C John Tavares (2009, 1st overall, NYI) III & IV

[Dave D]

I said this in another thread as well, I just don't think his goal and point totals will have any bearing on whether or not JT can go #1. I think it has more to do with his ability to create offense and show a dynamic offensive presence from the wing at even strength at the World Juniors. There is no way JT plays center in the NHL, if you are going to take JT #1 you have to know he is going to step into your line-up and play right away. His projection is based on his ability to create offense from the wing IMO.

It would be even better if he got traded from Oshawa to a team that has depth down the middle, allowing him to play the wing the entire season.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That is correct. Only Lee made the NHL though. How in the world Godden didnt even make it by accident is beyond me.

For the record, Godden did play 5 games with the Leafs in 1981-82. Remember though that back then guys who were 5-8, 160 were not given much of a chance. Everybody had goal-scorers on their roster. You didn't have to take a chance on a 5-8 player. Times have changed dramatically. If Godden were eligible for the draft today, and if he were to put up the 80-goal season as a 17-year-old a la Tavares potentially, he'd defintely be in the discussion for No. 1 overall and would definitely get a great opportunity at the NHL level.

 

[Hale The Villain]

All he has to do is show up to Montreal on draft day

I am starting to think that Hedman is just a passing fad. I mean we are talking about a guy who beat Wayne Gretzky's scoring record as a 16 year old. His puck-skills are hand in hand with Crosby's probably better the year he was getting drafted. He can stickhadle in phonebooth and his vision is nuts. He is extremely dangerous and I have heard that most teams when he was playing they put two guys on him at all times and he still got the stats he did. His skating has improved and he is a guy who knows what he has to do to win. His ceiling is perhaps the highest of any player in the last decade, I would say higher than Crosby if he shows us up this season.

But he will have to improve greatly this season if he wants to reach his full potential. Which is a mega superstar (Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin)

 

[Jag68Sid87]

As far as Tavares going No. 1 overall, I think it depends mainly on the teams drafting 1 and 2 next summer. Teams can say they'll take the "Best Player Available" until they are blue in the face, but when it comes to elite prospects such as Hedman and Tavares, the ultimate decision will rest with the team. A team like Toronto would take Tavares because they seem to have a very strong blueline, both for right now and down the road. But they lack the No. 1 center, so unless they acquire one before then (in which case they may not be in the sweepstakes anyway) Tavares would be their most logical target.

On the other hand, what happens if Tampa Bay doesn't improve at all and winds up dead last again, or if they're bottom five and win the lottery? With Lecavalier and Stamkos to build around up front, they'll take Hedman.

Now, what will become interesting is if a third player challenges Hedman and Tavares but until then I think who goes No. 1 will be determined by organizational needs and philosophy.

 

[therealdeal]

Not talking about talent here my friend. It's all about character and attitude.

And no, Lindros was not on his way to "becoming one of the greatest players of all time". Wow...
Those sorts of statements are reserved for the Gretzky's, Lemiuex's, Orr's, Bourque's, etc.
Not a prima donna who refuses to play for his drafted team.

Lindross was well above 2 points per game before the injuries, he was an unstoppable scoring and physical force, people really seem to forget what sort of an impact he had on the game.

Also, you talk about improving his overall game, well what exactly did he do last year? Completely went with improving his playmaking, scored some big goals at the WJC, and still maintained his PPG from the season before. Is that not a major improvement?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Lindross was well above 2 points per game before the injuries, he was an unstoppable scoring and physical force, people really seem to forget what sort of an impact he had on the game.

Also, you talk about improving his overall game, well what exactly did he do last year? Completely went with improving his playmaking, scored some big goals at the WJC, and still maintained his PPG from the season before. Is that not a major improvement?

Lindros lacked what most (if not all) of the all-time greats had...elite hockey sense. In fact, his was below average. His demise was inevitable without it.

