Post-Game Talk: Capitals 2, Oilers 1 (SO)

[rboomercat90]

And I won't be surprised, if this continues, that Connor will do the same in maybe a year's time... or two. I really don't think he's injured physically at all. I think he's just gotten beat down mentally and emotionally having to carry this team on his back and is frustrated and exhausted. He looked that way in the playoffs too. The floating around, taking shortcuts and cheating for offence has been in his game for a while now and that's a sign of frustration and heavy burden of being the guy that basically has to produce most of the team's goals.

Connor better get used to carrying teams on his back. Whether it’s here or elsewhere. This is what happens when you’re going to be making 2 million dollars a year more than anybody else in the league in a cap system. His situation is going to be the same regardless of where he’s playing.

 

[McFlyingV]

naturalstattrick.com is basically the only advanced stats site left.

GA/GA is on nhl.com, but it's under Plus-Minus and is weirdly separated into Team GF/GA and Team PPGF/PPGA.

Corsica.hockey is still a good site too.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And I won't be surprised, if this continues, that Connor will do the same in maybe a year's time... or two. I really don't think he's injured physically at all. I think he's just gotten beat down mentally and emotionally having to carry this team on his back and is frustrated and exhausted. He looked that way in the playoffs too. The floating around, taking shortcuts and cheating for offence has been in his game for a while now and that's a sign of frustration and heavy burden of being the guy that basically has to produce most of the team's goals.

If he walks after cashing in on the deal that he does he is a weak human being. If he cared about winning first and foremost he would've taken less as would've Draisaitl. If the cap doesn't go up I hope that they enjoy watching playoff hockey at home. If the two of them left even $1 million AAV each on the table that would've made the GM's job easier the next year or two. They wanted to get paid full price so they are now on the hook to drag this team into the playoffs of look like goats if we don't get in.

11 goals between them last season. Was it really a good idea to bank on them producing this season?

Neither looked out of place in the playoffs so I don't think that it was a bad bet. The unfortunate thing is that Slepy started the season injured and Drake has been hurt a lot since the season has started.

Ideally, we would have a pest IMO. A player like Kadri/Gallagher/Marchand/Burrows in his prime. All those players make life very hard on opposing players because of their motors. We aren't going to be able to pick up top players lie that but lesser versions would be nice.

We could use a player like that for sure.

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't catch the reason Lucic blew his top. Still though not a great thing for him to do. He's a very watched player and any NHL jurisprudence can escalate. Glad he didn't take it further. I thought it was pretty close to his keg just going off there. This is a player the NHL will suspend given any chance to do so. Lucic isn't in Boston anymore. I say that because the Bruins get away with more there.

Someone has to have the balls to say something. Maroon was also chirping the refs and telling them to **** off. So Looch wasn't the only Oilers whose blood was boiling there.

absolutely. I understand that point, but as supposed intelligent human beings/hockey players I feel Connor and Drai should be able to ration out the logic that taking such a large portion of the cap will mean they are unlikely to get quality help anytime soon and will have to roll the dice that the current help is sufficient. And based on last year I think they should have been able to extrapolate that there was not that much SUSTAINABLE help and that they were the ones that really carried the team. I think it was foolish and a bit cocky of them to think that they would be to continue to dominate the league with such little help. Teams are figuring out how to neutralize their effectiveness to a certain degree. Connor already saw that in the playoffs. He should have known better.

They put themselves over the team with those deals IMO, I understand why, but they had better not be *****ing if this team struggles the next couple of seasons because that is a side effect of them cashing in.

Connor better get used to carrying teams on his back. Whether it’s here or elsewhere. This is what happens when you’re going to be making 2 million dollars a year more than anybody else in the league in a cap system. His situation is going to be the same regardless of where he’s playing.

Exactly.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Chia's negotiation skills are the orgs biggest issue. He rarely brings in bad players, he just gives away NMC too freely, pays too much and often doesn't get value in trades.

The 3 contracts last summer really highlighted that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The problem is, besides drafting these assets it's fairly hard to come across them. Most of the depth scorers you see in the league getting traded are due to the fact they are struggling, or their contracts are too high(which we cannot afford to take on). In order for Chia to get help, he is going to have to deal picks. Then, if the players he acquires don't work out, you're out the draft picks to, and we have essentially screwed ourselves. We need guys like Kassian,Slep, and Caggiula to step up in a big way or this season is toast.

