Post-Game Talk: Capitals 2, Oilers 1 (SO)

[McNuge]

That would be a good argument if the shot location wasn't also tracked in hockey games. There certainly are team speed and skill issues outside of the top 6, but there is no explanation for how Edmonton is drawing so few penalties, and yesterday's game was a prime example of how every interference, slash, hook, etc. went uncalled. At bare minimum, Edmonton should have drawn at least 2 penalties last game, and the fact that over half the league is drawing 3-5 penalties a game while the Oilers are under 3 makes absolutely no sense. Penalties are up around the league, just not for the Oilers.

I hate blaming reffing but you are bang on the money. The amount of shit that doesn't get called against McDavid is embarrassing. He literally has at least 2 blatant penalties against him a game that don't get called. I'm sure he draws a fair number of penalties as is, but if you are going to crack down on penalties don't pick favorites. Just call a penalty a penalty. If I was this bad at my job I would have been fired a long time ago...

 

[OilCountry93]

I have to agree. I also thought this summer that McD should have taken ~10M and Drai 7M. I think they dug themselves this hole potentially leaving Chia a fair mount less money to give them some quality winger help. I understand the NHPA were pressuring him to take as much as he can but I think he should have thought more about leaving more money for chia to find him good help.

It was insanely stupid to sign McDavid before Draisaitl. He still had a year left to negotiate and McDavid set the bar extremely high, which inflated Drai’s deal as well. A competent GM probably could’ve gotten Draisaitl in around 7 million if his deal was done first. Sweeney got a comparable player in Pasternak at 6.7 million. Chia is terrible at all aspecting of GMing.

Second in CF% and CF/60 and dead last in PP opportunities. This ****ing league lmao. Even at their garbage PP% you throw them in the top 10 for PP opportunities and the team scores another 3 goals which likely equates to another win or 2. How Connor McDavid has drawn so few penalties this season is beyond me when there's supposed to be a slashing crackdown. Total joke and i'm normally pretty apathetic towards NHL reffing.

For those wondering, McDavids penalties drawn per 60 is 1.27 this year and last year it was 1.83.

Probably because he’s not a whiner like Gaudreau or a dbag poop disturber like a guy like Tkachuk. That kid’s a lowlife, cheap shot artist, but is really effective at drawing penalties and riling up the opposition. But you’re right with McDavid’s speed he should be drawing close to two a game.

 

[harpoon]

Why are we sitting on cap space?

This is what I don't understand either.
Has Katz not made enough money in this town?
Why are we sitting on cap space?
And if there was no impact players to be had (as I'm sure some here would like to argue) then why not just keep Eberle for the season and dump him in the off season when he would only have one year left on his deal and you could probably get more for him?
If I'm McDavid and I see the team sitting on cap space while being the lowest scoring team in the league, I'm not feeling too great about it.

 

[GameChanger]

It was insanely stupid to sign McDavid before Draisaitl.

I wonder why they couldn't get a deal with Drai done earlier. I may have understood something incorrectly, but didn't they finish the deal just a bit before the games started? By placing Drai with McDavid and not pressuring(?) with the extension they basically gave him a possibility to get his salary up. It was too late for the Oilers to get anybody good enough to replace Drai so they were in a bad position to negotiote. Feel free to correct me if needed.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It was insanely stupid to sign McDavid before Draisaitl. He still had a year left to negotiate and McDavid set the bar extremely high, which inflated Drai’s deal as well. A competent GM probably could’ve gotten Draisaitl in around 7 million if his deal was done first. Sweeney got a comparable player in Pasternak at 6.7 million. Chia is terrible at all aspecting of GMing.



Probably because he’s not a whiner like Gaudreau or a dbag poop disturber like a guy like Tkachuk. That kid’s a lowlife, cheap shot artist, but is really effective at drawing penalties and riling up the opposition. But you’re right with McDavid’s speed he should be drawing close to two a game.

