C Nolan Patrick (2017, 2nd, PHI) III

[Striiker]

I don't know, never seen so much defense over someone producing so little.

I honestly thought it funny since people were updating every game he had a point in, but silence for now the past 10 games...must be another "bad stretch" I guess.

I just wanted to make sure everyone was still okay, and something didn't happen in Philly that wiped away most of our HF posters on here

Also, people need to lighten up - its all in good fun - if you want to post an update every time he gets a point, expect a little fun back when he goes cold for 10 game stretches.

If anything wipes out this fanbase it'll be heart attacks due to anger at the coach.

Complaining about him is how 99% of our energy is used these days.

 

[AmericanDream]

If anything wipes out this fanbase it'll be heart attacks due to anger at the coach.

Complaining about him is how 99% of our energy is used these days.

I see the issues that some fans have with him, but why is he garnering so much talk around the league for coach of the year?? What on Earth are others not seeing that the fanbase is? It seems his handling of the youth is an issue with you guys, which is odd as his entire experience is coaching youth....

 

[Striiker]

I see the issues that some fans have with him, but why is he garnering so much talk around the league for coach of the year?? What on Earth are others not seeing that the fanbase is? It seems his handling of the youth is an issue with you guys, which is odd as his entire experience is coaching youth....

Sorry for the following essay... but you did ask..

Simply put, the team is winning in spite of the coach. But outsiders don't see that... they just see a team that is now in a playoff position after a crazy hot stretch of play and after missing the playoffs last year, and assume that the coach played a part in that.

He didn't.

In reality, we just have some awesome players who are having crazy years.

Giroux is tied with his career best in points (93 points)
Couturier has nearly doubled his previous career best (previously 39 points, currently has 71 points) while being elite defensively
Voracek is 1 point away from tying his career best (81 points)
Gostisbehere hit a career high with 60 points, which is good for 4th in all defensemen scoring, while also being really great defensively
Provorov's great at contributing offensively at 5v5 (pretty bad on the PP, to be honest) and is 10th in defensemen even strength scoring (32 points) and 2nd in all defensemen goals (15)
Konecny, since the idiot coach stopped f***ing him over by playing him with 4th liners and like 10 minutes per night, has caught fire (19 goals and 32 points in his last 39 games)
Sanheim is finally back in the lineup but currently stuck with Andrew f***ing MacDonald and being horribly misused by the coach, but apparently his advanced stats are incredible (I'm personally not interested in those stats, so you'd have to ask someone else) and the eye test is backing that up. The scoring isn't there yet, like Patrick, but he's been fantastic in his ridiculously little playing time.
And then Patrick... not reflected on the scoreboard, but truly playing incredibly well for the last few months and is making me much more excited than I previously was about him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was already our best scoring C next year.

So 6 of our top 7 scorers are having career years... and Patrick and Sanheim are looking awesome, despite a lack of points.

THAT is why the team is where they are.

Meanwhile, we have a coach who severely under-uses most young players (Konecny, Patrick, Sanheim, etc) and severely over-uses atrocious vets (Lehtera, Filppula, Manning, MacDonald, etc).

He also likes to bench the guys who helped get him the lead (Konecny, Sanheim, Gostisbehere, etc) at the ends of games and go full on turtle mode... double shifting guys like MacDonald because he's "safe" and "reliable"... which has resulted in this team going to OT 24 times in 78 games. It keeps biting us in the ass and he keeps on doing it.


There's a million other things he's doing horribly wrong, but this post is already long enough and if anyone cares they can check out the "Fire Hakstol" thread on the Flyers board.

 

[Rich Nixon]

And yeah, just to build on everything @Striiker said, Hakstol is a bad in-game manager. In the first period of the Penguins game Sunday he ended up with MacDonald/Sanheim out against Crosby 3 shifts in a row. This wasn't off faceoffs, this was just on-the-fly line changes, I think twice MacDonald was out first, but Hakstol just let it ride when he had the opportunity to throw maybe Provorov on. You have to pay attention to what the other team is doing. Sullivan isn't going to hold Crosby off the ice until a terrible defenseman comes on, he's going to get his regular shift eventually, so maybe adjust to that.

