Prospect Info: Canadiens 2015 Rookie Tournament Thread (Sept 11th to 13th) Part II

[Whitesnake]

I thought they were pretty solid.

Not sure where you get that Johnston is the "most impressive prospect". He was probably the biggest surprise since he played well and isn't a top 20 rated guy. He's also 3 years older than the big names(Scherbak Fucale Lernout McCarron Bozon etc) on the roster.

Well because that's was my point. The tournament. I'm pretty sure I wrote that I wasn,t writing anybody of. I shouldn't even had to write it....but I did it in case it was not seen that way and even when I do....somehow I have a reply about Johnston being 3 years older than the kids. Yeah I know....it doesn't change the fact that Scherbak struggled immensely IN THAT TOURNAMENT. Nylander also was 3 years younger and more than most Leafs prospects and yet....CLEARY didn't look as lost as Scherbak. For that tournament. Even though it's not that great of an example as Nylander will probably also always look better than Scherbak till the end of their career.....yet, we are not talking about the same level of prospect here. And while Nylander will always look great....Scherbak do have skills that could make him look awesome for also years to come. Yet, again, my points on that post was to talk about the tournament. McCarron looked okay...Fucale had some very good and some more bad moments etc. Johnston looked better than everybody else, hence my point. For that tournament. Some people were targetting Scherbak to have a roster spot right in October....of course if the kid doesn't look better...he won't even see 2 preseason games. So we're mostly just talking about the rookie camp here....and I think Johnston looked better than most. And I even add the development camp when, also, Johnston looked amongst the best out there.

Hudon was the most impressive guy we had out there, made things happen on almost every shift.

Let's agree to disagree. He clearly wasn't that obvious in most of the games. A couple of goalposts can't suddenly give people the impression that he was lights out the rest of the game...he wasn't. Yet, as I said, I'm not writing off for the future....obviously.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I have been saying this about McCarron since he came to London as I know some people within the organization with the Knights and some pro and ameture scouts who like you said will not go on record for just this reason. I have been *****ed at for this but the info is credible and people can take from it what they will. I was told he was moved for issues relating to his attitude.

a


I do not for a second believe you on this as I regularly speak to an individual who was high in the organization at the time. Water boys and zamboni drivers don't count my friend.

 

[HankyZetts]

He clearly wasn't that obvious in most of the games.

Doesn't mean he wasn't really, really good.

 

[HCH]

I have been saying this about McCarron since he came to London as I know some people within the organization with the Knights and some pro and ameture scouts who like you said will not go on record for just this reason. I have been *****ed at for this but the info is credible and people can take from it what they will. I was told he was moved for issues relating to his attitude.

He was traded so London could build for the future. They weren't going to win the Memorial Cup so picked up some assets for a guy that was only going to be around for the rest of the year.

Sounds like someone was trying to make themselves sound like an insider.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

He was traded so London could build for the future. They weren't going to win the Memorial Cup so picked up some assets for a guy that was only going to be around for the rest of the year.

Sounds like someone was trying to make themselves sound like an insider.

Exactly what I am thinking

 

[Kriss E]

He was traded so London could build for the future. They weren't going to win the Memorial Cup so picked up some assets for a guy that was only going to be around for the rest of the year.

Sounds like someone was trying to make themselves sound like an insider.

Even if it actually was true, it's like some people have no basis with reality.
Some teenagers have attitude issues, damn, what a discovery.
It means jack crap.

 

[jaffy27]

Not really. Opinions of McCarron have been all over the map since the day we drafted him. Last year a lot of people came around on him because he started producing offensively.

No one knows what McCarron will ultimately pan out as but it's hard to fault people for getting excited about him. He's an exciting prospect.

Yes, but we can all agree that the GENERAL consensus after year one in London was bust (not mine personally) and its been trending upwards ever since? This is my point, he's been getting better and better to the point where now he was the best prospect on our team(arguably) at the last tournament....this from the labelling of BUST from most posters here not too long ago!

 

[jaffy27]

Even if it actually was true, it's like some people have no basis with reality.
Some teenagers have attitude issues, damn, what a discovery.
It means jack crap.

Yup...remember not too long ago, Price had "attitude" issues, immaturity if you'd like....now he's the best hockey player in the world. This is why you take the Bergevin approach and take your time, develop and stay patient!

 

[Ezpz]

Yup...remember not too long ago, Price had "attitude" issues, immaturity if you'd like....now he's the best hockey player in the world. This is why you take the Bergevin approach and take your time, develop and stay patient!

Bergevin isn't the one who chose to be patient with Carey. Gauthier deserves all of the credit for Carey Price.

