Calgary Flames 2014 Draft Thread Part 1

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Gritty

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Nov 28, 2011
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Oilers built their team around small skilled wingers/centres...

Gagner - 5'11 : 200lbs
Eberle - 5'11 : 180lbs
Hall - 6'1 : 200lbs
RNH - 6'1 : 180lbs
Yak- 5'11 : 186lbs

Of course I want to draft BPA, but if it's close, i'd rather go with size. Monahan and Poirer both bring good size and skill to help balance out our smaller skilled wingers. (Baertschi + Gaudreau)

I'd love to add a true #1D like Ekblad @ 6'4 : 210lbs!

Mind you, Reinhart is 6'1 - 183lbs already... He could easily fill out around 205lbs.

Anyways, I'm rambling now... Basically to sum it up, I want to draft BPA but put an emphasis on size.
 

1989

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1. Defensemen take longer to develop than forwards. See Hedman, Larsson, Hamilton, Myers, J.Johnson, Bogosion, E.Johnson, etc.

2. Trade partners can be found; trades still happen. Stewart for Johnson, Seguin for Eriksson,etc. So long as the Flames have a competent GM, this isn't an issue.

3. You're assuming they have equal ceilings. What if by draft day, the consensus is that Reinhart projects to be a franchise centre, while Ekblad top end potential appears to be that of a solid top pairing defensemen, but not a franchise one. Would you still take Ekblad over Reinhart in that case?

I would have a hard time calling Jack Johnson a top 40 defender in the league, which is what the Flames would need to find success. Please, list a trade in which a distinctive, established top 40 defender was traded since Bouwmeester? And even then the circumstances of his trade were pretty dubious, as Bouwmeester was simply an asset the Flames couldn't effectively utilize other than a trade chip due to the rebuilding movement they were about to enter. Before Bouwmeester, I think the only other trade that involved a top-40 established young defender would have been Phaneuf in the past decade. And I forgot, which one is the defender in Seguin-Eriksson trade? Forwards traded for forwards are completely different - there's many more forwards than there are defenders, and forward positions can be switched between center and wing with some success, but for the most part, a defenceman is just a defenceman for his entire career.

If I'm assuming that they players have equal ceilings (which I'm not, when I previously mentioned that they're drastically different players in different positions) then it's obviously Ekblad who should be drafted. As Reinhart is currently the better player, I still say that the Flames should draft Ekblad and trade the first overall (or else this conversation wouldn't even exist) pick and get two high-level assets in return, especially if Monahan produces anywhere north of 50 points this season.

Worst case scenario - Monahan is a second-line centre at best in his career, Ekblad developing slower than scheduled (AKA doesn't make a huge impact in the first year after being drafted) would probably mean Calgary is still a pretty good contender for 2015's top three picks and the Flames have a chance to pick up McDavid.

All hypothetical but it's just as likely as "knowing" Reinhart will become a franchise-level centre.
 

MarkGio

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Nov 6, 2010
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Oilers built their team around small skilled wingers/centres...

Gagner - 5'11 : 200lbs
Eberle - 5'11 : 180lbs
Hall - 6'1 : 200lbs
RNH - 6'1 : 180lbs
Yak- 5'11 : 186lbs

Of course I want to draft BPA, but if it's close, i'd rather go with size. Monahan and Poirer both bring good size and skill to help balance out our smaller skilled wingers. (Baertschi + Gaudreau)

I'd love to add a true #1D like Ekblad @ 6'4 : 210lbs!

Mind you, Reinhart is 6'1 - 183lbs already... He could easily fill out around 205lbs.

Anyways, I'm rambling now... Basically to sum it up, I want to draft BPA but put an emphasis on size.
Yeah size matters. That's the beauty of Ekblad. He's big AND skilled. Very rare tool box
 

MarkGio

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I would have a hard time calling Jack Johnson a top 40 defender in the league, which is what the Flames would need to find success. Please, list a trade in which a distinctive, established top 40 defender was traded since Bouwmeester? And even then the circumstances of his trade were pretty dubious, as Bouwmeester was simply an asset the Flames couldn't effectively utilize other than a trade chip due to the rebuilding movement they were about to enter. Before Bouwmeester, I think the only other trade that involved a top-40 established young defender would have been Phaneuf in the past decade. And I forgot, which one is the defender in Seguin-Eriksson trade? Forwards traded for forwards are completely different - there's many more forwards than there are defenders, and forward positions can be switched between center and wing with some success, but for the most part, a defenceman is just a defenceman for his entire career.