If that's the case the season is toast because banking on Kass, slep, Cagg, to step up and score is not even a halfbaked scheme. Its a scheme that had no chance of succeeding They never have established scoring at this level. None of the bottom 8 we are courting has. Then Jokinen, who doesn't need a punchline, is scratched for the 3rd time last night and he has zero goals. This being the biggest *weapon* Chia obtained last season which turns out to be a dull pencil. Then Ryan Strome. my lord. Theres no team in the league, anyone, that had worse acquisitions or additions this offseason.


How anybody can even remotely support Chia at this point is mysterious.

Blaming this on McDAvid, and Drai, nah, this is all Chia, all day.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's weird, but even though Maroon has a respectable amount of goals, I'm finding the same thing with him. I've noticed several times this season where he's skating into the offensive zone with the puck along his boards, and rather than cutting in and crashing to the net, he just elects to skate towards the corner instead.

Our big players just aren't playing big anymore.

People keep saying things like team is improving, playing better. We have, unfortunately, a very real chance that McD and Drai eventually come to a conclusion this season that the tools just aren't in the shed. That the cupboard isn't stocked this season and that anything they do will not equate to a winning or playoff club. If that realization occurs and is reflected on the ice, and its probably thought of already, then look out. This is already a nose dive this early in the season.

people can blame the top line, the topsix or the top 4 d all they want, or Talbot or officiating in every GDT. Chia is at fault for all this. This is the team of his making now, this is who wanted. Theres barely a player left that preceded him. These are his guys.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So according to comments in the thread people wanted Jokinen here? Seriously? Why. Old player with knee problems. Past it. As with Jagr, and these two shouldn't even be compared, there sure is a fixation with hasbeens that are just not good players anymore. This fanbase and Calgary seem to love em. I prefer vets that are hitting or near peak now. The Oilers hardly ever land those. Just basically additions that could be had on the waiver wire. Wasn't Strome waived too last season? Or close to it. I gave this guy a dozen games here but what a complete non entity of a player. how long before he's a healthy scratch here? he would be already if the org had any depth.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

So according to comments in the thread people wanted Jokinen here? Seriously? Why. Old player with knee problems. Past it. As with Jagr, and these two shouldn't even be compared, there sure is a fixation with hasbeens that are just not good players anymore. This fanbase and Calgary seem to love em. I prefer vets that are hitting or near peak now. The Oilers hardly ever land those. Just basically additions that could be had on the waiver wire. Wasn't Strome waived too last season? Or close to it. I gave this guy a dozen games here but what a complete non entity of a player. how long before he's a healthy scratch here? he would be already if the org had any depth.

No need to make stuff up to crap on the team and its players

BTW-Weren't you a big POS fan? I honestly can't remember but I seem to think that was the case. What's your take on him continually crapping on the Oilers every chance that he gets?

 

[Drivesaitl]

No need to make stuff up to crap on the team and its players

BTW-Weren't you a big POS fan? I honestly can't remember but I seem to think that was the case. What's your take on him continually crapping on the Oilers every chance that he gets?

I had honestly thought Strome had been waived at some point. Almost anybody in the hockey world considers him an outright bust. Theres just not enough game there. This guy won't even be in the league next season imo. You need more of a Niche in this league than Strome has found.

How about my take on Pouliot who I felt was an undermotivated bum? heh. But at least that guy has talent and cans score some goals when half motivated. Trouble is he was an inconsistent floater. Did I ever call that one. Got a lot of flak for it here as well. Attitudinally Pouliot was a bad addition and I figured as much. Only place he ever played near his potential was on a NY team that wouldn't permit him to do any less.

POS was a different situation, and had some success in LA early and then fell off the map. I was cheering for him out of hope, because he was here and those were dismal times and the club could use any help it could get. It didn't work out and his mental state ultimately didn't work out. he didn't pull out, he nosedived I think. . It appears he let his fathers abuse shape him to the detriment of his hockey career and livelihood.

hey, with mental health you can never really tell. Look at a guy like Theoren Fleury (I'm not comparing the players for an instant) that guy got all his pro hockey, or most of it done and had a damn solid career before the wheels fell off. its unpredictable. The difference is sight unseen internal resilience. Some people have more backbone, simple as that.

The player, POS, could score some goals, the person was f***ed up and apparently still has issues. Turns out tambo was right letting him loose. I didn't agree at the time.

