Proposal: Calgary Flames Offseason Re-Tool

[Yepthatsme]

Honestly I think we are way closer in our valuations tho if you think the Monahan trade is fine. The Mantha/Rakell deal was more of targeting an area of need but if you're low on those guys in terms of being core guys thats super fair and not my first choice, I just think both guys have long-term RW1 upside whereas Rasmus tops out as a good RD2. Monahan for futures isn't lateral tho so we both agree to sell what we can. I also don't think we should sell everyone I really don't but I'm not opposed to trading our overvalued C's and replacing them. I think that's a better strategy then just sticking with it when we suck and could at least add a 1st+prospect or 2. Also not saying they have to be deadline moves but summer for sure gotta make some moves. As for adding Danault, he's a polarizing player who some people don't think moves the needle and others (like Nathan Mackinnon) view him as one of the hardest C's to play against in the whole league. I'm definitely on Nathan's side for this one lolol. Like Backlund 4 years ago and a UFA who we can sign to a similar deal while shipping out one of the existing C's for a 1st+. Not sure how that's lateral when we're actually getting younger and adding 1st+

So basically we go from being a 3 line team with one of those lines being offensively challenged currently to being a two line team with one of them having an offensively challenged centre? I guess we also swap our best RD for a new top RD that’s 3 years older? That’s not just shuffling deck chairs, you accidentally threw a couple over the fence while you were at it.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

So basically we go from being a 3 line team with one of those lines being offensively challenged currently to being a two line team with one of them having an offensively challenged centre? I guess we also swap our best RD for a new top RD that’s 3 years older? That’s not just shuffling deck chairs, you accidentally threw a couple over the fence while you were at it.

Jeez. Referring to Danault as an offensively challenged C when he's legitamitely the #1 C on a playoff team with no star players and we're genuinely a 0-line team on pace to finish 30th has gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever read. In that case Gaudreau should be described as a defensively challenged winger lol, just completely missing the point of his actual value. All i can say is have you watched Monahan or Danault since 2018? Rasmus is also for sure our 2nd best RD, and since our top pairing is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE with him on it 100% ya i wanna swap our 'best' RD for a way better RD lol. Dumba is in another tier than Rasmus. Do you really just ignore how bad we are and still believe we're a 'three line team'? Did you listen to Sutter's presser this morning? Said we have 0 30 goal scores on this team and that Gaudreau and Monahan have been consistently not a top-line all year. Said Monahan specifically doesn't have enough pace and that his game falls off as the game goes on. We are currently a 2-line team lol and one of those lines has Lucic hahaha. My god what a terrible valuation of Danault and Dumba hahah. 'Offensively challenged' Danault has been considered by Mackinnon as the most underrated to play against C in the league, is trusted as the #1 C (in terms of TOI and usage) on a playoff team and consistently out-matches opposing top-lines 5v5. So... which set of evidence do I consider? Montreal's management that plays Danault as a 1C, Danault killing it at 1C, Montreal being a playoff team, Mackinnon saying he's the hardest C to play against, a top player by any advanced stat you look at, and Sutter's comments about how we actually aren't a 'three-line team' or some guy on a forum named Yepthatsme who has a vendetta against my proposals and Philip Danault lol. AND Danault could be our 2C lol. Do you wanna ever give Johnny some two-way studs or do you just prefer the Monahan's/ Ferlands/ Hudlers/ Ritchies that have effectively ruined much of his prime and our contention window?

 

[Bond]

That is a whole lot of words to try and spin Danault as a point producer and #1c. He is basically the Habs version of Backlund. It is not a bad thing but expecting him to put up a lot of points will lead to disappointment and if he is the #1c on the team then they aren't a contender. Danault is 28 and 53 points in 81 games was his best season two years ago and is in 8th place on the Habs for points.

 

[Ainsy01]

I think its time to go all-in for Eichel. I would do Gaudreau + Monahan and whatever the F else they asked for him.

I would prefer that over trading them for picks and extending the rebuild from its already **checks notes** eighth consecutive year.

 

[Fatass]

I think its time to go all-in for Eichel. I would do Gaudreau + Monahan and whatever the F else they asked for him.

I would prefer that over trading them for picks and extending the rebuild from its already **checks notes** eighth consecutive year.

How much more term do Gaudreau and Monahan have before they hit UFA? It’s not that much, right? Good players for sure, but I think the Sabres would want young guys, who they know they can keep longer term.

 

[Ainsy01]

2 years after this for Mona and 1 year after this for Gaudreau. Not ideal, but prospects could be added

 

[Volica]

I think its time to go all-in for Eichel. I would do Gaudreau + Monahan and whatever the F else they asked for him.

