Prospect Info: Canadiens 2015 Rookie Tournament Thread (Sept 11th to 13th) Part II

[OldCraig71]

I thought I was a pessimist when it comes to most young players that is until I read Gainesvillain. He makes me sound like S bah.

 

[Brainiac]

Gainesvillain you must be a Maple Leaf fans.



Hudon = Jan Bulis 2.0
McCarron= 4th line center
Scherbak= an enigmatic Russian

Don't quit your day jobs.......And get back to the Leafs board for everyone sake.

Honestly, I'm still not sold on McCarron's offensive potential. Calling him a 4th liner at this point is a little harsh, but saying he's surefire top 6 is delusional.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I'll take a long nap. Wake me if one of these lads is wearing NHL bleu-blanc-rouge in late October.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think that Lernout did fine. Miceli was probably our best forward. Hudon is another story has in AHL form, he has to dominate that tournament...but he is surely not there yet.

 

[Rapala]

i'll take a long nap. Wake me if one of these lads is wearing nhl bleu-blanc-rouge in late october.

2017 ???

 

[LaP]

Gainesvillain you must be a Maple Leaf fans.



Hudon = Jan Bulis 2.0
McCarron= 4th line center
Scherbak= an enigmatic Russian

Don't quit your day jobs.......And get back to the Leafs board for everyone sake.

Hudon looks a lot more like a young Plekanec than a Bulis. He might not reach Plekanec's level (Plekanec was not supposed to reach it either) but he sure looks a lot more like him than Yan Bulis who was a totally different player imo. He is more aggressive than Plekanec but he uses his stick the same way.

He is overly pessimistic and unrealistic imo. Maybe he is one of those guys who have trouble making the difference between potential and reality. It's not because someone says a kid has the potential for something that he will necessarily reach it. That's just potential. Few kids actually reach it.

Hudon potential is mini Plekanec.
Scherbak potential is around AK (the on ice version of AK not off the ice and by AK i mean his best seasons). He reminds me AK a lot. AK was also weak physically despite his size at his first pro year.
MacCarron potential well it's hard to compare it to any guys we had cause we did not have a lot of those since i'm born. But saying his potential is 4th line is wrong imo. I think he surely has the potential to be a good second line 20G/40P physical player if you use him with skilled guys. At his size if he reaches this potential all teams will want him.

Now i'm not saying those 3 guys will reach their potential. But if we are lucky 2 of them might reach it. I would be surprised if the 3 are bust.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Hudon looks a lot more like a young Plekanec than a Bulis. He might not reach Plekanec's level (Plekanec was not supposed to reach it either) but he sure looks a lot more like him than Yan Bulis.

The Bulis comparison is ridiculous. Bulis had size, speed and a low iq with questionable hands.....literally opposite skillsets

 

[NewHabsEra*]

Honestly, I'm still not sold on McCarron's offensive potential. Calling him a 4th liner at this point is a little harsh, but saying he's surefire top 6 is delusional.

Big Mac will never be a permanent top 6 player, he isnt skilled enough but he will be a hell of third line grinder and should be used in front of the net on the PP where he is barely unmovable and very effective..

 

[hototogisu]

Actually, it wasn't an impressive bunch. Not becuase of what they might show in the future....but for what they showed in this tournament. Not exactly detrimental to him...but when Ryan Johnston is your most impressive prospect....you then know they weren't as a bunch that impressive. But there are still quite a few hopefuls for the future for sure...nobody is or should write anybody off based on this tournament.

I kind of agree...but we're at the point now where our prospect pool isn't going to look like gangbusters. We're trading picks and picking late because we're trying to win. We're not the Leafs or the Jets, every year isn't going to be a great crop for us by nature.

 

[Soltantgris]

Big Mac will never be a permanent top 6 player, he isnt skilled enough but he will be a hell of third line grinder and should be used in front of the net on the PP where he is barely unmovable and very effective..

I like how people can be so sure of their statement when most professional scouts and coachs are not. Expecially when it is related to such behemoth player. Just this part ''he will be a hell of a third line grinder and should be in front of the net on the PP...'' is pretty short sighted. If he is a beast and must be in front of the net in PP - saying his selling is 3rd line player is ackward. Look at Gallagher. Skilled ? Not that much. Big ? Well. He is a beast in front of the net, grind goals from there, and is not out of place on a first line.

Anyway, you guys are probably better then these stupid scouts and coachs.

*after watching a couple of rockie worthless game.

