C Henrik Borgström - HIFK, Liiga (2016, 23rd, FLA; traded to CHI)

Hockeyisl1fe

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Dec 8, 2016
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Yes you are biased if you dismiss 16 games with Finland u20! Nothing wrong to be a fan of a prospect and coming from the same country as i can see in other posts about Borgstrom.

Have only seen the highligts you tube clips and that was entertaining. So are Omark and shremps highlights! Saw also 4 games from the disaster U20 wJC 2017,didnt noticed him at all.

He has never played in a mens leuage and that dangle stuff wont work there, he also seems to not work enough way from the puck and his defensive side needs a big boost.

Sure he will have his chances because hes big and have some skills. How it turns out is a big ? But so far he hasnt done anything in a mens leuage, we haave to wait and see if he can make a splash in Ahl next season.

I rest my case a couple of year!
You can totally dismiss his international u20 games knowing who was the coach... especially since you clearly are basing it only on stats. Jukka Rautakorpi is a meme here for his hand break hockey, it wasn't exactly an ideal environment for a player like Borgström to produce.
 
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McClelland

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And performing great against peers =/= a surefire NHLer. There are lots of examples, but from my "finnish homer perspective" I give you Teemu Pulkkinen. Nothing is guaranteed, but Borgström surely has great tools to become an effective NHLer. You offer nothing to this discussion except your obvious hate for Borgström.

Hate? LOL! Having sober espectations isnt hate! So performing in Ncaa makes you a sure Nhl player. How many examples do you need, can give you double digits instead of 2.

Good luck with your prospect, we will see in a couple of years!
 

Hockeyisl1fe

Registered User
Dec 8, 2016
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Hate? LOL! Having sober espectations isnt hate! So performing in Ncaa makes you a sure Nhl player. How many examples do you need, can give you double digits instead of 2.

Good luck with your prospect, we will see in a couple of years!
When I have said that he is a surefire NHLer? I specially stated that nothing is guaranteed.
 

kabidjan18

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Apr 20, 2015
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Yes you are biased if you dismiss 16 games with Finland u20! Nothing wrong to be a fan of a prospect and coming from the same country as i can see in other posts about Borgstrom.
Well considering 10 of those games were pre-season friendly matches essentially then no, there's no bias in dismissing 6 games. There's extreme bias in including 6 games in any significant way into any assessment. Even if we weight it, we weight it as 6 games and wow, the result is the the impact is miniscule and irrelevant.

Have only seen the highligts you tube clips and that was entertaining. So are Omark and shremps highlights! Saw also 4 games from the disaster U20 wJC 2017,didnt noticed him at all.

He has never played in a mens leuage and that dangle stuff wont work there, he also seems to not work enough away from the puck and his defensive side needs a big boost.
Is this literally your argument? "Well, two players he has nothing in common with other than that they all have good hands didn't turn out so well, it's wide open suddenly isn't it?" No. That's absurd of the highest proportion. There are two examples, more examples of any individuals who failed to make it despite possessing any trait. Allowing such arguments I could make the case against any prospect with any number of purely ludicrous examples and unwarranted comparisons. "Rasmus Dahlin won't be a good NHL player, look at Marcus Nygren! They're both playmaking D." "Patrik Laine won't be a great NHL player, look at Jamie Lundmark! They're both snipers!" Absurd comparisons are not a case, absurd comparisons are absurd.

Ok? And you know where Connor McDavid had played before he played in a men's league? NOT A MEN'S LEAGUE! You know where Jack Eichel played before he played in a men's league? NOT A MEN'S LEAGUE? Do I recall anyone from that time period going "well let's see it's a very reasonable argument that since Eichel hasn't played in a men's league we don't really know if he could be a pro or not because we haven't seen him against men and maybe he doesn't work enough in the defensive end..." NO! We didn't! You know how many men's leagues Mitch Marner had played in before he played in the NHL? NONE! This argument is so broad, it could be applied to any large number of players currently in the NHL or near the NHL. And "dangle stuff wont work there" do you even watch the NHL? I watch every night, I see dangles literally all the time. And I'm the first, probably don't even have to go back a page, to see me say that he needs more ways to control possession to buy himself time at the next level and I recommended gaining some weight. But this is an awful argument. If you ever watch the NHL you'd know that people get past defenders using their hands all the time. You don't necessarily want people to be prepared for your dangles, you want a full toolbox. But to suggest that good hands don't translate to the NHL is silly.

Sure he will have his chances because hes big and have some skills. How it turns out is a big ? But so far he hasnt done anything in a mens leuage, we haave to wait and see if he can make a splash in Ahl next season.

I rest my case a couple of year!
Here we go with that men's league stuff again...

You have no case to rest. In traditional philosophy, knowledge is defined as warranted true belief. Warrant implies proof. It implies a coherent argument. True belief is not enough. I could have said "Auston Matthews will win the Calder" but if my reasoning was "he goes to the number 2 standing up" then I can't claim knowledge. I could perhaps claim belief, or supposition, or instinct, but I can't claim a case because I had none. You have no case, because every single one of your arguments and tactics could be applied to just about any prospect and they would work equally well. The only one that is remotely specific to Borgstrom goes off of a 6 games sample, and willfully ignores a much greater and much more logically admissible body of evidence. So even if you are right, there's no cogent way you could claim anything more than you had a hunch that was correct.
 

