Cam Talbot - Mod warning #251

[FLYLine27*]

People really need to cool their jets with Talbot's trade value expectations.

Scrivens had amazing stats in Quick's absence as a starter for the Kings last year. Fasth had good numbers in a significant number of games for the Ducks. Neither has worked out in Edmonton.

Point is, Talbot hasn't proven much more here than Scrivens at the time in LA. Oilers already got burned and despite Scrivens' numbers in LA, all he returned was I believe a 3rd round draft pick.

Talbot won't be the only guy potentially available in the summer. Hammond from Ottawa is slated to be UFA. They will also be moving either Anderson or more likely Lehner. Dubnyk is a UFA this summer. Lack is likely to be on the market in Vancouver. Check out Pickard's stats for Colorado this year. They don't need him long term with Varlamov there. Martin Jones is RFA in LA. There's Mrazek in Detroit. Tampa might throw Bishop on the market if he isn't great in the play-offs, with Vasilevsky in the fold already. Hell, our friend Scott Darling has great stats this year.

The goalie market is flooded. More goalies with potential than starting jobs at NHL level. I'm 99% sure most Talbot fans on this board will be disappointed with the return if he's traded.

Really? Those are some horrible examples.

Hammond is played a handful of games, and while he has played well, he is no way shape or form has locked up any type of starting goaltending role from that sample size. Lehner has yet to prove he can be a starting goalie and has had an off season. Dubnyk? I think his ship has sailed in Edm. Pickard why in gods earth would the Avs move him? He is 22 years old and has potential. Martin Jones? Another guy who has proved nothing. Mrazek..why exactly would would the Wings deal a good young backup goalie? Darling, again.. why would the Hawks trade a capable backup goalie? Bishop? Yea...he's not going anywhere.

And Scrivens was never a good goalie besides for when he played as a backup for 19 games one season with a stacked Kings defense.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

The leg up Talbot would have over those listed is he is signed for next year at a great cap hit. All those listed will be UFA (inflated price) or RFA (could refuse to sign of traded).

Also aside from Dubnyk, Talbot has arguably had the best season of all those listed as well.

Zero chance Bishop is dealt.

Not to mention the Oilers have been interested in Talbot.

 

[nyhockeyfan]

What I don't understand is how does Talbot go back to being a backup without his numbers suffering?

Hank is a seasoned veteran and missed only 6 weeks and everyone is prepared for him to be rusty. I assume this is because a lot of actual playing time is required to hone skills and stay sharp.

So if Talbot goes back to being a backup and playing the odd occasional game, shouldn't we expect his performance will be more similar to what occurred in the first few games of his extended run? How could he possibly stay sharp?

 

[strumwolf]

I'm not convinced that Talbot is an actual NHL starter. He has played well, very well but he has also had the benefit of playing with one of the best D corps in the league. To me, this has done a few things for him: boost his confidence, allow him to play more relaxed and concentrate on improving his positioning/puck control. If he gets in trouble the D can "bail" him out if needed.
I think we were lucky when Hank first went down, D was not playing great and I think the pressure of taking over got to Talbot. We were lucky because the O was scoring goals so we were able to overcome the deficits. Now obviously his game has improved, along with the D's overall game. There is a noticeable change in his positioning and puck control... great but for most of those well played games I don't feel he needed to make great saves, or he was the one keeping us in the game. Don't get me wrong, he made many fantastic saves but I feel most of what he had to do was rather "routine" as the D has tightened up. The Florida game is the only game in this stretch that I feel that Talbot won for us.
What I would want to see (hypothetically speaking of course) is Talbot playing behind a bad team. If he played many games at the same "high" level and kept his composure and confidence, then I would agree he is ready to be a starter.

Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic how he has played and is one of the reasons we have achieved what has been achieved but don't forget the team that is playing in front of him and he may be benefiting from the teams success.

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

Can someone explain to me, the hate towards Cam Talbot?

As Marc Staal said - He's an all star.

This should be a cam talbot appreciation thread. Those that are angry that he is playing better than Lundqvist need to take their discussion to the Lundqvist thread.

This is where we say thank you talbot, night in and night out.

Why are we making it so hard for people to like talbot?
Because we are simply stating facts.

Are you angry because he is not proven?
He has played 51 games in the past 2 years. How many games does he have to play?

People are complaining that Talbot has the best defence in front of him.
Lundqvist had the same team.

Lundqvist will be 34 next year. 34!!!

