Proposal: Calgary - New Jersey (Markstrom and Hanifin to NJ)

[Double Dion]

Flames can dream on. No way they fetch that kind of return.

It wasn't a Flames fan who posted the offer. In a world where Monahan got a 1st anything is possible.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Pass pass pass....Let season play out this type of a trade is made by a team who's window is closing not opening....

 

[CanadienShark]

It wasn't a Flames fan who posted the offer. In a world where Monahan got a 1st anything is possible.

That's some weird logic.

 

[Double Dion]

That's some weird logic.

Not really when a very poor defensive forward who skates poorly and produces secondary offense brings in a 1st an actual good player should go for more.

 

[CanadienShark]

Not really when a very poor defensive forward who skates poorly and produces secondary offense brings in a 1st an actual good player should go for more.

Markstrom doesn't hold much value. A 1st would be a massive longshot for him. Hanifin doesn't hold the value of the rest of the deal. Neither makes sense long term for the Devils, and you'd be gutting their long term future for a half assed attempt now. Again, the Flames can dream about that type of return, but it won't happen. Citing a totally irrelevant example in Monahan does not help your case.

 

[Double Dion]

Markstrom doesn't hold much value. A 1st would be a massive longshot for him. Hanifin doesn't hold the value of the rest of the deal. Neither makes sense long term for the Devils, and you'd be gutting their long term future for a half assed attempt now. Again, the Flames can dream about that type of return, but it won't happen. Citing a totally irrelevant example in Monahan does not help your case.

I agree that Monahan is an irrelevant player. The Jets have found that out the hard way already.

Markstrom will be a Vezina candidate for the 2nd time in the last 3 years. How do you figure he has no value?

 

[NJDevils#4]

How the hell would we afford that

 

[dirtydanglez]

this is a move nj should have looked into a month ago at the latest. now they are 11th in the east and the team looks like they checked out for the season. if they make a move they should do it asap, they are 5 points behind the last playoff spot which is a lot to make up in 30ish games.

 

[Smitty426]

Markstrom doesn't hold much value. A 1st would be a massive longshot for him. Hanifin doesn't hold the value of the rest of the deal. Neither makes sense long term for the Devils, and you'd be gutting their long term future for a half assed attempt now. Again, the Flames can dream about that type of return, but it won't happen. Citing a totally irrelevant example in Monahan does not help your case.

Would love for you to be right, just not sure of that. Hanifin woukd not beva rental imo. How do you see it as half assed? Markstrom allows us to compete while letting the younger Gs to cook in Utica. Hanifin is a top 3-4 in the style we need, active D great skater. Our outlet passes suck at the moment Noah fixes that. I dont see young Devs bring able to command a deep playoff run for a couple yrs, these moves solidify that. Prospect pool is already up here so we have to let what we have grow now

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Close in terms of value. How about both of them and our 2024 1st round pick for Nemec?

respectfully, there isnt a realistic package Calgary could put together for me to trade Nemec.

Also, the Devils just let Severson walk so I have no idea why they would want or need a very similar player in Hanifin.

 

[Double Dion]

respectfully, there isnt a realistic package Calgary could put together for me to trade Nemec.

Also, the Devils just let Severson walk so I have no idea why they would want or need a very similar player in Hanifin.

If you think Hanifin and Severson are similar you haven't seen much of Hanifin or looked at any analytics. One is an elite shutdown defenseman who brings some offense. The other brings some offense.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If you think Hanifin and Severson are similar you haven't seen much of Hanifin or looked at any analytics. One is an elite shutdown defenseman who brings some offense. The other brings some offense.

lol what

past 3 seasons at 5 on 5:

Severson-53.3% CF%, 28.38 SA/60, 54.8 xG%, HDCA/60 9.89

Hanifin- 52.99% CF%, 28.93 SA/60, 54.34 xG%, HDCA/60 10.57


they are very, very similar players.

 

[Double Dion]

lol what

past 3 seasons at 5 on 5:

Severson-53.3% CF%, 28.38 SA/60, 54.8 xG%, HDCA/60 9.89

Hanifin- 52.99% CF%, 28.93 SA/60, 54.34 xG%, HDCA/60 10.57


they are very, very similar players.

No they aren't. Hanifin has seen the 2nd highest number of shifts against elite competition in the league over the past 3 seasons. Only Tanev is higher and barely. Severson sees creampuff minutes and slightly skewed Ozone deployment. Corsi is only relevant in context and xG% isn't a relevant stat at all, JFresh made it famous because people too slow for real data couldn't understand. Easily the most flawed of advanced stat models. Severson also plays less, doesn't kill penalties and give up almost a full goal more per 60 than Hanifin. They aren't remotely comparable. It's like saying Kadri is comparable to Crosby.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

you keep telling yourself that my guy

 

[Double Dion]

you keep telling yourself that my guy

The data tells us that. Facts don't care about feelings. There is a reason no one except Columbus (worst run org in the league) was interested at his ask. There's a reason you got a 3rd round pick for him. Wait and see what Hanifin gets at the deadline with no team control.

