C John Tavares (2009, 1st overall, NYI) III & IV

[vippe]

Well done by Tavares, this will indeed be a very interesting draftyear

 

[Garo]

Not a prima donna who refuses to play for his drafted team.

Like John Elway?

 

[Big Phil]

According to last night's 2g-2a game he now has 4 points in one game. That puts him on pace over a full season with 68 games to get 272 points just 10 shy of Mario's record...................

Okay I kid around. But seriously this is his year. Even taking away his time in the WJC I see a very real chance that he hits the levels of Crosby in his draft year (168 points). When the draft comes around no GM would pass up on him to take Hedman. Nothing against Hedman but I would lose sleep at night not taking Tavares.

The NHL has historically shunned a player who has dominated for a while in replace of a fresher look from being bored from the other player. It happened in 1954 when Al Rollins won the Hart Trophy instead of Howe three peating it, it happened in 1984 when Messier won the Smythe Trophy over Gretzky and it happened in the '98 and '01 drafts when Lecavalier and Spezza were locks to be #1 only to get threatened by a new fresh player challenging him. Lecavalier went #1 and Legwand went #2. That turned out to be right. Kovalchuk went #1 and Spezza went #2. That IMO was wrong. Nothing against the fresher players but when writers and scouts have been talking about Tavares for 4 years they get sick of him and get bored. But 9/10 the other player they profile is never as good as the other one, it's just hype. Expect Tavares to be #1. And expect the same for Taylor Hall in 2010

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

According to last night's 2g-2a game he now has 4 points in one game. That puts him on pace over a full season with 68 games to get 272 points just 10 shy of Mario's record...................

Okay I kid around. But seriously this is his year. Even taking away his time in the WJC I see a very real chance that he hits the levels of Crosby in his draft year (168 points). When the draft comes around no GM would pass up on him to take Hedman. Nothing against Hedman but I would lose sleep at night not taking Tavares.

The NHL has historically shunned a player who has dominated for a while in replace of a fresher look from being bored from the other player. It happened in 1954 when Al Rollins won the Hart Trophy instead of Howe three peating it, it happened in 1984 when Messier won the Smythe Trophy over Gretzky and it happened in the '98 and '01 drafts when Lecavalier and Spezza were locks to be #1 only to get threatened by a new fresh player challenging him. Lecavalier went #1 and Legwand went #2. That turned out to be right. Kovalchuk went #1 and Spezza went #2. That IMO was wrong. Nothing against the fresher players but when writers and scouts have been talking about Tavares for 4 years they get sick of him and get bored. But 9/10 the other player they profile is never as good as the other one, it's just hype. Expect Tavares to be #1. And expect the same for Taylor Hall in 2010

Agreed on Tavares. He's too creative and devastating an offensive player to be passed up. Last year with the Summit Series, OHL season, and WJCs it just ended up being too much. He had a long summer to regain focus (after what would've been a remarkable year for any other player), and I have no doubt that he'll have re-solidified his draft status by next June.

Hedman was the new toy for awhile, and his gargantuan frame has every prospect watcher drooling, but the cream will rise to the top.

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

What does Tavares have to do to cement himself as the #1 pick?

Pray.

Pray that Victor Hedman drops like a rock.

 

[ugotmybeef*]

take out his competition.

 

[speeds]

According to last night's 2g-2a game he now has 4 points in one game. That puts him on pace over a full season with 68 games to get 272 points just 10 shy of Mario's record...................

Okay I kid around. But seriously this is his year. Even taking away his time in the WJC I see a very real chance that he hits the levels of Crosby in his draft year (168 points).

Maybe he'll skip the world juniors like Mario did to set an OHL scoring record

 

[SChan*]

typical canadians feeling offended that someone else might go as nr1

 

[Stamvarhall*]

typical canadians feeling offended that someone else might go as nr1

Easy buddy, dont over step your boundaries too much.

I'd take Tavares 98 times out of 100.

Tavares is playing with **** for team mates this season, and if/when he scores 150+ points this season, that alone will be more impressive than Hedmans 3 goal 10 assist season in the SEL.

I'm not insecure anyways, Hedman has his flaws, and believe me this guy has only been talked about for awhile, where as Tavares has been talked about for the last 4 years and counting, of course they're going to start calling him out about any little thing he does on or off the ice.