 

[Epsilon]

All he has to do is show up to Montreal on draft day

I am starting to think that Hedman is just a passing fad. I mean we are talking about a guy who beat Wayne Gretzky's scoring record as a 16 year old. His puck-skills are hand in hand with Crosby's probably better the year he was getting drafted. He can stickhadle in phonebooth and his vision is nuts. He is extremely dangerous and I have heard that most teams when he was playing they put two guys on him at all times and he still got the stats he did. His skating has improved and he is a guy who knows what he has to do to win. His ceiling is perhaps the highest of any player in the last decade, I would say higher than Crosby if he shows us up this season.

But he will have to improve greatly this season if he wants to reach his full potential. Which is a mega superstar (Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin)

If anything is a passing fad, it's claiming that Tavares is a lock to go #1 overall because he beat a Gretzky record at 16.

The McKenzie article pretty much has this draft described perfectly. As of right now, Hedman and Tavares are the top two, and both are pretty close together. If the draft was today, the team picking first overall would probably choose based on their preference for a defenseman or forward. If either guy stumbles, there are 4 players right below them who have the ability to move up into the top 2 with a big season.

Anyone who thinks Tavares can have a ho-hum season and simply fall into the #1 overall spot is clearly not paying much attention to this draft.

 

[Dempsey]

Lindros lacked what most (if not all) of the all-time greats had...elite hockey sense. In fact, his was below average. His demise was inevitable without it.

Only if by "hockey sense" you somehow mean knowing to keep your head up crossing the blueline when Stevens is on the ice. Otherwise, you're way off.

 

[Levizk]

Lindross was well above 2 points per game before the injuries, he was an unstoppable scoring and physical force, people really seem to forget what sort of an impact he had on the game.

Also, you talk about improving his overall game, well what exactly did he do last year? Completely went with improving his playmaking, scored some big goals at the WJC, and still maintained his PPG from the season before. Is that not a major improvement?

Huh? Lindros never had a single season in his NHL career where he averaged 2 points per game, so how could he be well above 2 points per game before his injuries? The guy had one season where he scored over 100 points, and that was a season where he scored 115 in 73 games, for those that can't multiply that would require 146 points for a 2 point per game average. Those types of stats don't get you in with the all-time greats in this league, and certainly don't make you an unstoppable scoring force. The guy never even scored 50 goals once in his career.

I'd be interested to see how you came up with that 2 points per game number before his injuries, or if you just mixed him up with something you heard about Mario Lemieux.

 

[slumpy43]

OHL 70+ club (since 1977)

87 goals -Ernie Godden 19 yrs old (68 games)
81 goals -Ray Sheppard 19 yrs old (63 games)
81 goals -Toni Tanti 17 yrs old (67 games)
72 goals -John Tavares 16 yrs old (67 games)
71 goals -Eric Lindros 17 yrs old (57 games)
70 goals -Doug Gilmour 19 yrs old (68 games)
70 goals -Wayne Gretzky 16 years old (64 games)

According to Bugg, Peter Lee had 81 also.

 

[nanzenkills]

Huh? Lindros never had a single season in his NHL career where he averaged 2 points per game, so how could he be well above 2 points per game before his injuries? The guy had one season where he scored over 100 points, and that was a season where he scored 115 in 73 games, for those that can't multiply that would require 146 points for a 2 point per game average. Those types of stats don't get you in with the all-time greats in this league, and certainly don't make you an unstoppable scoring force. The guy never even scored 50 goals once in his career.

I'd be interested to see how you came up with that 2 points per game number before his injuries, or if you just mixed him up with something you heard about Mario Lemieux.

Agreed. At no point in his NHL career was Lindros anywhere near 2 points per game.

 

[Hyack57]

Lindross was well above 2 points per game before the injuries, he was an unstoppable scoring and physical force, people really seem to forget what sort of an impact he had on the game.

Also, you talk about improving his overall game, well what exactly did he do last year? Completely went with improving his playmaking, scored some big goals at the WJC, and still maintained his PPG from the season before. Is that not a major improvement?

Cripes, I'm not comparing HOCKEY SKILL when I speak of the differences between Lindros AS AN 18 YEAR OLD and Crosby AS AN 18 YEAR OLD and including Tavares in that line of thought.

What did Crosby have that Lindros didn't when he was drafted?
Respect and Class.