I would prefer that over trading them for picks and extending the rebuild from its already **checks notes** eighth consecutive year.

I think Calgary's move here is to tank as much as possible, and position themselves best for a top 2 pick at the draft.

Gotta think the Sabres would be more inclined to be interested in a deal that would net them 2 of the top 3 picks on the draft floor as a franchise restart.

For example, if Calgary wins 2nd overall; the offer of:

2021 2nd overall, Sean Monahan & Adders

for

Jack Eichel

If that's a no go, in terms of value, not sure there's anything that we could offer could be. And if that's a no, Calgary makes that draft pick and hits the reset themselves.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I still dont think we should rebuild. Like you pointed out from previous posts I've made, we just invested 10.5M into 2 30+ players. But you also didnt retool here either.
You sold Monahan for some futures to a win now team that lavks a legitimate 2C. Sure, thats fine and makes sense, I'mmore open to mobing Monahan now than I was a year ago. I personally think Lundell is close to NHL ready (but not cup winning 2C ready) and would rather try and get him and a capdump like Stralmam.

The issue is you moved Backlund and a 1st for a RD we dont need to then move Ras for a RHS LW we dont need. Would you really rather have Dumba and Rakell over Backlund, Ras, and a 1st? I know I wouldn't. Ras is having a bad year but hes also stapled to Gio who is playing even worse.

Lol you’re more open to trading Monahan now than a year ago? Shocking. Maybe you realized you were completely overvaluing him and now that he’s hit rock bottom you’re ‘more open’ to moving him while he’s lost literally 75% of his perceived value? Not to be a dick but you gave me such a hard time last summer and you have to admit your player valuation was off.

just the same way you’re gonna look back on shitting on a Backlund+Late first for Dumba trade and realize that woulda been larceny for us and only ever happen Cause Minnesota is up against the wall w expansion (and even then they’d find a better offer). It’s about maximizing value of assets when we’re a struggling middle-of-the-pack team. I fully admit the Rakell deal was shortsighted and I would never have pulled trigger cause the risk he leaves as a UFA in a year, but if that was Garland, Reinhart, or Arvidsson I 100% consider doing that 1 for 1 for Ras so long as we are able to upgrade the RD spot first . Would I prefer Dumba, one of those RW’s, cap space for Danault/Lowry/Schwartz/Hyman, and Denisenko over Monahan, Ras, Backlund? Every single day and twice on Sunday

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Lol you’re more open to trading Monahan now than a year ago? Shocking. Maybe you realized you were completely overvaluing him and now that he’s hit rock bottom you’re ‘more open’ to moving him while he’s lost literally 75% of his perceived value? Not to be a dick but you gave me such a hard time last summer and you have to admit your player valuation was off.

just the same way you’re gonna look back on shitting on a Backlund+Late first for Dumba trade and realize that woulda been larceny for us and only ever happen Cause Minnesota is up against the wall w expansion (and even then they’d find a better offer). It’s about maximizing value of assets when we’re a struggling middle-of-the-pack team. I fully admit the Rakell deal was shortsighted and I would never have pulled trigger cause the risk he leaves as a UFA in a year, but if that was Garland, Reinhart, or Arvidsson I 100% consider doing that 1 for 1 for Ras so long as we are able to upgrade the RD spot first . Would I prefer Dumba, one of those RW’s, cap space for Danault/Lowry/Schwartz/Hyman, and Denisenko over Monahan, Ras, Backlund? Every single day and twice on Sunday

So now this is a personal attack? I don't think my perceived value's were off at all. Also he hasn't lost 75% of his value, that's like saying Brayden Schenn's value has tanked because St. Louis as a team has underperformed this year.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

So now this is a personal attack? I don't think my perceived value's were off at all. Also he hasn't lost 75% of his value, that's like saying Brayden Schenn's value has tanked because St. Louis as a team has underperformed this year.

No no personal attacks like you take at my proposals in most threads lol. But ya no this isn't like Brayden Schenn at all hahahaha what. If we won the cup 2 years ago and Monahan was a key reason why then maybe ya we hold onto him through a down year. But it's literally not comparable at all because Monahan is at the root of our struggles for multiple seasons and is having without a doubt the worst individual season of his career. If our team was playing well but our top-line was playing the way it is I'd say the same thing. I'm not blaming all our team's struggles on Monahan, but I sure am blaming Monahan's struggles and first-line regression and huge drop in production on Monahan.

I'm also not saying you are a bad talent evaluator or anything at all I honestly do respect your opinions but I just think in this instance you can't be like 'I'm more open to trading him now than a year ago' as if that isn't bad asset management. Like we literally would be selling way way lower now that he's struggled and of course since he struggled we're way more willing to move him. That's like us saying we're way more willing to move Gio now than last year. Like dub but the issue is we won't get the value we could've. Which is why imo its so important not to be too high on ur own players when they show red flags like Monahan always has in terms of his meh skating, wrist injuries, and lack of a two-way game.