His Goal scoring was deadly in his first 2 seasons, scoring a whopping 115 goals in 132 games, great, but than his Playmaking gets questioned, so what does he do? Oh he just goes on to lower his goal totals abit and have not one of...BUT! THEE HIGHEST ASSIST PER GAME AVERAGE IN THE CHL LAST SEASON..


So now the scouts are questioning his skating ability and whether it can be raised to the ranks of the NHL level, well.... he's anwering that right now, his skating is vastly improved from his 72 goal season two seasons ago.


If anything it sounds like your a bit insecure, because you know Tavares is slowly regaining his top spot.( LIKE HE EVER REALLY LOST IT THOUGH)


I'll quote this comment 10 months from now.


P.S. I like your Username, thanks for the compliment to me and my fellow countrymen, its been a good 4 years.

 

[Garl]

That's exactly the example of arrogant way of thinking. Like Good old canadian boy can only lose his top spot to himself.

We shall see how the season will go, but to say that if Good canadian boy will dominate OHL then bad swedish boy has no chanse is total bs.

 

[therealdeal]

Maybe he'll skip the world juniors like Mario did to set an OHL scoring record

He could, I would say its better for him to go and dominate the Worlds though, not many underages get the opportunity to do that, and he will be Canada's go to guy this year.

 

[SChan*]

Easy buddy, dont over step your boundaries too much.

I'd take Tavares 98 times out of 100.

Tavares is playing with **** for team mates this season, and if/when he scores 150+ points this season, that alone will be more impressive than Hedmans 3 goal 10 assist season in the SEL.

I'm not insecure anyways, Hedman has his flaws, and believe me this guy has only been talked about for awhile, where as Tavares has been talked about for the last 4 years and counting, of course they're going to start calling him out about any little thing he does on or off the ice.


His Goal scoring was deadly in his first 2 seasons, scoring a whopping 115 goals in 132 games, great, but than his Playmaking gets questioned, so what does he do? Oh he just goes on to lower his goal totals abit and have not one of...BUT! THEE HIGHEST ASSIST PER GAME AVERAGE IN THE CHL LAST SEASON..


So now the scouts are questioning his skating ability and whether it can be raised to the ranks of the NHL level, well.... he's anwering that right now, his skating is vastly improved from his 72 goal season two seasons ago.


If anything it sounds like your a bit insecure, because you know Tavares is slowly regaining his top spot.( LIKE HE EVER REALLY LOST IT THOUGH)


I'll quote this comment 10 months from now.


P.S. I like your Username, thanks for the compliment to me and my fellow countrymen, its been a good 4 years.

thanks for proving my point by being an arrogant canadian.

 

[deanosaur]

thanks for proving my point by being an arrogant canadian.

Great. Bring us all "Canadians" down because he's being a dick about it.

In all seriousness... This Hedman vs Tavares **** is really getting annoying.

 

[Sanderson]

Easy buddy, dont over step your boundaries too much.

I'd take Tavares 98 times out of 100.

Tavares is playing with **** for team mates this season, and if/when he scores 150+ points this season, that alone will be more impressive than Hedmans 3 goal 10 assist season in the SEL.

I'm not insecure anyways, Hedman has his flaws, and believe me this guy has only been talked about for awhile, where as Tavares has been talked about for the last 4 years and counting, of course they're going to start calling him out about any little thing he does on or off the ice.

How woudl you know that it is more impressive?
Scoring against junior-age players has been done by many many players before. Trying to compare it to someone of junior-age who plays in a mens-league is just ridiculous, it's just not possible.

As for being talked about, duh, how do you know that Hedman is only talked about for a very short time, do you live in Sweden?
It's just wrong to compare the interest of the Canadian media in a Canadian player to the interest of the Canadian media in a Swedish player. Of course the Swede will be found later and be less talked about, he's from Sweden, how would the Canadian media know anything about him?

Even comparing the interest of the Canadian respectively Swedish press is wrong. The Canadian hockey press is much larger than the Swedish one. Not to mention that with the Canadian hockey press being that large, I seriously doubt that many Canadians follow the Swedish hockey press.