If I'm assuming that they players have equal ceilings (which I'm not, when I previously mentioned that they're drastically different players in different positions) then it's obviously Ekblad who should be drafted. As Reinhart is currently the better player, I still say that the Flames should draft Ekblad and trade the first overall (or else this conversation wouldn't even exist) pick and get two high-level assets in return, especially if Monahan produces anywhere north of 50 points this season.

Worst case scenario - Monahan is a second-line centre at best in his career, Ekblad developing slower than scheduled (AKA doesn't make a huge impact in the first year after being drafted) would probably mean Calgary is still a pretty good contender for 2015's top three picks and the Flames have a chance to pick up McDavid.

All hypothetical but it's just as likely as "knowing" Reinhart will become a franchise-level centre.

Its true that defenseman are not easy to come by. Really, either are number 1 centremen. Even a top line winger barely gets moved. The Flames are best to build at the draft and free agency.

I say draft Ekblad and throw a ton of money at Statsny and Franson.

That's Statsny - Monahan - Backlund down the middle, big bodies like Ekblad and Franson to supplement the defensive core, and Baertschi, Porier, JG and whoever on the wing. Rebuild done, just hope the goaltending works out
 

1989

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Yeah size matters. That's the beauty of Ekblad. He's big AND skilled. Very rare tool box
If only Kanzig could be the next Chara and Ekblad became Hal Gill 2.0 on the Flames' blueline...

homer-simpson-drooling-animated-gif_1.jpg
 
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1989

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Its true that defenseman are not easy to come by. Really, either are number 1 centremen. Even a top line winger barely gets moved. The Flames are best to build at the draft and free agency.

I say draft Ekblad and throw a ton of money at Statsny and Franson.

That's Statsny - Monahan - Backlund down the middle, big bodies like Ekblad and Franson to supplement the defensive core, and Baertschi, Porier, JG and whoever on the wing. Rebuild done, just hope the goaltending works out

They don't get moved often but much more often than top 40 defenders.

Neal got moved.
Eriksson.
Iginla.
JVR.
Lupul.
Kessel.
Nash.
Seguin.
Carter.
Richards.
Hodgson.
Turris.

All these forwards are top six players, and were at worst arguably either projected to become part of the top 60 at their respective positions or were top 40 at the time of their trades (and these are pretty recent transactions for players of this calibre.) I highlighted centremen for you.

Not one of those forwards really returned an established top 40/projected top 60 defender other than Jack Johnson at the time, and David Rundblad who hasn't even played more than 8 games in a season in the NHL yet, despite being touted as a blue-chip blueline prospect.
Furthermore, (and I created this list using Wikipedia's list of transactions over the past few years), not just accounting for top-pairing defensemen, but even less top 40 defenders have been moved from their draft teams. Suter is the only one in recent memory that could be classified as "moved from draft team" and also an "established defender" and he left in free agency.

So with this post in mind, can somebody in this thread figure out a realistic solution as to how to do what all the other NHL teams without young established top-pairing defencemen are trying to figure out if they are not able to pick up a promising defenseman at the draft? Because again, and I have said this three times in this thread now - it takes a willing partner to make a trade. As it looks, I would say most if not all GMs in the NHL understand that a star defender is in low supply and that they hold the key to a great trade assuming they want to dance at all.
 
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Zirakzigil

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If we had the fortune of landing Reinhart I would seriously look into the option of trading a Baertschi/Gaudreau level prospect for a young defensemen.

This is what I would prefer the Flames do. Its a lot harder to predict how defenseman will develop. Much better to take them lower in the first round or trade for them a couple of years later.
 

Calculon

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Jan 20, 2006
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I would have a hard time calling Jack Johnson a top 40 defender in the league, which is what the Flames would need to find success. Please, list a trade in which a distinctive, established top 40 defender was traded since Bouwmeester? And even then the circumstances of his trade were pretty dubious, as Bouwmeester was simply an asset the Flames couldn't effectively utilize other than a trade chip due to the rebuilding movement they were about to enter. Before Bouwmeester, I think the only other trade that involved a top-40 established young defender would have been Phaneuf in the past decade. And I forgot, which one is the defender in Seguin-Eriksson trade? Forwards traded for forwards are completely different - there's many more forwards than there are defenders, and forward positions can be switched between center and wing with some success, but for the most part, a defenceman is just a defenceman for his entire career.

If I'm assuming that they players have equal ceilings (which I'm not, when I previously mentioned that they're drastically different players in different positions) then it's obviously Ekblad who should be drafted. As Reinhart is currently the better player, I still say that the Flames should draft Ekblad and trade the first overall (or else this conversation wouldn't even exist) pick and get two high-level assets in return, especially if Monahan produces anywhere north of 50 points this season.