People were livid with me, when I said we should trade Callahan. Well guess what, we held on too long, to the point where he became valueless. The same will happen here.

 

[offdacrossbar]

this organization is in the drivers seat with cambot. as long as he doesnt **** himself before hank gets back, he's gonna fetch a good return.

his value is at its peak right now. he's built demand. he's shown he can be a #1. the less he plays going forward the better.

sell high.

 

[strumwolf]

this organization is in the drivers seat with cambot. as long as he doesnt **** himself before hank gets back, he's gonna fetch a good return.

his value is at its peak right now. he's built demand. he's shown he can be a #1. the less he plays going forward the better.

sell high.

I actually think we should keep Talbot until next years trade deadline at least. If Hank gets injured again we should have a guy we trust to step in.

 

[Elvis Presley]

Didn't see if it was mentioned. But if anyone remembers last season too, when Lundqvist was having a rough start, we straight up benched him and Talbot came and literally pulled us out of the slump, and play magnificently. Which is why we had all that great talk about signing him again in the offseason.

Then Lunqvist is injured this season, and Talbot shows again why is he a solid goalie. He had two ample opportunities in 2 seasons to prove he is better than a 'good backup', and has passed with flying colors. Has proven way more than the other guys listed above.

So what's the problem?

 

[Matt4776]

Can someone explain to me, the hate towards Cam Talbot?

As Marc Staal said - He's an all star.

This should be a cam talbot appreciation thread. Those that are angry that he is playing better than Lundqvist need to take their discussion to the Lundqvist thread.

This is where we say thank you talbot, night in and night out.

Why are we making it so hard for people to like talbot?
Because we are simply stating facts.

Are you angry because he is not proven?
He has played 51 games in the past 2 years. How many games does he have to play?

People are complaining that Talbot has the best defence in front of him.
Lundqvist had the same team.

Lundqvist will be 34 next year. 34!!!

People were livid with me, when I said we should trade Callahan. Well guess what, we held on too long, to the point where he became valueless. The same will happen here.

You joined at the beginning of this year, long after Callahan was traded. Strike one.

Next, nobody is angry at Talbot. That is ludicrous. In fact, we are thrilled.

It is because of you (and a couple of other posters) that this thread is not a Talbot love fest. After every time Talbot has a good game, instead of celebrating with the rest of us, you all instantly compare him to Hank and take some out of context stats that somehow proves Talbot is an superior goalie to Hank. And nobody is really upset that you have that opinion, they're just upset at how wrong and misguided it is and how you are using such out of context things in order to "prove" that.

Considering how Talbot is playing, I agree this should be a praise Talbot thread. So as long as you and your people stop bringing up Hank in a Talbot thread, this thread should go a lot smoother as the season goes on .

 

[offdacrossbar]

I actually think we should keep Talbot until next years trade deadline at least. If Hank gets injured again we should have a guy we trust to step in.

the hank injury was a fluke. pure and simple. hank has shown he's a pretty durable guy. he's in terrific shape and even at his age, he's got 3 more peak years left.

not only does talbot probably not want to be hanks backup forever, but we can't afford a backup with a bigger contract and we also can't afford to not move him when his value is at its highest.

we can sign someone else. backup goalies who can play the 2nd of a back to back or spell hank for a bit are there if we look. skaper may well be ready next fall as well. we have options.

talbot has been "the" guy here for a while. the league has taken notice. he's played his way to a chance to get a starter contract. there is demand. we can flip him for a pick which is good asset management 101.

keeping talbot is probably not the best move going forward.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Can someone explain to me, the hate towards Cam Talbot?

As Marc Staal said - He's an all star.

This should be a cam talbot appreciation thread. Those that are angry that he is playing better than Lundqvist need to take their discussion to the Lundqvist thread.

This is where we say thank you talbot, night in and night out.

Why are we making it so hard for people to like talbot?
Because we are simply stating facts.

Are you angry because he is not proven?
He has played 51 games in the past 2 years. How many games does he have to play?

People are complaining that Talbot has the best defence in front of him.
Lundqvist had the same team.

Lundqvist will be 34 next year. 34!!!

People were livid with me, when I said we should trade Callahan. Well guess what, we held on too long, to the point where he became valueless. The same will happen here.

Theres no hate. Things flare up because people say dumb things when comparing him to a hall of famer in Lundqvist.

Anyway, the guy has done a great job. But people need to take it easy regarding his small sample size in front of very very good Ranger teams the last couple of years.