I don't agree with Kovalchuk drafted before Spezza being wrong either. Both are franchise-forwards and have put up big numbers. Spezza had a bit more help than Kovalchuk, but both don't really need great players to succeed. Until Spezza clearly outplays Kovalchuk, which he hasn't done so far, there is nothing to suggest that Spezza should have been picked before Kovalchuk.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The only way Tavares gets the number one spot is if he absolutely schools Hedman at the WJC. People may not like it, but I think that's where the major performances for this year's number one overall spot are going to be made or broken. If Tavares takes Hedman behind the woodshed, he goes first overall, no questions. However, if Hedman delivers a Chris Pronger-like performance at the WJC and hammers Tavares, it's game over for Tavares and the number one spot.

And for the person who said a franchise/elite forward is a lock pick over a franchise/elite defenseman, I beg to differ. Elite/franchise defenseman will always be a priority over a franchise/elite forward. It's much, much tougher to find that franchise/elite defenseman and build from the back out. It's much easier though to find a franchise/elite forward.

 

[AlMo]

Agreed. At no point in his NHL career was Lindros anywhere near 2 points per game.

No he didn't but what he had was the third highest career PPG average before the injuries. Only Gretz and Mario were better. Anyone who doesn't think Lindros was a rare talent is extremely mistaken. Lindros has the tools to be one of the most dominating forces to ever strap on a pair of skates. This was a guy that was 6'4, 230-240 lbs that can skate well, hit like a truck, and pot 40+ goals a season and the potential to put up 100+ points a season. Players like that don't come around to often There was point between 94 and 97 that I would consider Eric the best player in the world. Eric's downfall was his junior days. He was too good of player when playing in the OHL. He would just run over people due to his size and he tried the same tactics in the NHL. Only difference was guys like Stevens and Kasparitus didn't exist in the "O".

 

[drew1234]

The only way Tavares gets the number one spot is if he absolutely schools Hedman at the WJC. People may not like it, but I think that's where the major performances for this year's number one overall spot are going to be made or broken. If Tavares takes Hedman behind the woodshed, he goes first overall, no questions. However, if Hedman delivers a Chris Pronger-like performance at the WJC and hammers Tavares, it's game over for Tavares and the number one spot.

And for the person who said a franchise/elite forward is a lock pick over a franchise/elite defenseman, I beg to differ. Elite/franchise defenseman will always be a priority over a franchise/elite forward. It's much, much tougher to find that franchise/elite defenseman and build from the back out. It's much easier though to find a franchise/elite forward.

You are totally wrong. Hockey is a business. When there is a tie and players are soo close to eachother you will most likely take what you need. But the emphesis comes to forwards. Forwards bring immediate help and fans in the stands.

Erik Johnsons impact vs Ovechkins rookie year vs Malkins vs Crosby's.

Where do you rank Johnson on this list?

Exactly at the bottom. Crosby = $$$$ over Johnson. Erik Johnson will be a great defensemen but hes not as exciting as a Crosby, Ovechkin etc. Even Patrick Kane was more recognized this past year over him. The media coverage was huge for Kane and almost non existant for Johnson. Although thats mainly because it takes a while for a defensemen to mature to actually have huge impact in the nhl. Look at Bouwmeester. Nash was selected over him. Ovechkin/Malkin were taken over Barker. When Barker was drafted he was also named a "franchise dman".

If toronto has the #1 pick they will take Tavares. Oakville native will give this city a huge marketing campaign. How many Tavares jerseys will be sold in Toronto of Hedman? Welcome to Business 101. Hockey is a business.

 

[Garl]

You are totally wrong. Hockey is a business. When there is a tie and players are soo close to eachother you will most likely take what you need. But the emphesis comes to forwards. Forwards bring immediate help and fans in the stands.

Erik Johnsons impact vs Ovechkins rookie year vs Malkins vs Crosby's.

Where do you rank Johnson on this list?

Exactly at the bottom. Crosby = $$$$ over Johnson. Erik Johnson will be a great defensemen but hes not as exciting as a Crosby, Ovechkin etc. Even Patrick Kane was more recognized this past year over him. The media coverage was huge for Kane and almost non existant for Johnson. Although thats mainly because it takes a while for a defensemen to mature to actually have huge impact in the nhl. Look at Bouwmeester. Nash was selected over him. Ovechkin/Malkin were taken over Barker. When Barker was drafted he was also named a "franchise dman".