 

[jaffy27]

Bergevin isn't the one who chose to be patient with Carey. Gauthier deserves all of the credit for Carey Price.

Never said Bergevin was the one that decided to be patient with him...and I'll give zero credit to Gauthier on the Carey front, What I did say verbatim is "you take the Bergevin approach"...in other words, fans and organizations in general should use Bergevin's philosophy of being patient and develop within as oppose to trading away a player at the first sight of controversy or set backs.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Bergevin isn't the one who chose to be patient with Carey. Gauthier deserves all of the credit for Carey Price.

Gauthier wasnt the GM at the time Price was picked, Gainey was.

Gauthier wasnt the one who made room for Price by letting Huet go, Gainey was.

 

[Ezpz]

Gauthier wasnt the GM at the time Price was picked, Gainey was.

Gauthier wasnt the one who made room for Price by letting Huet go, Gainey was.

Gainey tried to trade Price a couple times. Including for Lecavalier. Halak Price was the only relevant choice that happened in Price's career and it was 100% Gauthier.

 

[jaffy27]

Gauthier wasnt the GM at the time Price was picked, Gainey was.

Gauthier wasnt the one who made room for Price by letting Huet go, Gainey was.

Agreed...and Gauthier trading Halak over Price was as obvious as not booking a family summer vacation to Baghdad

 

[jaffy27]

Gainey tried to trade Price a couple times. Including for Lecavalier. Halak Price was the only relevant choice that happened in Price's career and it was 100% Gauthier.

A couple of times?? In all seriousness, when were those times?? (besides Lecavalier)

 

[Price is Wright]

Agreed...and Gauthier trading Halak over Price was as obvious as not booking a family summer vacation to Baghdad

Not at the time. Go back to the threads when it happened. The board here was a civil war. There was still a ton of Halak avatars after he was moved. There's a ton here I bet with Price avatars that wanted him traded and Halak kept.

 

[yianik]

Not at the time. Go back to the threads when it happened. The board here was a civil war. There was still a ton of Halak avatars after he was moved. There's a ton here I bet with Price avatars that wanted him traded and Halak kept.

This is accurate. Certainly among the fans moving Halak over Price was not considered a no brainer.

As an aside, I have never actually seen the details on the proposed Vinny trade the league is said to have cancelled, can anybody tell me the specifics ?

 

[Stan]

Not at the time. Go back to the threads when it happened. The board here was a civil war. There was still a ton of Halak avatars after he was moved. There's a ton here I bet with Price avatars that wanted him traded and Halak kept.

Yeah....I feel like people who wanted to keep Price over Halak were in the minority. It certainly wasn't a no-brainer. Even among the hockey commentators at the time...it was deemed a gamble.

 

[Andy]

Yeah....I feel like people who wanted to keep Price over Halak were in the minority. It certainly wasn't a no-brainer. Even among the hockey commentators at the time...it was deemed a gamble.

it's funny because last year Jacques Martin had an interview on Tsn 690. He said when it came to decide who to trade, Gauthier gathered the entire staff and it was unanimous that Price was the guy to keep. He mentioned how no one even hesitated for a second that Price was the goalie of the future.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

That's cool to know. I was a Price guy even after the 2010 playoffs

 

[jaffy27]

Not at the time. Go back to the threads when it happened. The board here was a civil war. There was still a ton of Halak avatars after he was moved. There's a ton here I bet with Price avatars that wanted him traded and Halak kept.

Ah yessss.....the Threads......all the armchair GM's that wanted Price traded over Halak who had a career year type playoff were blinded by short term heroics. But everyone who worked in the NHL knew who the superior goaltender was.

98 times out of 100 the guy drafted in the first round will outperform the guy drafted in the last round, you go with the odds, the potential and the track record, Price trumped Halak on all fronts, mind you Halak is a very good goaltender, at least to me and apparently the String Bean GM, it was an obvious choice.

I get your point though.....

 

[hototogisu]

Gainey tried to trade Price a couple times. Including for Lecavalier. Halak Price was the only relevant choice that happened in Price's career and it was 100% Gauthier.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

Price was Gainey's guy, 100%. Almost to a fault.