 

[Scintillating10]

Hudon looks a lot more like a young Plekanec than a Bulis. He might not reach Plekanec's level (Plekanec was not supposed to reach it either) but he sure looks a lot more like him than Yan Bulis who was a totally different player imo. He is more aggressive than Plekanec but he uses his stick the same way.

He is overly pessimistic and unrealistic imo. Maybe he is one of those guys who have trouble making the difference between potential and reality. It's not because someone says a kid has the potential for something that he will necessarily reach it. That's just potential. Few kids actually reach it.

Hudon potential is mini Plekanec.
Scherbak potential is around AK (the on ice version of AK not off the ice and by AK i mean his best seasons). He reminds me AK a lot. AK was also weak physically despite his size at his first pro year.
MacCarron potential well it's hard to compare it to any guys we had cause we did not have a lot of those since i'm born. But saying his potential is 4th line is wrong imo. I think he surely has the potential to be a good second line 20G/40P physical player if you use him with skilled guys. At his size if he reaches this potential all teams will want him.

Now i'm not saying those 3 guys will reach their potential. But if we are lucky 2 of them might reach it. I would be surprised if the 3 are bust.

Hudon had more points than Plekanec in their first season in AHL. Playing for a tougher coach also

 

[ColinO]

Hopefully Montreal does what teams like Detroit have done in the past - let the players develop in the AHL until they're ready to roll. I didn't see any of the rookies who I thought was NHL ready although I actually think McCarron may have the best shot at moving up at some point this year given his specific skill set. I saw McCarron when he first came to London and he looked awful. He was lost and uncoordinated. From what I have heard, he is an extremely hard working guy who wants to, and is able to, learn. This attitude shows in his improvement and the fact that he is now so much better than he was only a couple of years ago gives me a lot of optimism for him.
Recall that Cory Perry also spent a fair amount of time in the AHL his first year. In a way, McCarron reminds me of him - not as a player necessarily but as a guy who never really looked to be that skilled and who was always underrated and never expected to do much but who, as the result of a tremendous effort and perseverance, and his willingness to do what it took to be successful, exceeded what most people expected.

 

[Price is Wright]

Hopefully Montreal does what teams like Detroit have done in the past - let the players develop in the AHL until they're ready to roll. I didn't see any of the rookies who I thought was NHL ready although I actually think McCarron may have the best shot at moving up at some point this year given his specific skill set. I saw McCarron when he first came to London and he looked awful. He was lost and uncoordinated. From what I have heard, he is an extremely hard working guy who wants to, and is able to, learn. This attitude shows in his improvement and the fact that he is now so much better than he was only a couple of years ago gives me a lot of optimism for him.
Recall that Cory Perry also spent a fair amount of time in the AHL his first year. In a way, McCarron reminds me of him - not as a player necessarily but as a guy who never really looked to be that skilled and who was always underrated and never expected to do much but who, as the result of a tremendous effort and perseverance, and his willingness to do what it took to be successful, exceeded what most people expected.

When you remember the name of the site, it's easy to see why people want to rush youngsters.

I agree. If Hudon is in the AHL until he's 24, it's not a bad thing. It means our team is so good we didn't need him up until then. Same goes for McCarron and Scherbak. Hudon is 21 and looks like Keanu Reeves. Don't matter when we call him up, he'll look the same age.

 

[Agalloch]

They should all begin the year in AHL. I can see Hudon/Andrighetto finish the year in Montreal tho.

 

[jaffy27]

2 years ago, most people on this board thought McCarron was a bust, last year, most people on this board thought he'd be no better than a 4th line player, this year, most people on this board think that he's a borderline 2nd line player or a sure 3rd line player.......what will McCarron be next year?? Anyone else sees an ascending trend here??

There is such a thing as progression, maturity, late blooming and everything coming together, I believe we're witnessing it with this player. Having said that, everyone has a ceiling, but has McCarron reached his?? Time and only time will tell, anyone who's followed hockey for more than 5minutes knows that it takes these bigger guys a little longer to grow into their bodies and finding that balance and coordination....we got front row seats for this show, let's just enjoy it as oppose to bickering to one another that he's this or that because he had an ok showing at a mini tournament.

 

[Top Corner2]

Miceli had a good tournament, but I didn't see enough to offer him a contract. My guess is that he is let go. He does have good vision and instincts, but not a complete enough package in my opinion.

What I learned from watching this tournament.

Scherbak definitely needs some AHL time. I am not worried about his overall development, but he needs to bulk up, learn to play against bigger players and learn to do less.