If toronto has the #1 pick they will take Tavares. Oakville native will give this city a huge marketing campaign. How many Tavares jerseys will be sold in Toronto of Hedman? Welcome to Business 101. Hockey is a business.

Barker wasn't considered a franchise defenseman.

Comparin E.Johnson to Crosby is stupid.

Better remember Daigle over Pronger. I will agree that if forward and defenseman are equal forward has better chanses, but it's an utopia, they can't be equal. Somebody will be considered BPA.

 

[drew1234]

Barker wasn't considered a franchise defenseman.

Comparin E.Johnson to Crosby is stupid.

Better remember Daigle over Pronger. I will agree that if forward and defenseman are equal forward has better chanses, but it's an utopia, they can't be equal. Somebody will be considered BPA.

Erik Johnson was also noted as a Franchise dman. And Crosby is a Franchise forward.

Hedman is projected as a franchise dman and Tavares a franchise forward. same comparison....

And yes Barker was considered a franchise dman. Too bad I can find the draft video where the commenters say it and his scouting report when drafted. Ovechkin and Malkin where the two elite players in the draft then came the next pick which was the top canadian defensemen. Which is usally always noted especially in the top 5 of every draft a franchise dman.

Yes someone will be considered bpa but when it comes to being #1 which is what the thread is about Tavares has the upper hand because he is a forward. Just has to have another stellar year. So far 1 gp 2g 2a for 4 points is a good start for Tavares.

Both are awesome players to draft but the point is forwards are worth more for business then defense which was the argument I was noting which for me gives Tavares the advantage when it comes to the nhl entry draft. Also the team's needs come into play when two players are soo similiar.

My prediction:

LA Kings. - Have Jack Johnson, Doughty, Teubert, Hickey etc.
Prediction: Tavares. Get an elite forward that can put fans in the seat with Kopitar.

Tor: Tavares. Local oakville boy will set the city into a frenzy.

NYI: Could go either way. But I see Tavares over Hedman. Why not have a Tavares/Okposo combo. Similiar to Toews/Kane which made Chicago Blackhawks hockey very exciting. Something that the Islanders need to fill the stands and get people back.


Unless Tavares has a serious set back I see him being #1 even though on the ISS he should be #2 IMO.

 

[nanzenkills]

No he didn't but what he had was the third highest career PPG average before the injuries. Only Gretz and Mario were better. Anyone who doesn't think Lindros was a rare talent is extremely mistaken. Lindros has the tools to be one of the most dominating forces to ever strap on a pair of skates. This was a guy that was 6'4, 230-240 lbs that can skate well, hit like a truck, and pot 40+ goals a season and the potential to put up 100+ points a season. Players like that don't come around to often There was point between 94 and 97 that I would consider Eric the best player in the world. Eric's downfall was his junior days. He was too good of player when playing in the OHL. He would just run over people due to his size and he tried the same tactics in the NHL. Only difference was guys like Stevens and Kasparitus didn't exist in the "O".

Actually, Lindros was 4th, not 3rd. Mike Bossy had a better career PPG (1.50 to 1.46) than Lindros' first 5 seasons in the NHL (his first concussion came near the end of his 6th NHL season).

But I do agree with your overall point. Lindros was a rare talent, and I would classify him as a generational talent, but not a generational player, because injuries did severely derail his career too soon. Even before the concussions, he wasn't the most durable player in the world; in his first 5 NHL seasons, he only played more than 65 games in a season once.

 

[nanzenkills]

You are totally wrong. Hockey is a business. When there is a tie and players are soo close to eachother you will most likely take what you need. But the emphesis comes to forwards. Forwards bring immediate help and fans in the stands.

Erik Johnsons impact vs Ovechkins rookie year vs Malkins vs Crosby's.

Where do you rank Johnson on this list?

Exactly at the bottom. Crosby = $$$$ over Johnson. Erik Johnson will be a great defensemen but hes not as exciting as a Crosby, Ovechkin etc. Even Patrick Kane was more recognized this past year over him. The media coverage was huge for Kane and almost non existant for Johnson. Although thats mainly because it takes a while for a defensemen to mature to actually have huge impact in the nhl. Look at Bouwmeester. Nash was selected over him. Ovechkin/Malkin were taken over Barker. When Barker was drafted he was also named a "franchise dman".