Cam Talbot ever being a full time starter in the NHL is something thats very much up in the air. An argument that hes a better option than Lundqvist is so comical that it brings out emotion in people, but its not hate towards what Cams been doing.

 

[haveandare]

Can someone explain to me, the hate towards Cam Talbot?

As Marc Staal said - He's an all star.

This should be a cam talbot appreciation thread. Those that are angry that he is playing better than Lundqvist need to take their discussion to the Lundqvist thread.

This is where we say thank you talbot, night in and night out.

Why are we making it so hard for people to like talbot?
Because we are simply stating facts.

Are you angry because he is not proven?
He has played 51 games in the past 2 years. How many games does he have to play?

People are complaining that Talbot has the best defence in front of him.
Lundqvist had the same team.

Lundqvist will be 34 next year. 34!!!

People were livid with me, when I said we should trade Callahan. Well guess what, we held on too long, to the point where he became valueless. The same will happen here.

There is 0 hate for him. Like in any thread, and I really can't believe this has to be said as often as it does, people are allowed to hold whatever opinions they want on whatever player they want. You can think what you want, but you can't dictate what other people are allowed to think, neither can I, neither can anybody.

Marc Staal is his teammate. Teammates say nice things about other teammates all the time. Talbot is literally not an all star because he wasn't named to the all-star team. If "all star" means really great for about half a season, then sure he can be one, along with a lot of other goalies this year. Because he has been excellent for the short amount of time he's been the starter.

This is where we discuss Talbot, period. You discuss what you want about him, others will discuss what they want about him. No one poster gets to set the terms that are allowed to be up for discussion.

You and others are stating woefully incomplete facts that ignore huge amounts of context, and then refuse to acknowledge that when it's pointed out.

Am I angry that he's not proven? Not at all. Him being unproven is simply a fact - it doesn't make me angry or sad or happy, it just is. 51 games isn't enough to determine what a goalie is for their career. There have been countless goalies over the past few years alone who went crazy hot for entire seasons only to cool down and be average. Being a top tier NHL goalie is about consistency over hundreds and hundreds of games - something Hank has shown to a nearly historic degree and Talbot hasn't yet come close to being able to demonstrate.

I'm pretty sure nobody was livid about trading Callahan. I remember almost everybody coming to terms with the fact that he had to go because his demands were high and weren't moving. Very few people were in favor of paying him what he was asking for.

 

[Quinnisinoverhishead]

You joined at the beginning of this year, long after Callahan was traded. Strike one.

Next, nobody is angry at Talbot. That is ludicrous. In fact, we are thrilled.

It is because of you (and a couple of other posters) that this thread is not a Talbot love fest. After every time Talbot has a good game, instead of celebrating with the rest of us, you all instantly compare him to Hank and take some out of context stats that somehow proves Talbot is an superior goalie to Hank. And nobody is really upset that you have that opinion, they're just upset at how wrong and misguided it is and how you are using such out of context things in order to "prove" that.

Considering how Talbot is playing, I agree this should be a praise Talbot thread. So as long as you and your people stop bringing up Hank in a Talbot thread, this thread should go a lot smoother as the season goes on .

I had a different account before.. I couldn't remember use name or password.. because it's been so long. Strike 1? Lol what are we 6?

Secondly.. All we are doing is pulling up facts and stats to back up our thoughts and opinions.

If you have a problem with facts, it's not my fault.
Sorry.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I had a different account before.. I couldn't remember use name or password.. because it's been so long. Strike 1? Lol what are we 6?

Secondly.. All we are doing is pulling up facts and stats to back up our thoughts and opinions.

If you have a problem with facts, it's not my fault.
Sorry.

Comparing Talbot's save % in 51 games vs. Lundqvist's save % in 613 games might technically be "facts," but its also a horrendous argument when trying to put 2 goalies against one another - especially when one is a future Hall of Famer who has done it for 10 years and counting.

 

[Matt4776]

I had a different account before.. I couldn't remember use name or password.. because it's been so long. Strike 1? Lol what are we 6?

Secondly.. All we are doing is pulling up facts and stats to back up our thoughts and opinions.

If you have a problem with facts, it's not my fault.
Sorry.

You are allowed to do whatever you please with "facts". But don't be surprised when people call you out on it.

Nobody started talking about Hank in this thread until you guys brought him up.

 

[Cassano]

Wow that M.Staal quote is almost as absurd as Seguin's quote on Girardi. Almost.