 

[The Scouting Report]

Cripes, I'm not comparing HOCKEY SKILL when I speak of the differences between Lindros AS AN 18 YEAR OLD and Crosby AS AN 18 YEAR OLD and including Tavares in that line of thought.

What did Crosby have that Lindros didn't when he was drafted?
Respect and Class.

Well Tavares is one of the nicest kids you will ever meet. So don't worry about that..

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

For the record, Godden did play 5 games with the Leafs in 1981-82. Remember though that back then guys who were 5-8, 160 were not given much of a chance. Everybody had goal-scorers on their roster. You didn't have to take a chance on a 5-8 player. Times have changed dramatically. If Godden were eligible for the draft today, and if he were to put up the 80-goal season as a 17-year-old a la Tavares potentially, he'd defintely be in the discussion for No. 1 overall and would definitely get a great opportunity at the NHL level.

Not sure if you were implying this to be the case or not, but I'll just put this out there.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=7430

Ernie Godden scored 87 goals as a 19-year-old in his third season of major junior hockey.

Tavares turned his trick of 72 as a 16-year-old in only his second season of major junior hockey. At that level, age and experience need to be considered as much as scoring statistics.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Not sure if you were implying this to be the case or not, but I'll just put this out there.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=7430

Ernie Godden scored 87 goals as a 19-year-old in his third season of major junior hockey.

Tavares turned his trick of 72 as a 16-year-old in only his second season of major junior hockey. At that level, age and experience need to be considered as much as scoring statistics.

Yeah, what I mean to say was that if a guy like Godden comes along today and he puts up those numbers at an age similar to Tavares, he would get recognition for No. 1 overall and he would get better NHL opportunities. I didn't say it properly the first time, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Only if by "hockey sense" you somehow mean knowing to keep your head up crossing the blueline when Stevens is on the ice. Otherwise, you're way off.

Well, there's that, but also a lack of creativity with the puck. Lindros played a bull-in-a-china-shop game that was all about overpowering the opponent. He might have had even less success had he started his career in today's NHL, where coaching and systems are even more prevalent. The less creative you are, the easier it is to shut you down today. Coaches take those types of players out of the game, unless you can adjust your game and diversify. Lindros couldn't do that, he just was one of the most incredible physical specimens to ever lace 'em up.

 

[NativeHockey77*]

ok, we all know Tavares is gonna light it up, get 90+ goals, and go first overall....why were arguing??

 

[Street Hawk]

Weakness

Simple, JT needs to improve on his greatest weakness, which is his skating. Hopefully, he's been working on that in the summer. He'll never be a burner like Stamkos, but he's got to be above average in his skater to be a dominate player, because he doesn't play a power forward type of game. He's got good size, but he's not the run over guys type of player.

 

[drew1234]

Well, there's that, but also a lack of creativity with the puck. Lindros played a bull-in-a-china-shop game that was all about overpowering the opponent. He might have had even less success had he started his career in today's NHL, where coaching and systems are even more prevalent. The less creative you are, the easier it is to shut you down today. Coaches take those types of players out of the game, unless you can adjust your game and diversify. Lindros couldn't do that, he just was one of the most incredible physical specimens to ever lace 'em up.

Lindros played during the time when scoring was at its all time low. He made Rob Pearson in the OHL look like a 1st rd pick (which he ended up being). He made Leclair go from 25 goals to 50+. He made Renberg have his career numbers. Elite centres make players around them play better. Lindros was an elite player during his time. He was League MVP. If he was in today's NHL he would of been better because theres no more clutching and grabbing where the only way to stop lindros was either to catch him with his head down or hold him so he couldnt move. Yes he was a bull and his shot was awesome and he had good playmaking skills for a player his size.

BTW a lot of people have respect for him as if he didnt do you think he would be in the position he is in today with the NHLPA. Sure, he didnt want to go to Quebec. No one truly knows the reasons. Rumours were Sponsership wasnt there in Quebec as their franchise was on the verg of bankrupcy (moved to colorado), didnt want to speak french etc.. I dont know the true reasons but hockey is a business. Do I agree with what Lindros did. No. But that has nothing to do with his on ice skills.

