C Jack Hughes - USNTDP (2019, 1st, NJD) Part 6

[TrufleShufle]

Umm, a bunch of posters said this, and I caught flack for suggesting it wasn't true. I mean, I said to a bunch he wasn't on the same tier as Matthews, Eichel and Dahlin, and I can remember the push back.

The thing is though, I repeatedly said no scout was saying these things all of last year and got significant push back. I remember Devil's fans getting pissy when I said hope to expect a Marner or Barzal type player after the lottery. Being told to expect a Patrick Kane like player, who was a 70 point player in year one. So, now that he's shown in year one he wasn't near generational like some people in this thread were trying to throw around all of last year, outside opinions don't matter? Fine. I'm not saying you did this, but to not act like people did is mis-representing my original point.

Again, my only point was, “nobody who mattered, said that.” That’s it.

I won’t argue or try to refute anything else you said.

 

[Hockey Man]

i personally believed that hughes shouldve been given a year in college hockey prior to coming into the NHL. i personally felt that his size, lack of strength, and junior hockey habits would limit his effectiveness in year one to an extent that he wouldve seen better progression while playing a year in the NCAA. he could’ve continued to post very good offensive numbers whilst having to focus on the defensive side of the game more, and adjust to playing bigger, faster, stronger, smarter players, and of course an opportunity to compete with a winning team for a championship. i also held the belief that if hughes had to play this year in the NHL, he shouldve played it on the wings, not at center.

of course this wouldn’t happen because the optics of having a first overall pick not come directly into the league wouldve been awful. i was attacked for voicing these opinions in the devils boards prior to the start of the season. many people absolutely believed, especially devils fans, that jack hughes would be able to post 50+ points this season. i still believe jack hughes has the potential to be an elite player in the NHL, but obviously he will need some time to get there.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Except your argument was easy if it was average. Which it wouldn't be. 8.5% is above average and even that only pushes it about to 40. You are expecting another 10 points to materialize out of optimism. Look, he is statistically under-achieving given what he is generating, you are just oign to far in the opposite direction.

Average puck luck for skilled players implies a greater than average oish.

But maybe you're right. Eye test tells me he should have ~10 more points. That would put him right around 47 point pace. Perhaps I should have said "if the bounces were going the other way" he'd easily have 50 points. But honestly, if he was having good luck he could be closer to 55-60 point pace.

ES oish of 5.25% is pretty brutal.

 

[93LEAFS]

Again, my only point was, “nobody who mattered, said that.” That’s it.

I won’t argue or try to refute anything else you said.

You also said this was the season people were expecting, I can't find a bunch of experts saying that. Which it isn't. I pointed that out through the people who I quoted. Do you seriously think people were expecting him to play at a 35 point pace? Have the worst actual production for a 1st overall forward since 2005? I've acknowledged there were underlying reasons and he's not getting bounces, but, saying this was expected is going too far the other way to downplay this season's production.

 

[93LEAFS]

Average puck luck for skilled players implies a greater than average oish.

But maybe you're right. Eye test tells me he should have ~10 more points. That would put him right around 47 point pace. Perhaps I should have said "if the bounces were going the other way" he'd easily have 50 points. But honestly, if he was having good luck he could be closer to 55-60 point pace.

ES oish of 5.25% is pretty brutal.

The thing is, 8.5% isn't completely out of line with elite players on average. Even if you bump it to 9%, that is essentially one point at 5v5 with the chances he is generating. I get he doesn't have a solid trigger-man at 5v5 and Devil's aren't a team that is good at finishing at 5v5 or on the PP.

 

[TrufleShufle]

You also said this was the season people were expecting, I can't find a bunch of experts saying that. Which it isn't. I pointed that out through the people who I quoted. Do you seriously think people were expecting him to play at a 35 point pace? Have the worst actual production for a 1st overall forward since 2005? I've acknowledged there were underlying reasons and he's not getting bounces, but, saying this was expected is going too far the other way to downplay this season's production.

How about we say we were both wrong and move on? The truth of what people said is somewhere in the middle. Deal?

 

[93LEAFS]

How about we say we were both wrong and move on? The truth of what people said is somewhere in the middle. Deal?

Fine.

 

[Albatros]

If he gets really lucky he could reach 30 points this season, talking about 50 or 60 is delusional and has no connection to reality.

 

[TimeZone]

Definitely the most underwhelmed I've been by watching a first overall pick in recent memory.

Dude gets pushed around more than any other player I've ever seen and has an absolute muffin of a shot.

The potential is definitely there but he's got a long way to go. Gonna need a big offseason in the gym.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Definitely the most underwhelmed I've been by watching a first overall pick in recent memory.

Dude gets pushed around more than any other player I've ever seen and has an absolute muffin of a shot.

