over both players. his game at wing has been in the dumps for months so unsure if it'd have been easier/different at C.

& heinola..... Im sure Chevy still says nice things about him publicly what else is he going to say? Maybe you can consider that lying.

his situation was easily predictable in 2021. The same GM went out and brought in Dillon and Schmidt, then additionally had Stanley coming off a solid Cdn division season, as well Samberg chomping at the bit who eventually took over Stanley. So personally I'd chalk whatever comment you're referencing as GM-speak, the transactions and other player's performances, along with his own and injury, made it unlikely that heinola was going to be in the lineup.

In preseason, Chevy came out and said they wanted to give Cole a run at 2C. Do you think 3 games is what he had in mind when he came out and made that statement? I am sure GM and the coach talk but since we are not privy to those conversations I can only assume based on what they have said publicly. I very much doubt Chevy was satisfied with the 3 game run that Cole got at C after he made it clear in his preseason presser that that's where he'd play (note he never made such an unequivocal statement about Vilardi playing C of which there was some speculation). My guess is Chevy would have preferred to see him get a longer look at 2C but let the coach do his job and didn't impose much esp when the team was winning. I don't know what the harm could have been to give him another run at 2C before spending assets on an external solution, worst case he's not a fit and you trade for Monahan/Lindholm. Rossi is smaller than Perfetti and is playing C for the Wild.