My take now is POS is a POS.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just another little bit. In assessing pro players that have baggage I often defer to:

Player has made it this far, to the top league in the world, so they must have been able to exercise some control over their mental health or other life challenges. So whether it be a Kassian, a Probert, even a Boogaard, you hope they have it together, as a fan of hockey you want to believe that, so that in pro sports benefit of doubt is granted because its a pressure packed environment and you figure if someone was crumbling somebody would spot it.

I dunno. As you know I've always been caught up with that aspect andalso as it befits my career the psychological aspects are always interesting.

Spinner Spencer, I always said was my first awakening to the darker world of pro hockey, the guys that fall off, and then free fall. Fascinating story to anyone that doesn't know it;

https://thehockeywriters.com/spinning-out-of-control-the-short-violent-life-of-spinner-spencer/

btw I watched that game on HNIC that night way back then and sat stunned like anybody else as the news of the fathers shooting hit the nation. Real life stories are seldom this unforgettable.




Anyway that's really OT, but some interesting stuff out there for people to look at.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Lucic is on pace for the same amount of points as last year, without much help from the PP, he has been much better at 5on5 this year, and that's not even up for debate.

He's been better 5in5 this year.
A little quicker, I think.
Still mostly a perimeter player, but better. He can still show his power game now and then but not often enough.
My faveorite:
Sometimes he throws out the dumbest passes in the world. It's almost comical. He'll do great work on the boards to recover the puck, then just no look it right on the opponent's tape.
In the Oilers' zone.
He does this less this year but he still does it.
It's almost as good as the Russell line change controlled break out.

 

[NeverForget06]

All of our problems aside, solid performance by LB!

Remember that game last year when we started "the monster" against Ottawa and he literally couldn't stop a shot??

Add backup goaltending to the list of improvements. Now if only we could address our holes

 

[CycloneSweep]

All of our problems aside, solid performance by LB!

Remember that game last year when we started "the monster" against Ottawa and he literally couldn't stop a shot??

Add backup goaltending to the list of improvements. Now if only we could address our holes

Short memory. Do you not Remeber his only other start this year? 5 goals on 21 shots

 

[NeverForget06]

Short memory. Do you not Remeber his only other start this year? 5 goals on 21 shots

Sure. Against the Canes. First goal was soft. From what I remember all of the others were defensive miscues where he faced odd man rushes or opportunities in or near the slot

 

[MaxR11]

If he walks after cashing in on the deal that he does he is a weak human being. If he cared about winning first and foremost he would've taken less as would've Draisaitl. If the cap doesn't go up I hope that they enjoy watching playoff hockey at home. If the two of them left even $1 million AAV each on the table that would've made the GM's job easier the next year or two. They wanted to get paid full price so they are now on the hook to drag this team into the playoffs of look like goats if we don't get in.


They put themselves over the team with those deals IMO, I understand why, but they had better not be *****ing if this team struggles the next couple of seasons because that is a side effect of them cashing in.
.

I totally agree. I was the only one of my friends and people I knew that was really disappointed and pissed off about first Connor taking as much as he did and then eventually Chia signing Drai to as much as he did. I remember people saying we'll be fine and that's the cost of retaining those players for a the best part of their careers. Especially heard a lot of that on the radio (1260 and 630ched). I was basically one of the only dissenters of the deals and texted in my thoughts and was chewed out by the hosts and other listeners. I definitely thought it was partly them putting themselves ahead of the success of the team or being overly confident that they would be able to continue to dominate like last year. They are seemingly eating some crow now. The smart thing for Connor to have done was to take 9.7 mil/yr. He makes so much in endorsements etc. I do wonder how much the NHLPA had to do with the final number Connor got though.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I totally agree. I was the only one of my friends and people I knew that was really disappointed and pissed off about first Connor taking as much as he did and then eventually Chia signing Drai to as much as he did. I remember people saying we'll be fine and that's the cost of retaining those players for a the best part of their careers. Especially heard a lot of that on the radio (1260 and 630ched). I was basically one of the only dissenters of the deals and texted in my thoughts and was chewed out by the hosts and other listeners. I definitely thought it was partly them putting themselves ahead of the success of the team or being overly confident that they would be able to continue to dominate like last year. They are seemingly eating some crow now. The smart thing for Connor to have done was to take 9.7 mil/yr. He makes so much in endorsements etc. I do wonder how much the NHLPA had to do with the final number Connor got though.