And there's some no-brainer stuff. The 3rd line will wear out the opposition and get an icing (it's all they're good for). Half the time, Hak will leave them on the ice rather than taking advantage of tired opposition. The other half, he'll roll out the first line and pair it with the Gudas/Manning defensive duo. So, great, Giroux or Couturier win the faceoff back to some moron plug who will proceed to pound it into a shin pad for the clear.

It's just not good coaching. He's not reactive or opportunistic at all. It's his system all the way: Everyone gets a regular shift unless they're a young player and it's late in a close game, in which they're not allowed to play. And his system is fine if you want to hold on for dear life with a 2-1 lead like they did last night. But you realize you have Giroux melting the league, Voracek doing his thing, Couturier and Konecny emerging as legit scoring threats, Patrick on his way up, Simmonds slumping but still a good scorer, one of the best offensive defenseman of his generation in Gostisbehere, and another excellent backend scoring threat in Provorov...you wonder why the hell they're essentially 39-39 and winning games 2-1.

 

[AmericanDream]

Sorry for the following essay... but you did ask..

Simply put, the team is winning in spite of the coach. But outsiders don't see that... they just see a team that is now in a playoff position after a crazy hot stretch of play and after missing the playoffs last year, and assume that the coach played a part in that.

He didn't.

In reality, we just have some awesome players who are having crazy years.

Giroux is tied with his career best in points (93 points)
Couturier has nearly doubled his previous career best (previously 39 points, currently has 71 points) while being elite defensively
Voracek is 1 point away from tying his career best (81 points)
Gostisbehere hit a career high with 60 points, which is good for 4th in all defensemen scoring, while also being really great defensively
Provorov's great at contributing offensively at 5v5 (pretty bad on the PP, to be honest) and is 10th in defensemen even strength scoring (32 points) and 2nd in all defensemen goals (15)
Konecny, since the idiot coach stopped ****ing him over by playing him with 4th liners and like 10 minutes per night, has caught fire (19 goals and 32 points in his last 39 games)
Sanheim is finally back in the lineup but currently stuck with Andrew ****ing MacDonald and being horribly misused by the coach, but apparently his advanced stats are incredible (I'm personally not interested in those stats, so you'd have to ask someone else) and the eye test is backing that up. The scoring isn't there yet, like Patrick, but he's been fantastic in his ridiculously little playing time.
And then Patrick... not reflected on the scoreboard, but truly playing incredibly well for the last few months and is making me much more excited than I previously was about him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was already our best scoring C next year.

So 6 of our top 7 scorers are having career years... and Patrick and Sanheim are looking awesome, despite a lack of points.

THAT is why the team is where they are.

Meanwhile, we have a coach who severely under-uses most young players (Konecny, Patrick, Sanheim, etc) and severely over-uses atrocious vets (Lehtera, Filppula, Manning, MacDonald, etc).

He also likes to bench the guys who helped get him the lead (Konecny, Sanheim, Gostisbehere, etc) at the ends of games and go full on turtle mode... double shifting guys like MacDonald because he's "safe" and "reliable"... which has resulted in this team going to OT 24 times in 78 games. It keeps biting us in the ass and he keeps on doing it.


There's a million other things he's doing horribly wrong, but this post is already long enough and if anyone cares they can check out the "Fire Hakstol" thread on the Flyers board.

awesome post, and many of us Hawks fans understand your frustrations.

we have a kid named Alex DeBrincat, who for much of the year has played in our bottom 6 (as well as with Toews, but NEVER with Kaner) with typically 14 minutes or less of ice-time yet tied for our team lead in goals!! lol!

he has had 38 games of power play time under 1:50 (just under 2 minutes) and 20 games under 1 minute of power play ice time...yet again he has 26 goals not because of Coach Q, but in-spite of him!!

we have the same situation as well, where some outsiders and even insiders are just blind/oblivious to the issues Q has as his management of our youthful players is just head bashing off keyboard worthy!