Worst case scenario - Monahan is a second-line centre at best in his career, Ekblad developing slower than scheduled (AKA doesn't make a huge impact in the first year after being drafted) would probably mean Calgary is still a pretty good contender for 2015's top three picks and the Flames have a chance to pick up McDavid.

All hypothetical but it's just as likely as "knowing" Reinhart will become a franchise-level centre.

Erik Johnson, not Jack Johnson. And that trade also involved Shattenkirk who's blossomed into a terrific defensemen.

As good as Monahan is and projects to be, teams cannot be successful building around one player. You would think people would have actually learned something from the Iginla era.

As for trades involving defensemen, who says they have to be young? The entire point of trading for a defensemen is to get one that's already mature enough to compete now, other wise you might as well just draft one and wait half a decade or so until they starting reaching they're prime. Pronger's been traded three times since the first lockout. Burns was considered a very promising defender in need of a change of scenery when he was traded to the Sharks. Ehrhoff to the Canucks, Boyle to Sharks. Ballard to the Canucks, etc.

Are there fewer trades involving top defensemen? Sure. But that doesn't mean they don't happen whatsoever, or that they can't be done in the future.

When was the last time a first overall pick was traded? And if finding trade partners is so terribly difficult, where's this magical team that's going to give the Flames a couple of significant assets for first overall going to come from?
 

MarkGio

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I like to use the Weber offer sheet as a prime example. If the Flyers were willing to give away 4 first round picks as a last resort, you know they offered A LOT in trade value to Nashville!
 

Gritty

Registered User
Nov 28, 2011
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Its true that defenseman are not easy to come by. Really, either are number 1 centremen. Even a top line winger barely gets moved. The Flames are best to build at the draft and free agency.

I say draft Ekblad and throw a ton of money at Statsny and Franson.

That's Statsny - Monahan - Backlund down the middle, big bodies like Ekblad and Franson to supplement the defensive core, and Baertschi, Porier, JG and whoever on the wing. Rebuild done, just hope the goaltending works out

If we were in the position to draft Ekblad, and come draft day he was BPA, I would be very happy with the bolded.

High end prospects like Baertschi, Monahan, Ekblad, Gaudrea, and Poirer.... Surrounded by good NHL vets like Gio, Franson, Stats, Wideman would really speed up the rebuild.

I think both players make FA this summer.

As for the goaltending, I think Ramo will pan out as a serviceable goaltender (already showing great things... needs more time), but Gillies looks like the future IMO.
 

1989

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Erik Johnson, not Jack Johnson. And that trade also involved Shattenkirk who's blossomed into a terrific defensemen.

As good as Monahan is and projects to be, teams cannot be successful building around one player. You would think people would have actually learned something from the Iginla era.


As for trades involving defensemen, who says they have to be young? The entire point of trading for a defensemen is to get one that's already mature enough to compete now, other wise you might as well just draft one and wait half a decade or so until they starting reaching they're prime. Pronger's been traded three times since the first lockout. Burns was considered a very promising defender in need of a change of scenery when he was traded to the Sharks. Ehrhoff to the Canucks, Boyle to Sharks. Ballard to the Canucks, etc.

Are there fewer trades involving top defensemen? Sure. But that doesn't mean they don't happen whatsoever, or that they can't be done in the future.

When was the last time a first overall pick was traded? And if finding trade partners is so terribly difficult, where's this magical team that's going to give the Flames a couple of significant assets for first overall going to come from?
My bad on the Johnson mixup, happens pretty often.

Who says the Flames aren't going to suck and draft top 5 in 2015 and 2016 no matter who they pick in 2014? Building around Monahan is unlikely to be the primary option anyways, and the organization's current state of asset depth is nowhere near what the Iginla era was like in its prime.

While defencemen don't typically blossom until around the age of 27 roughly, you also want them to grow with the team; providing at least a third of the current prospects pan out, this team is not likely to hit full stride until about 2017, 2018 in my opinion. By all means, it looks like the management is trying to build a team with the following attributes: High hockey IQ, responsible, and mobile, which, if the forwards are to play with that style then the defence must follow suit. How many blueliners have those qualities would you expect to be traded to the Flames at that point without creating a hole in another part of the organization when they are trying to contend?

Look, in the end, my entire point is this:

The Flames are most likely going to be a losing team for the next 2 seasons at the very least. It's understood that a lot of rebuilding teams' major downfall is the lack of a true #1 centre or a true #1 defender/goaltender.

Goaltenders, Calgary has in spades. Even if the ones in the current Flames system don't pan out, the market for them is pretty low; decent goaltenders with upside are traded often and at a reasonable price.