I dont think the NHLPA really cares, all it does is take money away from other members, so it doesn't make a difference, the NHLPA doesn't end up getting more money cause McDavid took more.

 

[MaxR11]

I dont think the NHLPA really cares, all it does is take money away from other members, so it doesn't make a difference, the NHLPA doesn't end up getting more money cause McDavid took more.

They do care. From what I heard they need someone like Connor who's at the top of the pyramid in salary to make as much as possible because there's a trickle down effect. If connor only makes 9 mil then someone who may have signed for 6-7 mil when connor makes 12.5 will only get 4-5 mil. it's all relative.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They do care. From what I heard they need someone like Connor who's at the top of the pyramid in salary to make as much as possible because there's a trickle down effect. If connor only makes 9 mil then someone who may have signed for 6-7 mil when connor makes 12.5 will only get 4-5 mil. it's all relative.

Except in a Salary cap league that is split 50/50 with revenue, all it does it take money away from lower tier players, and in the end the PA still gets the same cut.

Connor making more isn't going to increase the salary cap.

 

[t0nedeff]

Mclellan needs to change the lines. How much longer are we going to go seeing barely any goals per game before he realizes it might be indicative of his line choices. He literally only tested the 3 center model once this entire year for like a period and a half its ridiculous. He gave the new lines no time to gain any ground or chemistry but will give the same tired first line half a year before he realizes they need to be split up atleast for a while.

 

[MaxR11]

Except in a Salary cap league that is split 50/50 with revenue, all it does it take money away from lower tier players, and in the end the PA still gets the same cut.

Connor making more isn't going to increase the salary cap.

What you say makes sense. But that's essentially just what I heard so called "experts" on the tv and radio talk about before Connor signed.... that the PA would want Connor to take as much as he can. Not in the know about the salary stuff and the PA myself.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Mclellan needs to change the lines. How much longer are we going to go seeing barely any goals per game before he realizes it might be indicative of his line choices. He literally only tested the 3 center model once this entire year for like a period and a half its ridiculous. He gave the new lines no time to gain any ground or chemistry but will give the same tired first line half a year before he realizes they need to be split up atleast for a while.

I agree with you, in theory, the problem is we don't have enough wingers with any offensive ability.
Rather than spreading the offense over three lines, the result could very well be dragging down every line.
Personally, I'd try it anyway. It's not like that first line's scoring anyway. Can always shorten the bench in the third and put Drai and McDavid together in third periods.

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

What you say makes sense. But that's essentially just what I heard so called "experts" on the tv and radio talk about before Connor signed.... that the PA would want Connor to take as much as he can. Not in the know about the salary stuff and the PA myself.

Yep. Heard the same, and it makes sense.

 

[McCombo]

I would have liked to see Nuge in the shoot out over Letestu.

Not sure about NHL rules, but at least here in Europe Nuge would have been ineligable to shoot because of his penalty right before the end.

 

[McCombo]

What on Earth is going to "Even out" The Oilers have around 5 forwards capable of production and on the road trip had everybody dialing in. We'll get very few goals from our bottom lines and little from our D. This offense, as is, anyway you look at it tops out at about 200-210 goals. There isn't more in the tank. Our top 5 scorers could all knock it out o the ballpark averaging 25-30 goals and in range of career best seasons and this team would still struggle in scoring.

Has the "goals will come" contingent here even looked at the lineup? Every year since Chia we've bled the lineup of guys that can produce. Whatever ones opinion is of players like Eberle, Pouliot, Pitlick, Hendricks, Desharnais theres more offensive potential in those players than a lot of the ones we are going with this season. Unless one found that the likes of Cagg, Strome, Pak, Khaira, Kass, Slepy, Malone, were suddenly going to be scoring goals despite never having scored regularly before this was going to be a decreased scoring season, and is.

First line 5vs5 and powerplay. And yea the bottom 6 will score at better rate than we have seen.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Yep. Heard the same, and it makes sense.

Not really.
The salary cap is the salary cap. McDavid could have signed a max dollar, max term contract and it wouldn't change the cap. Escalating salaries for stars only means declining salaries for others.
Players as a group get paid the cap, nothing more.
In fact, it's better for the majority of the players in the union if the super stars take a smaller piece of the pie.