Pasta is also locked up for less time, which is why its cheaper.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Looch is obviously also taking more than he should but there has to be some onus on Connor and Drai. They have to know if theyre taking $21 mil of the cap that they will likely not have too much quality help anytime soon. So in some ways I don't feel all that sorry that connor is probably frustrated at the lack of help.

Well without making too much of this any club that was paying Eberle and Nuge 6m each, and that then decided to pay looch 6M, was certainly going to be on the table for culminating deals with McD and Drai that were going to be far north of that. The Oilers set the table on that. Chia confirmed the table when he singed Lucic. Just the way it is. Agents always look at team and around the league precedents, cap hierarchy, and such.

on the other hand if the players mentioned had 4-5M deals maybe the contracts for the great players look better, maybe they're even signed for less.

But seriously, that Chia paid 10M for Looch and Russell speaks volumes. It speaks theres money to throw around, whether there is or isn't.
Chia just isn't very good at this.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So maybe we need to start shooting from that other circle a bit more.

Chia hasn't found any Right Wingers yet, he traded them all away. That scatterplot should be evidence in his evaluation. You just can't make this stuff up. I looked at that and just started laughing.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Well without making too much of this any club that was paying Eberle and Nuge 6m each, and that then decided to pay looch 6M, was certainly going to be on the table for culminating deals with McD and Drai that were going to be far north of that. The Oilers set the table on that. Chia confirmed the table when he singed Lucic. Just the way it is. Agents always look at team and around the league precedents, cap hierarchy, and such.

on the other hand if the players mentioned had 4-5M deals maybe the contracts for the great players look better, maybe they're even signed for less.

But seriously, that Chia paid 10M for Looch and Russell speaks volumes. It speaks theres money to throw around, whether there is or isn't.
Chia just isn't very good at this.

The Russell deal is a much bigger issue than Lucic's at this point, atleast Lucic is still providing a level of play that's worth his contract, Russell isnt.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Taking goaltending out? At least a few. Thats not even what I'm discussing though, I'm discussing the ridiculously low number of PP opportunities this team has drawn when PP opportunities are up around the league. The top PP opportunity team in the league has drawn almost double what we have, and McDavid's own penalties drawn are down significantly from last year. This makes little sense given that the league made a mandate to call slashing more (so they claimed).

With out PP being what it is does it matter significantly? Most of the games in which we aren't getting calls are relatively quiet affairs in which neither club is getting nabbed much. which actually serves the Oilers as their PK is worst in league. Given a choice between 10penalties a night being awarded in a game and none, I know what option I'm choosing re the Oilers right now.

The pk should get better though in time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Russell deal is a much bigger issue than Lucic's at this point, atleast Lucic is still providing a level of play that's worth his contract, Russell isnt.

I'll agree to disagree. Neither are earning their contract. Lucic plays well the odd game in which I credit him for that. But the off games outnumber.

People speak about Maroon blowing scoring opportunities, sure, Maroon is a cheap player that ia an addendum to a line. Looch is paid handsomely as a topsix player that is supposed to be moving some results. he constantly flubs beauty setups. He's not shooting well, not scoring, hasn't been much of a playmaker and is not getting to his hits. Not really much he's doing other than being ineffective. Its telling that Maroon in his time here copped the role that the team was trying to settle Looch in for.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Second in CF% and CF/60 and dead last in PP opportunities. This ****ing league lmao. Even at their garbage PP% you throw them in the top 10 for PP opportunities and the team scores another 3 goals which likely equates to another win or 2. How Connor McDavid has drawn so few penalties this season is beyond me when there's supposed to be a slashing crackdown. Total joke and i'm normally pretty apathetic towards NHL reffing.

For those wondering, McDavids penalties drawn per 60 is 1.27 this year and last year it was 1.83.

This is entirely revisionist. you can't just compute a magic 3 extra goals and say that results in one or two extra wins. It might not result in anything. If the Oilers have displayed anything this year its a tendency to be outplayed in tight games. Give the Oilers another goal and the opponent probably just works harder for another goal. Even assuming any number of extra PP's to an already tired McD and Drai add up to 3 more goals.