 

[Fig]

I think Calgary's move here is to tank as much as possible, and position themselves best for a top 2 pick at the draft.

Gotta think the Sabres would be more inclined to be interested in a deal that would net them 2 of the top 3 picks on the draft floor as a franchise restart.

For example, if Calgary wins 2nd overall; the offer of:

2021 2nd overall, Sean Monahan & Adders

for

Jack Eichel

If that's a no go, in terms of value, not sure there's anything that we could offer could be. And if that's a no, Calgary makes that draft pick and hits the reset themselves.

Who TF is Adders?

EDIT: Oh, you mean + extra value

Long day for me, sorry.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Jeez. Referring to Danault as an offensively challenged C when he's legitamitely the #1 C on a playoff team with no star players and we're genuinely a 0-line team on pace to finish 30th has gotta be the stupidest thing I've ever read. In that case Gaudreau should be described as a defensively challenged winger lol, just completely missing the point of his actual value. All i can say is have you watched Monahan or Danault since 2018? Rasmus is also for sure our 2nd best RD, and since our top pairing is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE with him on it 100% ya i wanna swap our 'best' RD for a way better RD lol. Dumba is in another tier than Rasmus. Do you really just ignore how bad we are and still believe we're a 'three line team'? Did you listen to Sutter's presser this morning? Said we have 0 30 goal scores on this team and that Gaudreau and Monahan have been consistently not a top-line all year. Said Monahan specifically doesn't have enough pace and that his game falls off as the game goes on. We are currently a 2-line team lol and one of those lines has Lucic hahaha. My god what a terrible valuation of Danault and Dumba hahah. 'Offensively challenged' Danault has been considered by Mackinnon as the most underrated to play against C in the league, is trusted as the #1 C (in terms of TOI and usage) on a playoff team and consistently out-matches opposing top-lines 5v5. So... which set of evidence do I consider? Montreal's management that plays Danault as a 1C, Danault killing it at 1C, Montreal being a playoff team, Mackinnon saying he's the hardest C to play against, a top player by any advanced stat you look at, and Sutter's comments about how we actually aren't a 'three-line team' or some guy on a forum named Yepthatsme who has a vendetta against my proposals and Philip Danault lol. AND Danault could be our 2C lol. Do you wanna ever give Johnny some two-way studs or do you just prefer the Monahan's/ Ferlands/ Hudlers/ Ritchies that have effectively ruined much of his prime and our contention window?

Wow that was quite the rant because I called a “1C on a playoff team” on pace for 44 points in 82 games and has a career high of 53 points offensively challenged, and because I think replacing Monahan as one of our centers in our top nine with Bennett makes 1 of those 3 lines a lot worse.

Backlund is actually outpacing Danault in points as a 3C (in TOI and usage) playing on the line that has Lucic which you found hilarious, and gives us comparable defense for cheaper than what it would take to sign Danault.

Don’t know why you think I have a vendetta against you, I just didn’t like the idea of giving away our players for pennies on the dollar to ice a worse team. You were right I shouldn’t of called Anderson our best RD, but why are we trading 21 minute a night 24 year old right RD for a second line winger with 1 year left? Then send our best 2 way C out to get an older replacement who is currently better, but who knows by how much as Anderson progresses and gets used to being on a pseudo top pair. Then to top it all off we trade a top 6C with a couple season of 70-80 points seasons even if he’s regressed since then for practically a RW prospect?

Our team goes from having Lindholm-Monahan-Backlund down the middle to Lindholm-Danault-Bennett, all just to give those 2 centers who are undoubtedly worse at offense better RWs.

 

[Yepthatsme]

No no personal attacks like you take at my proposals in most threads lol. But ya no this isn't like Brayden Schenn at all hahahaha what. If we won the cup 2 years ago and Monahan was a key reason why then maybe ya we hold onto him through a down year. But it's literally not comparable at all because Monahan is at the root of our struggles for multiple seasons and is having without a doubt the worst individual season of his career. If our team was playing well but our top-line was playing the way it is I'd say the same thing. I'm not blaming all our team's struggles on Monahan, but I sure am blaming Monahan's struggles and first-line regression and huge drop in production on Monahan.

I'm also not saying you are a bad talent evaluator or anything at all I honestly do respect your opinions but I just think in this instance you can't be like 'I'm more open to trading him now than a year ago' as if that isn't bad asset management. Like we literally would be selling way way lower now that he's struggled and of course since he struggled we're way more willing to move him. That's like us saying we're way more willing to move Gio now than last year. Like dub but the issue is we won't get the value we could've. Which is why imo its so important not to be too high on ur own players when they show red flags like Monahan always has in terms of his meh skating, wrist injuries, and lack of a two-way game.