I have no justification why Alex DeBrincat fights for 14:30 of ice time per game, and 2:00 of pp time, yet anyone including Stevie Wonder can see how much more time he deserves out there...like Barzal ice-time..

with Hakstol, that is just crazy since he built his career on coaching kids, and Q has typically been handed experienced teams to run - so I am surprised to see all this with him.

I have had my issues with Sanheim in my other thread, as we have advanced stat guys as well that some of us just don't agree with, but the eye test does not lie - and he has looked better the last 2 weeks for me, but I just am not sold on his upside yet...but that is already being debated in another thread lol...

As for Patrick, I still see a streaky player, which a lot of rookies/younger players are...if you guys think he will balance it out more, get more ice time/better luck then he should be a 50-60 point player on that team with the supporting cast he has...I just enjoy busting balls as some people take things way too personally on here..for me I always have had some issues with Patrick and his upside, and for him to still be 22nd overall in rookie scoring is not changing much of my earlier opinion of him - but maybe a full healthy year next year and better coaching can help him out.

And sorry for my essay as well, but Ghost and Provorov are just insanely good - to have both of them anchoring your blue line for years must be a damn good feeling!! It almost makes a guy like Sanheim expendable if the return is strong enough for possibly a goalie...just sayin'!

Good stuff!

 

[Striiker]

awesome post, and many of us Hawks fans understand your frustrations.

we have a kid named Alex DeBrincat, who for much of the year has played in our bottom 6 (as well as with Toews, but NEVER with Kaner) with typically 14 minutes or less of ice-time yet tied for our team lead in goals!! lol!

he has had 38 games of power play time under 1:50 (just under 2 minutes) and 20 games under 1 minute of power play ice time...yet again he has 26 goals not because of Coach Q, but in-spite of him!!

we have the same situation as well, where some outsiders and even insiders are just blind/oblivious to the issues Q has as his management of our youthful players is just head bashing off keyboard worthy!

I have no justification why Alex DeBrincat fights for 14:30 of ice time per game, and 2:00 of pp time, yet anyone including Stevie Wonder can see how much more time he deserves out there...like Barzal ice-time..

See... this is exactly what I've been saying to Flyers fans on our board. A bunch of them have floated the idea of hiring Quenneville (if both he and Hakstol got fired) and I've been telling them that I've seen the same complaints about him from Chicago fans as I see about Hakstol.

Personally, I have an incredibly low opinion of like 95% of coaches, I think most do the same idiotic and inexcusable shit. Hakstol is certainly horrible and I want him gone... but the idea that there's all these great coaches available and the problem ends with firing Hakstols is just wrong. I fully expect our next coach to infuriate us in the same way. The problem is with old fashioned hockey culture that values the wrong things. Toughness and veteran status hold way too much weight to far too many coaches.

with Hakstol, that is just crazy since he built his career on coaching kids, and Q has typically been handed experienced teams to run - so I am surprised to see all this with him.

I have had my issues with Sanheim in my other thread, as we have advanced stat guys as well that some of us just don't agree with, but the eye test does not lie - and he has looked better the last 2 weeks for me, but I just am not sold on his upside yet...but that is already being debated in another thread lol...

As for Patrick, I still see a streaky player, which a lot of rookies/younger players are...if you guys think he will balance it out more, get more ice time/better luck then he should be a 50-60 point player on that team with the supporting cast he has...I just enjoy busting balls as some people take things way too personally on here..for me I always have had some issues with Patrick and his upside, and for him to still be 22nd overall in rookie scoring is not changing much of my earlier opinion of him - but maybe a full healthy year next year and better coaching can help him out.

And sorry for my essay as well, but Ghost and Provorov are just insanely good - to have both of them anchoring your blue line for years must be a damn good feeling!! It almost makes a guy like Sanheim expendable if the return is strong enough for possibly a goalie...just sayin'!

Good stuff!