Forwards, the Flames also have. Kilmchuk, Poirier, Gaudreau, Jankowski, Hanowski, Baertschi, Monahan. All of these players are projected to be top six players. Whether Monahan or Jankowski will become the next Nieuwendyk or Toews, well, we'll have to see, but that's true of nearly every prospect ever anyways, including Sam Reinhart.

Defense is where the Flames are lacking.
I'm not saying they *have* to draft Ekblad.
But I am saying they *need* to draft by positional need eventually (I'm putting it this way because I acknowledge that it's not very often that a defender is BPA in top-3 picks) and the sooner they pick up a really good one that's not as much of a project as say, a Darnell Nurse, the better the Flames will be when they enter their prime as a group and the organization as a whole will be left less wanting.

I don't want the Flames to trade away ANY future first-round picks again. I want this organization to build a truly strong prospect pool. I want them to proudly build through the draft and only trade when they need to, not because "a shakeup was needed" or "we failed to draft a player of this sort and now we have to overpay for one" ever again.
 
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Zirakzigil

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Jul 5, 2010
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Draft the best player. And do what the Oilers still havent learned and trade the surplus if there is any. Defensemen are hard to predict so unless its a sure fire prospect I'd rather the Flames dont draft any in the top 10. If the Flames managed to get Reinhard they could easily trade some other young forwards to a team like the Penguins or Preds who have defensemen prospects in spades.
 

Calculon

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Jan 20, 2006
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Who says the Flames aren't going to suck and draft top 5 in 2015 and 2016 no matter who they pick in 2014? Building around Monahan is unlikely to be the primary option anyways, and the organization's current state of asset depth is nowhere near what the Iginla era was like in its prime.

While defencemen don't typically blossom until around the age of 27 roughly, you also want them to grow with the team; providing at least a third of the current prospects pan out, this team is not likely to hit full stride until about 2017, 2018 in my opinion. By all means, it looks like the management is trying to build a team with the following attributes: High hockey IQ, responsible, and mobile, which, if the forwards are to play with that style then the defence must follow suit. How many blueliners have those qualities would you expect to be traded to the Flames at that point without creating a hole in another part of the organization when they are trying to contend?

Look, in the end, my entire point is this:

The Flames are most likely going to be a losing team for the next 2 seasons at the very least. It's understood that a lot of rebuilding teams' major downfall is the lack of a true #1 centre or a true #1 defender/goaltender.

Defense is where the Flames are lacking.
I'm not saying they *have* to draft Ekblad.
But I am saying they *need* to draft by positional need eventually (I'm putting it this way because I acknowledge that it's not very often that a defender is BPA in top-3 picks) and the sooner they pick up a really good one that's not as much of a project as say, a Darnell Nurse, the better the Flames will be when they enter their prime as a group and the organization as a whole will be left less wanting.

I don't want the Flames to trade away ANY future first-round picks again. I want this organization to build a truly strong prospect pool. I want them to proudly build through the draft and only trade when they need to, not because "a shakeup was needed" or "we failed to draft a player of this sort and now we have to overpay for one" ever again.

The thing is, drafting by need is a shortsighted way of building a successful team. Yeah, the Flames are weak on quality defensemen now and in terms of prospects, but that doesn't mean they'll always be weak in that area. It's quite possible that club finds another way to add a quality defensemen; maybe they trade one of their surplus forwards away, maybe one of prospects already in house develop well beyond expectations, maybe they find a way to sign a premier talent (Suter, Hamhuis, Chara are three prominent signings for example).

Let's assume the Flames do struggle in 2015 and 2016. But maybe, in those drafts, the best players available at the spot where the Flames pick are defensemen and any available forwards are clear step below them in terms of potential. Maybe Monahan gets a concussion and never comes close to fulfilling his potential. Maybe Jankowski turns out be a complete bust. Maybe the Flames do draft Ekblad and he does turn into another Hal Gill.

That's the thing, we don't know what is going to happen in the future. Yeah, it's also possible Reinhart completely fails to live up to his potential while Ekblad turns out to be the next Pronger. But that's why you draft BPA; so you never put yourself in a position where you entirely regret not doing the logical thing. And if you're in a position where there's a surplus of talent in one position, you hope that management if competent enough to the trigger on a deal to address other needs.

If the Flames are picking first overall and Reinhart is the clear cut BPA, you take him and deal with the issues, if any, later. If it turns out Reinhart, Monahan, and Jankowksi all become first line centres, the Flames will be in a pretty good position going forward; teams are always looking for first line centres.
 

Reinhart

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I think the Flames should go BPA - regardless of position or depth in the organization. Flames were super deep in the RW slot just 2 years ago - now they are without a doubt the weakest organizationally there.