Lemeiux complained at the time about the clutching and grabbing and didnt want to come back to the NHL til it was fixed. He was right. Slowing players down, playing the trap was not fun and prevented creativity. Lindros if not slowed down, could just power himself to the front of the net and score like crazy. Who could of stopped him? Only one man. Scott Stevens.... But that leaves 28 other teams in trouble against Lindros.

 

[eightyseven]

Tavares is a good junior player and does it really matter whether he is picked #1 or #2 in the draft!? My bet is that he will still be picked #1 but who knows.

Regardless, it's more important what he does AFTER the draft, i.e. whether he has a long and successful NHL career. Draft status won't mean a thing, a few years from now on if say, for example, he's still grinding it out in the minors, has left hockey altogether after a career-ending injury or has become a premiere offensive talent like a Dany Heatley at the NHL level. His fate is in his own hands.

Ppl have to realize that the Canadian media (esp. TSN!) LOVE to analyze and basically play head-games with the upcoming prospects and this is due to Canada's passion for the game (and thus, all the attention that comes with it). Sometimes it is pretty harsh, and may not even be justified, but I'm sure Tavares and his agent & supporters are giving him the right advice by IGNORING all of that hype/criticism (as much as possible) because he is still a young player and still developing. You have to not only have the skill level, but the mental and physical maturity to play at the NHL level. So hopefully, Tavares is not second-guessing his abilities with all the media that has been ripping him apart, and sticks to his gut. From what I've seen, he is a committed player with a good work ethic so that will go a long way.

 

[Ryan Van Horne]

Yeah, what I mean to say was that if a guy like Godden comes along today and he puts up those numbers at an age similar to Tavares, he would get recognition for No. 1 overall and he would get better NHL opportunities. I didn't say it properly the first time, thanks for pointing that out.

I agree, a player Godden's size would get much more attention from NHL scouts and GMs today.

 

[the_speedster]

....to cement a #1 pick status this year?

What do you guys see him doing at the WJC this year? That is the biggest hype machine out there, so I would say that is the place where Tavares, Cowen, and Hedman make their case for #1.

Who else sees Cowen going ahead of Hedman this draft year?

I think Tavares will go #1, Cowen will go #2, and Hedman will go#3 this year. I see a big WJC out of Cowen and Tavares to justify this.

thoughts?

either pick sarah palin as his running mate



or have an even more monstrous season than two years ago,

lead the wjc in scoring

dominate hedman every time they play each other.
regardless, the kids going to be in the nhl in a little over a year. Going second overall is no shame.... I guarantee none on this board has gone top 5 in anything hockey related so,...ease off on the kids

 

[HabLover]

Tavares is on the board!!!

5 minutes in, he's got an assist...........is this a sign of things to come?

 

[Stamvarhall*]

Well Scoring 2 goals and 2 assists in your first game of the season is a good way to start his quest to regaining the top spot for next years draft, I haven't a shred of doubt that he will indeed regain the top seed, and undisputibly at that.



Displaying Goal Scoring as well as his elite play making. Ernie Godden who?

 

[The Scouting Report]

Well Scoring 2 goals and 2 assists in your first game of the season is a good way to start his quest to regaining the top spot for next years draft, I haven't a shred of doubt that he will indeed regain the top seed, and undisputibly at that.



Displaying Goal Scoring as well as his elite play making. Ernie Godden who?

Not only is that impressive, Tavares was all of Oshawa's offense tonight. He is playing with Robert Kousal (90) and Alexander Denezhkin (91), Kousal is decent but Denezhkin is far from being a top 6 forward in the OHL.

Tavares' first goal was a wicked one timer from the top of the circle on the powerplay, which he shelfed on Loverock. His second goal, he undressed Sergei Sheleg shorthanded and cut across the crease to beat Loverock up top.

Overall I was pretty impressed with JT tonight, he dominated the faceoff circle and as I said before, almost all of Oshawa's chances involved him.

If for some reason he doesn't get traded, and plays with this lineup and puts up 100 points or more, that will be simply amazing... cause literally tonight he had nobody to play with but himself.