Personally, I can easily see higher scoring than 50-60 points out of Patrick. Couturier hit 70 this year and I have no doubt Patrick is more offensively gifted than Couts. Better skating, better shot, better passing, better vision.... really the only thing Couturier has over him is probably defensive play. Will he definitely be a 70+ point scorer? No, of course not, nothing is for sure. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me at all, based on everything I've seen from him this year. I know a lot of outsiders are lukewarm on him right now, but that's fine by me. I'm not worried about him at all and I'm extremely excited for next year already. Hopefully he proves me right.

As for Sanheim, I live like 10 miles from the Flyers AHL team, so I've seen a lot of Sanheim and I'm pretty convinced in his upside at this point. He shows a lot of the things that I saw in Ghost before people were sold on him, as far as the offensive creativity and control of the game go. He's just notoriously slow to score in new leagues, so this seasons lack of points was certainly no surprise.

No chance we trade him for a goalie, he's too valuable for that and we also have Carter Hart, who is looking insanely good. Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers are going to be the core of our defense sooner than later... I'd bet my house on it.

And no issue with the ball busting, especially when its from a person who is receptive and I can have a real conversation with. It's all in good fun and I do the same all the time.

 

[Tripod]

See... this is exactly what I've been saying to Flyers fans on our board. A bunch of them have floated the idea of hiring Quenneville (if both he and Hakstol got fired) and I've been telling them that I've seen the same complaints about him from Chicago fans as I see about Hakstol.

Personally, I have an incredibly low opinion of like 95% of coaches, I think most do the same idiotic and inexcusable ****. Hakstol is certainly horrible and I want him gone... but the idea that there's all these great coaches available and the problem ends with firing Hakstols is just wrong. I fully expect our next coach to infuriate us in the same way. The problem is with old fashioned hockey culture that values the wrong things. Toughness and veteran status hold way too much weight to far too many coaches.



Personally, I can easily see higher scoring than 50-60 points out of Patrick. Couturier hit 70 this year and I have no doubt Patrick is more offensively gifted than Couts. Better skating, better shot, better passing, better vision.... really the only thing Couturier has over him is probably defensive play. Will he definitely be a 70+ point scorer? No, of course not, nothing is for sure. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me at all, based on everything I've seen from him this year. I know a lot of outsiders are lukewarm on him right now, but that's fine by me. I'm not worried about him at all and I'm extremely excited for next year already. Hopefully he proves me right.

As for Sanheim, I live like 10 miles from the Flyers AHL team, so I've seen a lot of Sanheim and I'm pretty convinced in his upside at this point. He shows a lot of the things that I saw in Ghost before people were sold on him, as far as the offensive creativity and control of the game go. He's just notoriously slow to score in new leagues, so this seasons lack of points was certainly no surprise.

No chance we trade him for a goalie, he's too valuable for that and we also have Carter Hart, who is looking insanely good. Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, and Myers are going to be the core of our defense sooner than later... I'd bet my house on it.

And no issue with the ball busting, especially when its from a person who is receptive and I can have a real conversation with. It's all in good fun and I do the same all the time.

Yeah, but you are ugly.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, but you are ugly.

Oh...


I see...

 

[Tripod]

Oh...


I see...

Lol...I just thought I would randomly throw out that comment after ready your last line since it reminded me about you and Marchand!

Please mods, don't ban me for flaming...it's an ongoing joke between us!

 

[Striiker]

Lol...I just thought I would randomly throw out that comment after ready your last line since it reminded me about you and Marchand!

Please mods, don't ban me for flaming...it's an ongoing joke between us!

I have no idea what he means about an ongoing joke... I've never met this person before in my life.

 

[Tripod]

I have no idea what he means about an ongoing joke... I've never met this person before in my life.

You Frigger. No joke, I was banned from a thread fruit flamming and had no idea what I said wrong. Maybe it was one of these types of jokes
I forgot about.

Mind you...you are right, we have never met. It would be weird a 45 year old meeting with a 12 year old.

 

[Striiker]

You Frigger. No joke, I was banned from a thread fruit flamming and had no idea what I said wrong. Maybe it was one of these types of jokes
I forgot about.