 

[pld459666]

I actually think we should keep Talbot until next years trade deadline at least. If Hank gets injured again we should have a guy we trust to step in.

his value will never be higher than it is between now and the draft.

With a full year at 1.45 a team gets to see what he can do as a full time starter on the cheap before hitting him on the head with a much larger multi year contract.

I understand the desire for that kind of support for next year but if you can flip him for a top 60 selection and a marginal prospect, it's a deal you have to make.

 

[Captain Lindy]

Talbot owns the Islanders. Keep him in any way possible. End of argument.

 

[strumwolf]

his value will never be higher than it is between now and the draft.

With a full year at 1.45 a team gets to see what he can do as a full time starter on the cheap before hitting him on the head with a much larger multi year contract.

I understand the desire for that kind of support for next year but if you can flip him for a top 60 selection and a marginal prospect, it's a deal you have to make.

I get it. I also wonder if we are overvaluing him because he has played well and we need picks. Time will tell I guess.

 

[offdacrossbar]

im all for letting another team over value cam talbot.

 

[nyrangersfan39]

I've been lurking for awhile, and I have to break my silence again. This thread is getting out of hand. And as an individual who's very passionate about goalies, I must say something.

For all the Talbot lovers here, who here actually played goalie here? I like Cam, and I love the fact that he's been so great for us during Henk's absence. For sure he has proved me wrong. However, comparing him to #30 and some people thinking he's as good, are delusional.

Goaltending is a very unique position. It is a position which takes the longest to develop. Furthermore, it is a position where your drafted position does not matter as much. If so, Trevor Kidd (11th pick overall 1990 draft) would have succeeded over Brodeur (20th overall). There are so many failed 1st round picks: Marek Schwarz, Al Montoya, Maxime Oullet etc ... The list goes on. It is a position which requires maturity, patience, persistence, luck, team structure, timing, all impacts the development. By the way, Cujo, Eddie the Eagle were not drafted.

In the end, you just cannot compare Cam's 50+ starts to Hank's career. Heck, you can't even compare one full season as well. Have we forgotten about Steve Mason, Andrew Raycroft (both calder winners), Brian Boucher, David Aebischer, Roman Turek, Roman Cechmanek, Steve Shields, Jim Carey (Vezina winner), Jose Theodore (Hart and Vezina winner) need I go on? All these goalies were once considered as up-and coming goalies and elites for a season or two. Heck, I'll even throw Halak, Elliot and Lalime in there.

I don't think posters here hate Cam. It just that we cannot right now compare him to Henk yet. Now, can Cam succeed? maybe (although I'm not fully sold on him). The situation reminds me of Hasek and Belfour in 1990. Who would have thought the Blackshawks had 2 HOF goalies Now, when it comes to why I'm not fully sold on Cam, that's a different story

Finally, it took at least 3 years for me to buy into Henk. Cam has been great so far. But let's not get carried away, for now ...

 

[Siddi]

Can someone explain to me, the hate towards Cam Talbot?

As Marc Staal said - He's an all star.

This should be a cam talbot appreciation thread. Those that are angry that he is playing better than Lundqvist need to take their discussion to the Lundqvist thread.

This is where we say thank you talbot, night in and night out.

Why are we making it so hard for people to like talbot?
Because we are simply stating facts.

Are you angry because he is not proven?
He has played 51 games in the past 2 years. How many games does he have to play?

People are complaining that Talbot has the best defence in front of him.
Lundqvist had the same team.

Lundqvist will be 34 next year. 34!!!

People were livid with me, when I said we should trade Callahan. Well guess what, we held on too long, to the point where he became valueless. The same will happen here.

You have already been called out and rightfully so by other posters so i will leave it at that but for the love of all that is holy please get it in your head that the point is moot when it comes to moving Hank. He sits on a FULL NMC!

 

[NYRangers84]

Comparing Talbot's save % in 51 games vs. Lundqvist's save % in 613 games might technically be "facts," but its also a horrendous argument when trying to put 2 goalies against one another - especially when one is a future Hall of Famer who has done it for 10 years and counting.

Uhh nobody is comparing their careers against each other. I'm comparing these last 2 seasons. Talbot has been better since last season, plain and simple.

 

[Hire Sather]

Uhh nobody is comparing their careers against each other. I'm comparing these last 2 seasons. Talbot has been better since last season, plain and simple.

So his career?

 

[Matt4776]

Uhh nobody is comparing their careers against each other. I'm comparing these last 2 seasons. Talbot has been better since last season, plain and simple.