I hope Reinhart lands with us. The guy seems so much like Monahan in a number of ways. Another extremely high hockey-IQ center that plays a 200ft game with a non-stop motor.

Ekblad sure sounds like a great prospect - but defencemen are so difficult to figure out though. Just as many busts as there are great players in the first 5 picks it seems - proportionately higher than forwards (ok, maybe not 'busts', but more disappointments there).

Really comes down to draft position for me. #1 overall (so far) is Reinhart (just like my name). A few picks later and Ekblad is still around, and the Flames feel he is the BPA, then it is him.

If Reinhart (or another forward) is selected in the first, I hope that the next two picks are defencemen (and that they are once again BPA). NHL is littered with high-end defencemen selected in the 2nd round and lower - much greater numbers it seems in terms of 'stars' or 'franchise types' than forwards. Lidstrom, Chara, Weber, etc. Our very own captain wasn't even drafted.

Very difficult it seems to draft 1st-line forward impact talent in the 2nd round and lower, and 1st line centers are rarely traded (and come with the heaviest price-tags it seems).
 

YMCMBYOLO

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The thing is, drafting by need is a shortsighted way of building a successful team. Yeah, the Flames are weak on quality defensemen now and in terms of prospects, but that doesn't mean they'll always be weak in that area. It's quite possible that club finds another way to add a quality defensemen; maybe they trade one of their surplus forwards away, maybe one of prospects already in house develop well beyond expectations, maybe they find a way to sign a premier talent (Suter, Hamhuis, Chara are three prominent signings for example).

Let's assume the Flames do struggle in 2015 and 2016. But maybe, in those drafts, the best players available at the spot where the Flames pick are defensemen and any available forwards are clear step below them in terms of potential. Maybe Monahan gets a concussion and never comes close to fulfilling his potential. Maybe Jankowski turns out be a complete bust. Maybe the Flames do draft Ekblad and he does turn into another Hal Gill.

That's the thing, we don't know what is going to happen in the future. Yeah, it's also possible Reinhart completely fails to live up to his potential while Ekblad turns out to be the next Pronger. But that's why you draft BPA; so you never put yourself in a position where you entirely regret not doing the logical thing. And if you're in a position where there's a surplus of talent in one position, you hope that management if competent enough to the trigger on a deal to address other needs.

If the Flames are picking first overall and Reinhart is the clear cut BPA, you take him and deal with the issues, if any, later. If it turns out Reinhart, Monahan, and Jankowksi all become first line centres, the Flames will be in a pretty good position going forward; teams are always looking for first line centres.


Not only that, but if you ever have a surplus of players, you can always trade them for a need later on.
 

Demetric

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I dont pretend to know anything, but at this point in time if I had number one pick I think I would go with Ekbald, he looks like he could be playing in the NHL this year, but to be fair I have not seen much of him or Reinhart. and that is just my opinion.

or we draft like 4th and Ekbauld falls to us like Jones did for Nashville ....
 

Trae

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I take Reinhart because I think he's the best player, but also because he can play RW if needed, our weakest prospect position considering all we have there with decent upside is Poirier who is left handed.
 

herashak

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Mar 24, 2013
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True reinhart could be moved to the wing if jank turns into a good top 6 C. on another note barzal looks amazing next year. hed be a first overall talent if not for mcdavid taking all the hype. barzal could be a wing or C aswell.
 
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tfong

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I think we finish outside of a lottery pick this year anyways.

Hard to pass up over Eckblad, you're talking about a dman granted special status heh.

If we got the #1, I think we move down to take Eckblad and gain another pick.
 

tfong

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Making the playoffs is quite optimistic, especially for you... ;)

I know eh? Here you guys are, talking about lottery picks and I'm going against the grain....again :D

I think we actually finish 9-11th right now actually. To me those teams have very low chance of winning the lottery pick as well anyways.
 

Johnny Hoxville

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I'd love to have either Reinhart or Ekblad really. I'm gonna wait to state my opinion until the year is over, we know where we are drafting and we see how our own guys already in our system have developed.

I'm usually on the side of BPA, but NFL teams always draft by team need and don't have a problem with it, usually. Our biggest hole is on D, specifically a potential #1 dman, I wouldn't be sad at all if we targeted one this draft. But I wanna know where we are drafting and who's available first. I don't think we'll win the lotto either.
 

MarkGio

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I see Ekblad drafted in a position similar to Seth Jones, which is where the Flames are (hopefully). Ever since we lost Erixon, this organization never replaced our prospect pool of a high end defensive prospect. Either a top defensive pick or a centermen. Even a top right handed winger would help
 
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