So much what if in your post. I have one. What if Chia was a good GM? That would be good..

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'll agree to disagree. Neither are earning their contract. Lucic plays well the odd game in which I credit him for that. But the off games outnumber.

People speak about Maroon blowing scoring opportunities, sure, Maroon is a cheap player that ia an addendum to a line. Looch is paid handsomely as a topsix player that is supposed to be moving some results. he constantly flubs beauty setups. He's not shooting well, not scoring, hasn't been much of a playmaker and is not getting to his hits. Not really much he's doing other than being ineffective. Its telling that Maroon in his time here copped the role that the team was trying to settle Looch in for.

Lucic is on pace for the same amount of points as last year, without much help from the PP, he has been much better at 5on5 this year, and that's not even up for debate.

 

[McDNicks17]

Clearly it's the second liner on pace for 43 even strength points and the defenseman who has been on the ice for a whopping 7 goals against at 5v5 that are the problems with this team.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lucic is on pace for the same amount of points as last year, without much help from the PP, he has been much better at 5on5 this year, and that's not even up for debate.

I'm talking since Looch has been here clearly when I say that Maroon took his spot. Lucic had all of 11 EV goals all of last season. not a very good total for him. he has 3 this far, good, but I'm not convinced either he's going to continue on that pace. His assists consist mostly of bump squeezes where the puck bounces to a team mate. Lucic isn't really a great playmaker. For the amount of toi this guy gets and pp time and the amount of opportunities he's fed its astounding he has only 3 goals and zero PP goals.

Lucic would be the first person to say his hands are failing him. He's getting similar pts because this org uses him, and relies on him, and gives him more toi than they should. Basically because there is nobody else. The team has Looch and Maroon as capable wingers. That's it. its not a long list.

I agree Lucic is BETTER EV this season so far. Considering the bar wasn't set very high last year.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Clearly it's the second liner on pace for 43 even strength points and the defenseman who has been on the ice for a whopping 7 goals against at 5v5 that are the problems with this team.

Not sure what stat site you are using for that. I see Russell listed at 14GA this season EV. Not sure which is correct but 7 sounds less than noted.

 

[McDNicks17]

Not sure what stat site you are using for that. I see Russell listed at 14GA this season EV. Not sure which is correct but 7 sounds less than noted.

You're looking at total GA.

7 of those are on the PK.

 

[guymez]

Lucic is on pace for the same amount of points as last year, without much help from the PP, he has been much better at 5on5 this year, and that's not even up for debate.

Goals are an issue and there a more than a few under performing players. For example...as I mentioned earlier in this thread...Lucic is on pace for 14 goals.
Thats a big problem.
I dont even know if I have seen him in front of the net all that much.
He needs to start getting his nose dirty,

 

[Drivesaitl]

You're looking at total GA.

7 of those are on the PK.

I lost my good stat links in a computer reshuffle. Any good links you'd recommend. Doesn't need to be too complicated, just sites that list good raw data on GFon GAon and such.

It seemed like Russell was on for more GA even but I'm glad to be wrong. I don't dislike the player, I just find him less effective now.

Thanks for the correction in anycase.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Goals are an issue and there a more than a few under performing players. For example...as I mentioned earlier in this thread...Lucic is on pace for 14 goals.
Thats a big problem.
I dont even know if I have seen him in front of the net all that much.
He needs to start getting his nose dirty,

It's weird, but even though Maroon has a respectable amount of goals, I'm finding the same thing with him. I've noticed several times this season where he's skating into the offensive zone with the puck along his boards, and rather than cutting in and crashing to the net, he just elects to skate towards the corner instead.

Our big players just aren't playing big anymore.

 

[OilCountry93]

Pasta is also locked up for less time, which is why its cheaper.

I’d take Drai at 6.7 for 2 years less. Without a doubt.