Don’t really think it’s fair to say as much as Monahans struggled that he is the root of all our problems when all our stars sans Lindholm are also having down years, Brett Ritchie is currently a top line winger on this team, and Lucic and Bennett are on two of our other 3 lines. I just don’t understand why to solution is to dismantle our centres to slightly improve our RW, and trying to fix our 1B pair by replacing the young guy with potential instead of the old guy faltering.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No no personal attacks like you take at my proposals in most threads lol. But ya no this isn't like Brayden Schenn at all hahahaha what. If we won the cup 2 years ago and Monahan was a key reason why then maybe ya we hold onto him through a down year. But it's literally not comparable at all because Monahan is at the root of our struggles for multiple seasons and is having without a doubt the worst individual season of his career. If our team was playing well but our top-line was playing the way it is I'd say the same thing. I'm not blaming all our team's struggles on Monahan, but I sure am blaming Monahan's struggles and first-line regression and huge drop in production on Monahan.

I'm also not saying you are a bad talent evaluator or anything at all I honestly do respect your opinions but I just think in this instance you can't be like 'I'm more open to trading him now than a year ago' as if that isn't bad asset management. Like we literally would be selling way way lower now that he's struggled and of course since he struggled we're way more willing to move him. That's like us saying we're way more willing to move Gio now than last year. Like dub but the issue is we won't get the value we could've. Which is why imo its so important not to be too high on ur own players when they show red flags like Monahan always has in terms of his meh skating, wrist injuries, and lack of a two-way game.

Brayden Schenn was just 1 example. St. Louis and Calgary aren't the only teams underperforming this year; Dallas, Philly, and Vancouver are as well. I could use the exact same example for Schenn on Bo Horvat. Horvat has 27 points in 37 games which isn't that far off of Monahan's 23 in 38. That difference can basically be summed up in Bo's 16.7% shooting percent vs Sean's 8.2%.

A year ago I considered this core to still have cup contender potential in them, I still think on paper they do. However it is a pretty clear drive issue with the team. They lack motivation and aren't trying to win. They seem to have good starts in games but struggle with adversity, and since this Canadian division has 4-5 top 10 centers in the league all playing in it, they will face adversity every other game. We saw it last night, Calgary had momentum vs Toronto and then Toronto scored against the flow of the play. Calgary then basically lost all hope from that.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Monahan

for

5 packs of Mint Juul Pods

 

[Volica]

Who TF is Adders?

EDIT: Oh, you mean + extra value

Long day for me, sorry.

I’m triggered.

 

[AKL]

Monahan

for

5 packs of Mint Juul Pods

I'll do 4 packs of mint and 1 cotton candy, final offer.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

I'll do 4 packs of mint and 1 cotton candy, final offer.

Tough call but honestly don’t think the value is there. Gonna have to throw in an extra charger

 

[nickschultzfan]

Lol you’re more open to trading Monahan now than a year ago? Shocking. Maybe you realized you were completely overvaluing him and now that he’s hit rock bottom you’re ‘more open’ to moving him while he’s lost literally 75% of his perceived value? Not to be a dick but you gave me such a hard time last summer and you have to admit your player valuation was off.

just the same way you’re gonna look back on shitting on a Backlund+Late first for Dumba trade and realize that woulda been larceny for us and only ever happen Cause Minnesota is up against the wall w expansion (and even then they’d find a better offer). It’s about maximizing value of assets when we’re a struggling middle-of-the-pack team. I fully admit the Rakell deal was shortsighted and I would never have pulled trigger cause the risk he leaves as a UFA in a year, but if that was Garland, Reinhart, or Arvidsson I 100% consider doing that 1 for 1 for Ras so long as we are able to upgrade the RD spot first . Would I prefer Dumba, one of those RW’s, cap space for Danault/Lowry/Schwartz/Hyman, and Denisenko over Monahan, Ras, Backlund? Every single day and twice on Sunday

Minnesota is not up against much of a wall. They can protect 8 skaters including Dumba if Parise waives, which is very possible. Even if Seattle takes Dumba, as hard as that would be, it would give them $6m in cap to re-sign Kaprizov, Fiala, and Erickson Ek and Soucy or Addison would slide into their top-4.

 

[TFHockey]

As stated by other posters in this thread and others I believe Calgary should be trying to move Heaven and Earth to acquire Eichel. He is the star they can build around. A franchise guy. We'd also get a really good McDavid/Eichel rivalry. Great for the entire province.

Obviously the price would be high. Really high.