The potential is definitely there but he's got a long way to go. Gonna need a big offseason in the gym.

Clearly you dont watch much, shot really isnt bad, actually been impressed at its speed compared to what i expected.

 

[goonybird]

people saying Hughes is a generational talent: 0

people saying he isn't: 354234

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I hope Jack is disappointed with his numbers this year and uses it to become a better player next year. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t expect a little more from him this year. He’s got a lot of talent and I’m not too worried about it but he’s got some work to do.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Clearly you dont watch much, shot really isnt bad, actually been impressed at its speed compared to what i expected.

he himself said he had to work on his shot whereas the Gretzky, Crosby’s type had a laser shot before Day 1. That was concerning (for me) prior to the draft.

His skating, COD, vision and passing is as good as it gets. Phenomenal actually

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

he himself said he had to work on his shot whereas the Gretzky, Crosby’s type had a laser shot before Day 1. That was concerning (for me) prior to the draft.

His skating, COD, vision and passing is as good as it gets. Phenomenal actually

Im not saying he has a laser but i expected a true muffin and even guys on the Devils said his shot was surprisingly better than they expected. Feel like his shot is decent and theres obviously room for it to improve.

 

[Favin]

Being told to expect a Patrick Kane like player, who was a 70 point player in year one.

Patrick Kane was older at the start of the season than Jack Hughes will be at the end of the season. He also had an extra year in junior to transition to NHL.

Hughes is the youngest player in NHL. He is also the lightest. He plays on a crap team, has seen his coach fired, his GM fired, his mentor traded, and his billet dad/goalie demoted to AHL.

He will be fine.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Definitely the most underwhelmed I've been by watching a first overall pick in recent memory.

Dude gets pushed around more than any other player I've ever seen and has an absolute muffin of a shot.

The potential is definitely there but he's got a long way to go. Gonna need a big offseason in the gym.

he needs to study Johnny Gaudreau. Of course Gaudreau didn't join the league until he was already 21. Probably makes a difference

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Worst 1st overall of the last 20 years.

Don't think so. Having the worst statistical season but i'd bank on him being better than Yak, DiPietro, Johnson, even RNH, and a better point scorer than Hischier at their peaks

 

[canuck2010]

Yes ready for the NHL on the Devils but on the Bruins, Blues, Caps, no. You get the idea.

 

[TimeZone]

Clearly you dont watch much, shot really isnt bad, actually been impressed at its speed compared to what i expected.

I watch A LOT of Devils games as my best friend is a Devils fan.

His shot is very, very weak and needs to be worked on, as he's admitted himself.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

I watch A LOT of Devils games as my best friend is a Devils fan.

His shot is very, very weak and needs to be worked on, as he's admitted himself.

I can also put things in ALL CAPS, doesn't validate your opinion. Obviously needs to be worked on but you are exaggerating for effect clearly.

 

[tealhockey]

I watch A LOT of Devils games as my best friend is a Devils fan.

His shot is very, very weak and needs to be worked on, as he's admitted himself.

There are some instances where it looks good but on the whole I think it's a weak point

 

[TimeZone]

I can also put things in ALL CAPS, doesn't validate your opinion. Obviously needs to be worked on but you are exaggerating for effect clearly.

You'd definitely need to do more than use caps to help validate your stance on Jack not having a muffin shot.

 

[Bankers Box]

I haven’t been too impressed by his shot, not a muffin but it’s below average.

If he had a better shot people wouldn’t be ragging on his point total bc when he able to play his game he produces a lot of scoring opportunities, just can’t finish for the life of him.

Nico and Jack both are rage inducing when you see the skill and the scoring chances they produce only to shoot it directly into the goalie’s chest.

 

[93LEAFS]

Patrick Kane was older at the start of the season than Jack Hughes will be at the end of the season. He also had an extra year in junior to transition to NHL.

Hughes is the youngest player in NHL. He is also the lightest. He plays on a crap team, has seen his coach fired, his GM fired, his mentor traded, and his billet dad/goalie demoted to AHL.

He will be fine.

Kane was also smaller than Hughes. And, the age difference among top picks of the draft tends to be quite small. The only player younger was Sam Gagner in Kane's rookie year. Hughes also isn't the lightest player in the league. Atleast if you believe weight listings. Yamamoto, Farabee, Byron, Gusev, and Gaudreau are all listed as lighter.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Kane was also smaller than Hughes. And, the age difference among top picks of the draft tends to be quite small. The only player younger was Sam Gagner in Kane's rookie year. Hughes also isn't the lightest player in the league. Atleast if you believe weight listings. Yamamoto, Farabee, Byron, Gusev, and Gaudreau are all listed as lighter.

height and weight listings are fake news