 

[guymez]

It's weird, but even though Maroon has a respectable amount of goals, I'm finding the same thing with him. I've noticed several times this season where he's skating into the offensive zone with the puck along his boards, and rather than cutting in and crashing to the net, he just elects to skate towards the corner instead.

Our big players just aren't playing big anymore.

Completely agree. I dont think that this is a talent issue. I think the Oilers are going to get a first hand lesson regarding whats involved in scoring goals tomorrow.

 

[MaxR11]

Well without making too much of this any club that was paying Eberle and Nuge 6m each, and that then decided to pay looch 6M, was certainly going to be on the table for culminating deals with McD and Drai that were going to be far north of that. The Oilers set the table on that. Chia confirmed the table when he singed Lucic. Just the way it is. Agents always look at team and around the league precedents, cap hierarchy, and such.

on the other hand if the players mentioned had 4-5M deals maybe the contracts for the great players look better, maybe they're even signed for less.

But seriously, that Chia paid 10M for Looch and Russell speaks volumes. It speaks theres money to throw around, whether there is or isn't.
Chia just isn't very good at this.

absolutely. I understand that point, but as supposed intelligent human beings/hockey players I feel Connor and Drai should be able to ration out the logic that taking such a large portion of the cap will mean they are unlikely to get quality help anytime soon and will have to roll the dice that the current help is sufficient. And based on last year I think they should have been able to extrapolate that there was not that much SUSTAINABLE help and that they were the ones that really carried the team. I think it was foolish and a bit cocky of them to think that they would be to continue to dominate the league with such little help. Teams are figuring out how to neutralize their effectiveness to a certain degree. Connor already saw that in the playoffs. He should have known better.

 

[McDNicks17]

I lost my good stat links in a computer reshuffle. Any good links you'd recommend. Doesn't need to be too complicated, just sites that list good raw data on GFon GAon and such.

It seemed like Russell was on for more GA even but I'm glad to be wrong. I don't dislike the player, I just find him less effective now.

Thanks for the correction in anycase.

naturalstattrick.com is basically the only advanced stats site left.

GA/GA is on nhl.com, but it's under Plus-Minus and is weirdly separated into Team GF/GA and Team PPGF/PPGA.

 

[Drivesaitl]

absolutely. I understand that point, but as supposed intelligent human beings/hockey players I feel Connor and Drai should be able to ration out the logic that taking such a large portion of the cap will mean they are unlikely to get quality help anytime soon and will have to roll the dice that the current help is sufficient. And based on last year I think they should have been able to extrapolate that there was not that much SUSTAINABLE help and that they were the ones that really carried the team. I think it was foolish and a bit cocky of them to think that they would be to continue to dominate the league with such little help. Teams are figuring out how to neutralize their effectiveness to a certain degree. Connor already saw that in the playoffs. He should have known better.

But with the proviso that the McD and Drai contracts do not preclude depth in the lineup. Many pundits state its the amount of 4-6M contracts that a club carries that are the death by papercuts in a capped league. We can't undo that, just saying.

I agree that correction was going to occur. Its something I always state. You don't really know what you have in any player until the season AFTER a breakout year when teams are scouting ways to shut that down. The NHL has always been somewhat slow to react in that way and I don't know why. In different sports, in the NFL,or MLB teams are scouting every game, every opponent. The hockey world is still really lax in that. Correction is always latent. One season later usually.

But I sympathize with your comments and understand what you are stating. I can see your argument, it just wasn't likely to happen that way. In capped leagues the Lions eat the cap proceeds. Just the way it is.

 

[Drivesaitl]

naturalstattrick.com is basically the only advanced stats site left.

GA/GA is on nhl.com, but it's under Plus-Minus and is weirdly separated into Team GF/GA and Team PPGF/PPGA.

Yeah, thanks. I used to use behind the Net, leftwinglock, and I forget what else. The sites do appear to be going the way of the dodo bird.

Thanks much for the link. Yeah, I don't like how the NHL stats are setup. Very nonintuitive and clumsy and you can hardly get what you want on same page.

Wasn't hockeyanalytics another one? is that gone too?