McCarron will be groomed as a center. His play down low, his face offs and his play without the puck were all very good. I'm pretty sure he will be given a shot as a C down in St Johns. This is great news for the Habs.

Hudon is going to be a pain in the butt to play against. This kids is just so sneaky and competitive. I really love his jam. I can't wait to get him playing in Montreal full time. Probably by playoff time this season is my guess.

Lernout is for real. At this point I think he leaps over most of the older guys and becomes our top D prospect in St Johns.

There is actually hope for Bennett & Thrower. I'd say there is not much chance they ever become what we dreamed they might, but both those guys could carve out an NHL career. Thrower is all sandpaper and he seems to have learned to play a better positional game. Bennett has also improved his positional game and his skating & stick handling skills are great. Both are a bit small...but you never know.

Gregoire is going to be a coaches player. If he can work on his first few steps he might be a really handy utility player. Reminds me of (in style) P. Bergeron from Boston....complete game, solid frame & great instincts

Fucale is going to cause us all to argue!!! Haha I guess you love him or hate him.... Everyone has an opinion... Just win baby! Hopefully the habs won't need him anytime soon.

 

[LastWordArmy]

I like how people can be so sure of their statement when most professional scouts and coachs are not. Expecially when it is related to such behemoth player. Just this part ''he will be a hell of a third line grinder and should be in front of the net on the PP...'' is pretty short sighted. If he is a beast and must be in front of the net in PP - saying his selling is 3rd line player is ackward. Look at Gallagher. Skilled ? Not that much. Big ? Well. He is a beast in front of the net, grind goals from there, and is not out of place on a first line.

Anyway, you guys are probably better then these stupid scouts and coachs.

I talked to a number of pro scouts this weekend who were at the rookie tournament. Every single one I talked to said McCarron's upside was bottom 6. Every one. No one wants to go on record with the evaluations, so I won't give names... but it was 10 guys who work for various NHL teams. There was debate if he could even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, and one scout was downright vicious, saying he'll never make it and is "a basketball player on skates."

These are guys employed as pro scouts by NHL teams... but ok, argue with them if you want.

Interviews with Carr, Hudon, Johnston, Miceli, Scherbak, McCarron (twice), Fucale, Bozon, Lefebvre (three times),

http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/09/15/habs-rookie-tournament-audio/

 

[hototogisu]

2 years ago, most people on this board thought McCarron was a bust, last year, most people on this board thought he'd be no better than a 4th line player, this year, most people on this board think that he's a borderline 2nd line player or a sure 3rd line player.......what will McCarron be next year?? Anyone else sees an ascending trend here??

Not really. Opinions of McCarron have been all over the map since the day we drafted him. Last year a lot of people came around on him because he started producing offensively.

No one knows what McCarron will ultimately pan out as but it's hard to fault people for getting excited about him. He's an exciting prospect.

 

[Price is Wright]

I talked to a number of pro scouts this weekend who were at the rookie tournament. Every single one I talked to said McCarron's upside was bottom 6. Every one. No one wants to go on record with the evaluations, so I won't give names... but it was 10 guys who work for various NHL teams. There was debate if he could even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, and one scout was downright vicious, saying he'll never make it and is "a basketball player on skates."

These are guys employed as pro scouts by NHL teams... but ok, argue with them if you want.

To be fair, there are a lot of dumb people employed by NHL teams, which is why they get fired so often and flip teams. Pro scouts are no different. Heck, would you trust a Habs pro scout from five years ago?

 

[LastWordArmy]

To be fair, there are a lot of dumb people employed by NHL teams, which is why they get fired so often and flip teams. Pro scouts are no different. Heck, would you trust a Habs pro scout from five years ago?

Thats fair, but i was responding to a post bringing up the fact that pro scouts and coaches think he can be a top 6 player. Other than the Habs scouts and coaches (who are not going to trash their own player), I didn't hear a single scout talk about top 6 upside for him... There were scouts who like Scherbak, Hudon, and others... but there wasn't one that saw McCarron as a top 6. The range on him was things like never gonna make it.... 2-3 years away from bottom 6 duty and maybe.... and will be an excellent 3rd liner, but not more.

And obviously not every scout in the NHL was there... but I talked to plenty... and I'm not hearing the things that poster was claiming that pro scouts are saying.

Also to be fair, most of these guys were pro scouts (NHL/AHL as opposed to amateur scouts who cover juniors) so there exposure to McCarron to this point has been limited to his camp work / pre-seasons, over 3 years.