 

[bipolarhabfan]

I hear you, but let's look at the truth of the matter over those 8 years - we're not giving our scouting department many chances to hit home runs or even doubles. NHL offense is a problem but look how few swings we've taken since our famous 2007 draft. Number of forwards selected in the top 60:

2008: 1 (Kristo, traded)
2009: 1 (Leblanc, traded)
2010: 0
2011: 0
2012: 2 (Galchenyuk & Collberg, traded)
2013: 3 (McCarron, de la Rose, Lehkonen)
2014: 1 (Scherbak)
2015: 0

McCarron, Lehkonen and Scherbak are still in development so time will tell if they become NHLers for us and DLR is already an NHLer. So from 2008 to 2012, outside of Galchenyuk there's a huge void of nothingness. 2 busts and 1 traded prospect who is trending towards a bust. 8 picks in the first 2 rounds in the last 8 years is giving your scouting department an insanely slim margin for error. When you're relying on picks from rounds 3-7 to become your future top-six NHLers, you've already more or less lost that game. The fact that we even have Gallagher and hopefully Hudon from that crop is a small miracle in itself. No surprise our prospect pool hasn't really shown any fruits from those years - there weren't even any seeds to plant to begin with.

They may not have as much as the other teams to work with, but they still managed to draft 31 forwards since 2007.

I remember all the hype over players like Trunev, Avstin, Naatinen, etc. and nothing came from it. Years before you had Milroy and Maxwell. I have been hearing hype for years, but have seen a few rays of sunshine come from it.

Looking back 25 years the same trend of being unable to draft offense is evident. The only first-line players drafted in that time were Riberio, Pacioretty, Koivu, Galchenyuk, and maybe Plekanec and Ryder. This is a long time without drafting offense, and all this during a time when you had more chances to go to the plate, anywhere from 9 to 15 times. Indeed, the last players we have drafted that reached 40/50+ goals and 100+ points were Richer and Naslund. The Habs record on drafting offensive talent has been offensive.

EDIT: All of the draft picks traded by the Habs were as a result of poor drafting. They needed to trade picks in order to address a deficiency caused by drafting. Vanek and Petry are examples from the last couple of seasons.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Yeah....I feel like people who wanted to keep Price over Halak were in the minority. It certainly wasn't a no-brainer. Even among the hockey commentators at the time...it was deemed a gamble.

No offence, but anyone with the ability to think logically (rather than emotionally) knew this was a no-brainer from the beginning.

Seriously, even in hindsight, simply putting together a list of pros and cons for both goalies shows how obvious this decision was.

 

[29dryden29]

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[/B]

I do not for a second believe you on this as I regularly speak to an individual who was high in the organization at the time. Water boys and zamboni drivers don't count my friend.

You can believe what you want that is your right but this past March I was with a couple of the folks from the team and we discussed things at length. The things I was told were they have issues with American born players and their me first attitude. Kaner being Kaner was a talent enough to overlook it somewhat but others not so much.

 

[hototogisu]

They may not have as much as the other teams to work with, but they still managed to draft 31 forwards since 2007.

Right but what I was trying to point out is that not all draft picks are equal. 31 forwards doesn't give you 31 equally great chances to land an impact forward. 31 forwards when you've only culled 8 of those from the first 2 rounds means your chances are already greatly diminished.

I remember all the hype over players like Trunev, Avstin, Naatinen, etc. and nothing came from it. Years before you had Milroy and Maxwell. I have been hearing hype for years, but have seen a few rays of sunshine come from it.

But that's exactly what you're going to get from the later rounds - few rays of sunshine and not much more. For us or for any other team.

Looking back 25 years the same trend of being unable to draft offense is evident. The only first-line players drafted in that time were Riberio, Pacioretty, Koivu, Galchenyuk, and maybe Plekanec and Ryder. This is a long time without drafting offense, and all this during a time when you had more chances to go to the plate, anywhere from 9 to 15 times. Indeed, the last players we have drafted that reached 40/50+ goals and 100+ points were Richer and Naslund. The Habs record on drafting offensive talent has been offensive.

No question, I don't disagree that the offense has been lacking from our draft record. With Pacioretty, Gallagher and Galchenyuk drafted and playing in our top six (and Desharnais too if you want to count him as an undrafted prospect we developed) things are looking up. Not to mention the "too soon to tells" - Hudon, Andrighetto, McCarron, Reway, Scherbak, Lehkonen, etc. Let's hope there's something good in there. Although I think you're setting the bar extraordinarily high at 40-50 goals and 100+ points...how many guys hit those marks over the last few years and weren't top 5 picks? Probably not a huge amount.

EDIT: All of the draft picks traded by the Habs were as a result of poor drafting. They needed to trade picks in order to address a deficiency caused by drafting. Vanek and Petry are examples from the last couple of seasons.

I don't know if I'd go that far. No team has ever filled all their holes 100% via drafting at least. There are always deficiencies that you have to trade for.