Mind you...you are right, we have never met. It would be weird a 45 year old meeting with a 12 year old.

About time you got punished for your hurtful words.

Keep it up and I'll tell my mom on you.

 

[pit]

It seems his handling of the youth is an issue with you guys, which is odd as his entire experience is coaching youth....

I actually wonder about college hockey actually meaning good with youth. Is there not a tendency to provide favouritism based on year and seniority in some college/university settings? Could that be translating into playing veterans more despite having deficiencies compared to younger players?

 

[AmericanDream]

I actually wonder about college hockey actually meaning good with youth. Is there not a tendency to provide favouritism based on year and seniority in some college/university settings? Could that be translating into playing veterans more despite having deficiencies compared to younger players?

there most certainly is, as a lot of times you have to earn it so you do make a real good point...just odd though as those are "kids" and these are all considered pros....the league is getting younger and with a number of kids on the roster you would think he knows how to motivate and encourage them...not sit them and possibly wreck them...

 

[pit]

the league is getting younger and with a number of kids on the roster you would think he knows how to motivate and encourage them...not sit them and possibly wreck them...

One would hope, but that doesn't seem to be the case sadly.

 

[Stizzle]

 

[Striiker]

And people worried about his skating...

 

[canuck2010]

awesome post, and many of us Hawks fans understand your frustrations.

As for Patrick, I still see a streaky player, which a lot of rookies/younger players are...if you guys think he will balance it out more, get more ice time/better luck then he should be a 50-60 point player on that team with the supporting cast he has...I just enjoy busting balls as some people take things way too personally on here..for me I always have had some issues with Patrick and his upside, and for him to still be 22nd overall in rookie scoring is not changing much of my earlier opinion of him - but maybe a full healthy year next year and better coaching can help him out.


He may be number 22 in rookie scoring but for his draft year, he is actually number 2. Rember he is 19 and has missed a fair amount of playing time over the last two years.

Guys in front of him in rookie scoring are mostly older or have more experience in the NHL or minors.

Wait until he is bigger, stronger and meaner. I think he will be a dominant player in this league.

 

[Curufinwe]

Two goals on the top PP unit after he replaced Simmonds late in Tuesday's game. I can't find the post, but before the season started I said I'd be happy with 75 GP and 35 points for Patrick. With two games left he's at 71 GP and 29 points.

 

[MakoSlade]

Two goals on the top PP unit after he replaced Simmonds late in Tuesday's game.

I can't find the post, but before the season started I said I'd be happy with 75 GP and 35 points for Patrick. With two games left he's at 71 GP and 29 points.

Making it to 71 games must be a huge relief. Showed he can last in this league, which was the number one concern.

 

[mja]

Congrats to Nolan Patrick for his 30th NHL point tonight, an assist on Voracek's GWG.

He scored 23 of those points in 2018, including 10 G & 11 A in his last 32 games. He's had a solid rookie campaign and has firmly established himself as the Flyers second line center.

 

[MikeSteaks]

Great player!

 

[lancer247]

Congrats to Nolan Patrick for his 30th NHL point tonight, an assist on Voracek's GWG.

He scored 23 of those points in 2018, including 10 G & 11 A in his last 32 games. He's had a solid rookie campaign and has firmly established himself as the Flyers second line center.

It wasn’t Jeff Carters 2nd season but early in his career I remember him coming to camp after adding 10 lbs or more of muscle in the offseason. You could see the difference along the boards and going to the net. Hopefully, Patrick has a surgery free offseason for a change and can do something special similar.

Really nice 2nd half.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Pretty ridiculous turn around.

Has been playing at a ~25 goal, ~56 point pace since 1/31.

His CF% now up to ~49% after being at ~42% at Christmas.

A full healthy offseason and he will get even better.

 

[mja]

Oh, and he had a crazy pass tonight that was highlight reel worthy. A behind the back through his legs no look pass from the sidewall right onto Travis Sanheim's stick.