 

[Price is Wright]

Thats fair, but i was responding to a post bringing up the fact that pro scouts and coaches think he can be a top 6 player. Other than the Habs scouts and coaches (who are not going to trash their own player), I didn't hear a single scout talk about top 6 upside for him... There were scouts who like Scherbak, Hudon, and others... but there wasn't one that saw McCarron as a top 6. The range on him was things like never gonna make it.... 2-3 years away from bottom 6 duty and maybe.... and will be an excellent 3rd liner, but not more.

Which is a built in doubt created from a few factors:

1. Too much focus on his first OHL season
2. Too many teams burned by drafting massive forwards (Biggs, Beach, Jessiman, etc.)
3. USA not inviting him

I don't blame anyone for betting low on McCarron, whether it be you or pro scouts. I think they just ignore that it's pretty common for big forwards with third line skill to play top six/PP1 because of their extraneous factors like being good in front of the crease and digging out pucks, two things McCarron excels at. When I look at Chris Kreider has done so far in his career, I see McCarron being similar.

 

[LaP]

Thats fair, but i was responding to a post bringing up the fact that pro scouts and coaches think he can be a top 6 player. Other than the Habs scouts and coaches (who are not going to trash their own player), I didn't hear a single scout talk about top 6 upside for him... There were scouts who like Scherbak, Hudon, and others... but there wasn't one that saw McCarron as a top 6. The range on him was things like never gonna make it.... 2-3 years away from bottom 6 duty and maybe.... and will be an excellent 3rd liner, but not more.

And obviously not every scout in the NHL was there... but I talked to plenty... and I'm not hearing the things that poster was claiming that pro scouts are saying.

Also to be fair, most of these guys were pro scouts (NHL/AHL as opposed to amateur scouts who cover juniors) so there exposure to McCarron to this point has been limited to his camp work / pre-seasons, over 3 years.

Yeah but did you ask them what they mean by top 6?

Byckell ain't a real top 6 but he still did the job for a while when paired with skilled players on a top 6 line. If his salary was not ridiculous he would still be a good 3rd line player able to get 2nd line minutes here and there when needed against tough competition. The same applied to Dustin Penner. Those guys were really helpful to Chicago and LA to win a cup. You need those type of guys to win a cup. They might not be what we classically call a top 6 player but in playoffs when the space is tight those guys can elevated their game and help the team.

If McCarron would be 6'0 foots he would not be even close to a top 6 potential. In fact if he was 6'0 foots he would probably not even have NHL potential at all.

He doesn't have the skills to be a top 6 guy. But it's not what we need. We got skills. We lack a little bit of it but if DD and Plekanec would not crap their pants every years in playoffs it would help a lot.

McCarron will more than likely spend most of his career on a 3rd line (if he reaches his potential). But i can definitely see him playing a 2nd line role here and there in playoffs when a player like DD disappears. If he reaches his potential he is the kind of guys all DGs want as long as the cap hit ain't too bad.

 

[The Nightman]

I talked to a number of pro scouts this weekend who were at the rookie tournament. Every single one I talked to said McCarron's upside was bottom 6. Every one. No one wants to go on record with the evaluations, so I won't give names... but it was 10 guys who work for various NHL teams. There was debate if he could even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, and one scout was downright vicious, saying he'll never make it and is "a basketball player on skates."

These are guys employed as pro scouts by NHL teams... but ok, argue with them if you want.

What does that even mean "Basketball player on skates"? I'm sorry, scout or not, if someone says that I wouldn't take their opinion seriously.

Give me the dude's twitter or email, I'd gladly argue with him.

 

[CupInSIX]

I talked to a number of pro scouts this weekend who were at the rookie tournament. Every single one I talked to said McCarron's upside was bottom 6. Every one. No one wants to go on record with the evaluations, so I won't give names... but it was 10 guys who work for various NHL teams. There was debate if he could even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, and one scout was downright vicious, saying he'll never make it and is "a basketball player on skates."

These are guys employed as pro scouts by NHL teams... but ok, argue with them if you want.

So you say.

 

[JayKing]

I talked to a number of pro scouts this weekend who were at the rookie tournament. Every single one I talked to said McCarron's upside was bottom 6. Every one. No one wants to go on record with the evaluations, so I won't give names... but it was 10 guys who work for various NHL teams. There was debate if he could even make the NHL as a bottom 6 guy, and one scout was downright vicious, saying he'll never make it and is "a basketball player on skates."

These are guys employed as pro scouts by NHL teams... but ok, argue with them if you want.

What did they have to say on Scherbak and Hudon?