 

[Forge]

The data tells us that. Facts don't care about feelings. There is a reason no one except Columbus (worst run org in the league) was interested at his ask. There's a reason you got a 3rd round pick for him. Wait and see what Hanifin gets at the deadline with no team control.

They traded his rights for a third round pick....they didn't even trade him as a rental. We have no idea who has interested in him at his ask, he never actually made it to free agency.

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume they would have gotten a legit return if they had moved him as a rental.

I'm all for supporting your dude, but no need to be disingenuous in the arguments

 

[Double Dion]

They traded his rights for a third round pick....they didn't even trade him as a rental. We have no idea who has interested in him at his ask, he never actually made it to free agency.

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume they would have gotten a legit return if they had moved him as a rental.

I'm all for supporting your dude, but no need to be disingenuous in the arguments

No they traded him signed for a 3rd round pick. He likely goes for more as a rental. That I'd agree with. It's not disingenuous, they traded a player signed to an 8 year deal at far less than Hanifin will make this offseason.

Do you think a guy who plays the 5th hardest minutes ON HIS TEAM is as good as Hanifin? I mean you guys had a front row seat to him utterly dominating one of the best players in the league just 2 days ago.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The data tells us that. Facts don't care about feelings. There is a reason no one except Columbus (worst run org in the league) was interested at his ask. There's a reason you got a 3rd round pick for him. Wait and see what Hanifin gets at the deadline with no team control.

lol @ you thinking that deadline prices are the same as trading for rights

you have a blessed evening!

 

[Forge]

No they traded him signed for a 3rd round pick. He likely goes for more as a rental. That I'd agree with. It's not disingenuous, they traded a player signed to an 8 year deal at far less than Hanifin will make this offseason.

Do you think a guy who plays the 5th hardest minutes ON HIS TEAM is as good as Hanifin? I mean you guys had a front row seat to him utterly dominating one of the best players in the league just 2 days ago.

Yeah, it's totally disingenuous. They weren't signing him to that contract. He was going to walk. It was his "rights" and the 8th year on the contract....I do think that is important to keep in mind and I didn't acknowledge that. His rights alone probably get less. But using his trade value in comparison to what Hanafin will get is just a bad take because those trades aren't remotely the same. So that's just a bad argument.

Saying that nobody was interested in him at his ask when he never hit the market is also a faulty step.

I never said anything about who was better. I don't care. I was just saying that some of your arguments to support that (namely severson's trade return and "market") were bad arguments for what you want to support

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Hanifin was 27-23 CF overall in the game 2 nights ago, and 10-14 CF against Hughes. What are you talking about?

"utterly dominating" lmao

 

[Double Dion]

lol @ you thinking that deadline prices are the same as trading for rights

you have a blessed evening!

You have a blessed evening too. He was traded with an 8 year deal. Even talking about trade value was probably silly. The facts on the ice speak for themselves. Erik Gudbransson (our former #6 defenseman) plays harder minutes than Severson.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

Dawson Mercer for Markstrom

1 for 1

 

[Double Dion]

Hanifin was 27-23 CF overall in the game 2 nights ago, and 10-14 CF against Hughes. What are you talking about?

"utterly dominating" lmao

Utterly dominating. CF is a good stat. If you take out the PP and factor in the zone starts you'll see a 59% corsi share for Hanifin.

Dawson Mercer for Markstrom

1 for 1

I'd do that. NJ would be dumb to I think.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

Utterly dominating. CF is a good stat. If you take out the PP and factor in the zone starts you'll see a 59% corsi share for Hanifin.


I'd do that. NJ would be dumb to I think.

Don't wanna be mean but Mercer is a wildly inconsistent player. I think Sharangovich will be a better player for y'all than Mercer. Why? Sharangovich has more skill and talent. Mercer is the prototypical hard worker inconsistent player. He will never be a 70 pt player and he's quite overrated. He's benefitting largely from a league that is high scoring with poor defensive play. He'd never succeed outside of the tik tok generation.

 

[Double Dion]

Don't wanna be mean but Mercer is a wildly inconsistent player. I think Sharangovich will be a better player for y'all than Mercer. Why? Sharangovich has more skill and talent. Mercer is the prototypical hard worker inconsistent player. He will never be a 70 pt player and he's quite overrated. He's benefitting largely from a league that is high scoring with poor defensive play. He'd never succeed outside of the tik tok generation.

I like his game. A lot of young players are inconsistent. It's why it's hard to win until they mature a bit. Backlund was inconsistent as a young player and he's the model of consistency now. I just think you don't trade a young C with potential for a goalie. I do think NJ would be smart to pick up Markstrom, just not at the cost of Mercer. They are better off dealing future draft picks or prospects that are a ways away from helping a NHL roster.