If toronto has the #1 pick they will take Tavares. Oakville native will give this city a huge marketing campaign. How many Tavares jerseys will be sold in Toronto of Hedman? Welcome to Business 101. Hockey is a business.

Hockey may be a business, but no NHL team is dumb enough to make their personnel moves based on fan consensus. Especially a team like Toronto, where they will fill their arena no matter what they do. They will take whomever they feel will be the best player of the two.

Now all that being said, I would still lean towards Tavares. I think Hedman has more upside, but I think Tavares is a safer bet to become a franchise player.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

You are totally wrong. Hockey is a business. When there is a tie and players are soo close to eachother you will most likely take what you need. But the emphesis comes to forwards. Forwards bring immediate help and fans in the stands.

Erik Johnsons impact vs Ovechkins rookie year vs Malkins vs Crosby's.

Where do you rank Johnson on this list?

Exactly at the bottom. Crosby = $$$$ over Johnson. Erik Johnson will be a great defensemen but hes not as exciting as a Crosby, Ovechkin etc. Even Patrick Kane was more recognized this past year over him. The media coverage was huge for Kane and almost non existant for Johnson. Although thats mainly because it takes a while for a defensemen to mature to actually have huge impact in the nhl. Look at Bouwmeester. Nash was selected over him. Ovechkin/Malkin were taken over Barker. When Barker was drafted he was also named a "franchise dman".

If toronto has the #1 pick they will take Tavares. Oakville native will give this city a huge marketing campaign. How many Tavares jerseys will be sold in Toronto of Hedman? Welcome to Business 101. Hockey is a business.

I'll say it right now. I'll take a Dion Phaneuf over an Ovechkin or a Crosby any day of the week. Defensemen like Phaneuf are a rarity in this league. They can neutralize an Ovechkin or a Crosby or a Malkin, can contribute offensively and is the type of guy I want on the ice with less than a minute in the game.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think Crosby or Ovechkin or Malkin are even the best players in the game. I'd take Zetterberg over those three, any day.

 

[AlMo]

I'll say it right now. I'll take a Dion Phaneuf over an Ovechkin or a Crosby any day of the week. Defensemen like Phaneuf are a rarity in this league. They can neutralize an Ovechkin or a Crosby or a Malkin, can contribute offensively and is the type of guy I want on the ice with less than a minute in the game.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think Crosby or Ovechkin or Malkin are even the best players in the game. I'd take Zetterberg over those three, any day.

This is the reason you sit in front of a computer rather than run an NHL team. I like Phaneuf alot and it will ony be a matter of time before he wins a Norris but more important than a Crosby or Ovechkin? C'mon man, thats just insane. You talk about dmen like Phaneuf are a rarity but how many forwards are scoring 60+ goals in a season? How many 21 year olds can put up 120 points in a season?

Zetterberg is a fantastic player but he is NOT better than Crosby or Ovechkin or Malkin. These players have all had better seasons than Zetterberg has had to date. Zetterberg has also been in the league longer and plays on the best team in hockey. Could you imagine what AO can do with a center like Datsyuk? Imagine how many more PP points Crosby and Malkin would get with Lidstrom running the point?

I would take Ovechkin or Crosby over anybody in the game....anybody!

 

[leafmon]

I'll say it right now. I'll take a Dion Phaneuf over an Ovechkin or a Crosby any day of the week. Defensemen like Phaneuf are a rarity in this league. They can neutralize an Ovechkin or a Crosby or a Malkin, can contribute offensively and is the type of guy I want on the ice with less than a minute in the game.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think Crosby or Ovechkin or Malkin are even the best players in the game. I'd take Zetterberg over those three, any day.

You would be on a short list doing that !

Tavares will continue to score at the same pace in the OHL and I'd even expect the 2 PPG avg to go up . I don't care who his wingers are. His new left winger Robert Kousal will easily score forty goals. Truth is ,rightly or wrongly , Tavares doesn't really have a chance to improve his stock with anybody until the WJC. His biggest problem with people on here is he just isn't as dynamic as they expected to see. His production can't be denied as he will have 3 years that were as productive as many past first overalls. He will produce first line numbers at the next level....no question . There are a few other parts to his game that are still waiting to be figured out ie...two way play...... but his bread and butter ,offense will carry on

 

[Passchendaele]

three points tonight.

that's nine points in his first three games.