Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v26.0

[RobertKron]

I don't get it. Is Gudbranson hot garbage or is he a 5-6$ million dollar d man? You can't have it both ways.

3.6 isn't 5 million, but Sbisa is pretty close to having it both ways.

 

[CanaFan]

There's nothing fancy about it. It's a simple and stupid argument to say that because Chicago signed Kane and Toews, the Canucks can't trade for a first liner in the future. It's just dumb. Jyrki, can you make some sort of cartoon about this that drags on for months?

Who made that argument?

 

[me2]

I don't get it. Is Gudbranson hot garbage or is he a 5-6$ million dollar d man? You can't have it both ways.

That's never stopped Jim having it both ways, and that's the problem.

 

[Hit the post]

I can't wait for the dinosaur Ryan Miller's contract to come off the books.

 

[CanaFan]

You *can* trade for a first liner. It'll cost you another first liner though. Or the defenseman you spent a #5 pick on. Either way it's just moving one scarce asset for another, there is no "creation of value". Unless you are expecting Benning to turn a pile of scraps into a first line winger. Which would be a rather unlikely thing to expect.

 

[me2]

3.6 isn't 5 million, but Sbisa is pretty close to having it both ways.

Dorsett: Petty goon or good $2.6m third liner

Miller: faded star or high quality $6m states.

Linden Vey: waiver fodder or 30% raise 1-way contract.

 

[RobertKron]

You *can* trade for a first liner. It'll cost you another first liner though. Or the defenseman you spent a #5 pick on. Either way it's just moving one scarce asset for another, there is no "creation of value". Unless you are expecting Benning to turn a pile of scraps into a first line winger. Which would be a rather unlikely thing to expect.

Considering they just traded a former 1st rounder who played in the NHL at 19, and a very high second for a 4-5 Dman, I don't get all the bluster about them being able to just grab a first line player no problem.

What exactly do the Canucks have that will garner them a below UFA aged bonafide first line player?

 

[Canucker]

I can't wait for the dinosaur Ryan Miller's contract to come off the books.

Don't worry Benning will find a way to squander the money away on some new nonsensical asset.

 

[RobertKron]

Don't worry Benning will find a way to squander the money away on some new nonsensical asset.

No! They're going to trade Mackenze Stewart, Luca Sbisa, and Granlund for Gaudreau. It's easy!

 

[me2]

Here's the thing, $$$$$'s itself isn't a guarantee a "free agent in demand" is going to sign with you. Good thing for the Oilers as Clarkson chose to sign a lesser contract (the Leafs).

Yeah but Toronto paid him in buyout proof bonuses. If Edmonton just offered normal money Toronto's offer might have been safer.

 

[Hit the post]

Yeah but Toronto paid him in buyout proof bonuses. If Edmonton just offered normal money Toronto's offer might have been safer.

Ahh, but we've got an expert on the CBA - Weisbrod. He'd make sure no such mistake would be made.

 

[Canucker]

No! They're going to trade Mackenze Stewart, Luca Sbisa, and Granlund for Gaudreau. It's easy!

Benning would be too afraid to deal those guys to a division rival.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Umm you realize how difficult it is to acquire top line talent, right? With the Sedins gone, how exactly will this team be able to hire those "gunslingers?"

Also, acquiring players who are "tough" doesn't mean they are tough to play against. Connor McDavid is tougher to play against than John Scott, despite one being a skill forward and the other being a goon. What's the difference? One is a good hockey player, and the other isn't. So while it's blatantly obvious in this hyperbolic example, why do people all of a sudden ignore this when comparing other players?

tfw you make a post so bad, y2k has to give credit to the Sedins.

 

[PG Canuck]

It's not going to be a one summer re-build. We are into year 3, waiting for the dinosaurs to die. Defense has been rebuilt and will be coming into their primes in the next few years. Goaltending looks promising. Dinosaurs need to die so their salaries can be taken off the books and they can and will be replaced. Am I being trolled here?

Be replaced by who and what exactly? Who is going to fill the Sedins shoes?

 

[RobertKron]

Be replaced by who and what exactly? Who is going to fill the Sedins shoes?

Someone!

 

[PG Canuck]

Someone!

Now that is a strawman argument. But really, we don't have the top end talent to replace two of the best Canucks (arguably, I guess) to ever play for this team.

Boeser is tracking well, but is he Art Ross material? It's possible, but is it likely? Horvat is tracking to be more of a Kesler type, and there is nothing wrong with that. Other than that, who else is legit top line material? But we're suppose to just let the "dinosaurs die" and then they'll be replaced.

That is quite the foolproof plan!

 

[RobertKron]

Now that is a strawman argument. But really, we don't have the top end talent to replace two of the best Canucks (arguably, I guess) to ever play for this team.

Boeser is tracking well, but is he Art Ross material? It's possible, but is it likely? Horvat is tracking to be more of a Kesler type, and there is nothing wrong with that. Other than that, who else is legit top line material? But we're suppose to just let the "dinosaurs die" and then they'll be replaced.

That is quite the foolproof plan!

Well someone has to play on the first line, so whoever that is will be first liners. Problem solved.

 

[PG Canuck]

Well someone has to play on the first line, so whoever that is will be first liners. Problem solved.

Well, can't argue that. There are 30 first lines in the NHL, so whoever is on ours, is a first liner.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Well someone has to play on the first line, so whoever that is will be first liners. Problem solved.

I'll do it for league minimum. Think of the cap savings

 

[me2]

Be replaced by who and what exactly? Who is going to fill the Sedins shoes?

All you need is a copy The Secret and its all explained in there. If you want some to be true, convince yourself it is and the Universe will make it true. It was on Oprah, so you know it's true.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

All you need is a copy The Secret and its all explained in there. If you want some to be true, convince yourself it is and the Universe will make it true. It was on Oprah, so you know it's true.

My manager actually recommended that book to me oncw

 

[R0bert0 Lu0ng0]

In fairness, the post that started all of this is a pretty bad straw man as well.

[in discussing whether we have Sedin-calibre prospects in the organization]
Boeser is tracking well, but is he Art Ross material?

The Sedins have been perennially high-scoring forwards, and are very good players, but most years they have not been "Art Ross material" either. Not if you define that as being a threat to actually win the scoring title in a given year.

And anyway, I don't think anyone can expect Benning to come away with not one but two high end forward prospects - and that's not exclusively an indictment of his performance as GM so far, it's just really hard to replace consistently great players. Honestly it probably won't happen for quite some time, and if this team is going to be good it will have to be good in a different way. But most likely, they will just be a mess for some time after Henrik and Daniel hang them up.

 

[Hit the post]

In fairness, the post that started all of this is a pretty bad straw man as well.



The Sedins have been perennially high-scoring forwards, and are very good players, but most years they have not been "Art Ross material" either. Not if you define that as being a threat to actually win the scoring title in a given year.

"In fairness", we know what a "foundation player" is according to Benning....

 

[racerjoe]

In fairness, the post that started all of this is a pretty bad straw man as well.



The Sedins have been perennially high-scoring forwards, and are very good players, but most years they have not been "Art Ross material" either. Not if you define that as being a threat to actually win the scoring title in a given year.

And anyway, I don't think anyone can expect Benning to come away with not one but two high end forward prospects - and that's not exclusively an indictment of his performance as GM so far, it's just really hard to replace consistently great players. Honestly it probably won't happen for quite some time, and if this team is going to be good it will have to be good in a different way. But most likely, they will just be a mess for some time after Henrik and Daniel hang them up.

Maybe the twins aren't going to win the art Ross year after year, but they are still top ten in NHL scoring. They have been extremely consistent. There is not many players you can say have had the type of consistent production as them. I don't think some understand how hard that is period.

 

[R0bert0 Lu0ng0]

Maybe the twins aren't going to win the art Ross year after year, but they are still top ten in NHL scoring. They have been extremely consistent. There is not many players you can say have had the type of consistent production as them. I don't think some understand how hard that is period.

They had a good run of being usually in the top ten (and of course, winning in consecutive years).

Highest scoring Sedin between 2009 and last year was 14th, 1st, 1st, 8th, 20th, 88th, 8th, 40th.

But anyway, my point is that a. the Sedins themselves were mostly not "Art Ross material,"* and b. the Canucks were playoff contenders in most of those seasons anyways.

*and if you need me to circle back again and say "but they are very good/irreplaceable/etc players" in order to believe that my intent here isn't to trash them, then here you go.