FinlandPanther

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Its okay to be a biased fanboy of a prospect, but discussing a prospect leads to questions, in his case a big ? of his U20 performances. Its a good indication if you can stick out when playing against the best in the class!
Stamkos was pretty bad in the WJC and Barzal. They suck oretty bad. GG NO RE.
 

FinlandPanther

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Yes you are biased if you dismiss 16 games with Finland u20! Nothing wrong to be a fan of a prospect and coming from the same country as i can see in other posts about Borgstrom.

Have only seen the highligts you tube clips and that was entertaining. So are Omark and shremps highlights! Saw also 4 games from the disaster U20 wJC 2017,didnt noticed him at all.

He has never played in a mens leuage and that dangle stuff wont work there, he also seems to not work enough away from the puck and his defensive side needs a big boost.

Sure he will have his chances because hes big and have some skills. How it turns out is a big ? But so far he hasnt done anything in a mens leuage, we haave to wait and see if he can make a splash in Ahl next season.

I rest my case a couple of year!
Oh I can’t wait to see how wrong you are but even you know you’re wrong so I’ll just pray for you.
 

McClelland

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Aug 2, 2011
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Doesnt qoute your novel!:laugh:

The problem with blind fans of a certain prospect is that they take offence f someone has ? about that player!

You also take away friendly games there players fight for a spot as nothing. Good players always comes out hard in any game! Compare players who went straght from juniors to Nhl or Ahl with a guy who plays college hockey, is quite stupid i must say. A first rounder who plays his 2 year in College isnt having a normal path to be a ev. Nhl player.

He could be a late bloomer and need strenght and weight! He could also be one of those skilled players who doesnt keep up in the big leuage with less space and much much faster game where you often need to get into the dirty areas to make something happen.

You can compare him vs Nucks Pettersson who rips off the Shl at same ages who also are big and lanky need to put on some pounds muscles and weight, he still dominates in a mens leauge and probably goes straight in to a Nhl roster next season!

Tired of bias posts who doesnt see any problem with a first rounder still in college!
 

Castle8130

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May 9, 2017
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Yes you are biased if you dismiss 16 games with Finland u20! Nothing wrong to be a fan of a prospect and coming from the same country as i can see in other posts about Borgstrom.

Have only seen the highligts you tube clips and that was entertaining. So are Omark and shremps highlights! Saw also 4 games from the disaster U20 wJC 2017,didnt noticed him at all.

He has never played in a mens leuage and that dangle stuff wont work there, he also seems to not work enough away from the puck and his defensive side needs a big boost.

Sure he will have his chances because hes big and have some skills. How it turns out is a big ? But so far he hasnt done anything in a mens leuage, we haave to wait and see if he can make a splash in Ahl next season.

I rest my case a couple of year!
Yeah... Pavel Datsyuk and Tavares haven't done well with that dangle stuff either:laugh:
 
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McClelland

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Yeah... Pavel Datsyuk and Tavares haven't done well with that dangle stuff either:laugh:

Yeaah , no we compare Borgstrom with Stamkos, Datsyuk and Tavares 3 Hall of Famers:laugh:! 3 totally different players also! One still plays in college!
 
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Castle8130

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May 9, 2017
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Yeaah , no we compare Borgstrom with Stamkos, Datsyuk and Tavares 3 Hall of Famers:laugh:! 3 totally different players also! One still plays in college!
...yeahh, he also has so many other qualities about him that make him good.
 
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Skinnyjimmy08

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Mar 30, 2012
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its bizzare seeing such a unknown prospect on a quiet fan based team getting so much crap here... geeze youd think this was a prospect on a team with extremely outspoken fan base and people wanna crush their dreams lol

I don't see how people cant be excited for this kid after seeing how hes doing this season
 

kabidjan18

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Doesnt qoute your novel!:laugh:
Ohhhh you got me good didn't you! So childish smh

The problem with blind fans of a certain prospect is that they take offence f someone has ? about that player!
There's a forum in the Polls section where I have a discussion with another guy who did not have as positive an outlook on Borgstrom. Only it was civil. Why? Because he had logical and cogent positions. I tend to be offended by illogical arguments.

You also take away friendly games there players fight for a spot as nothing. Good players always comes out hard in any game! Compare players who went straght from juniors to Nhl or Ahl with a guy who plays college hockey, is quite stupid i must say. A first rounder who plays his 2 year in College isnt having a normal path to be a ev. Nhl player.
Nice cliches. Seems like maxims appeal to you most.

Please, help me remember where Jack Eichel played before the NHL. Oh, and are you aware that the NCAA is inarguably a higher level of play than juniors? In the meantime, I would like you to meet some of my friends. Zach Werenski, Brock Boeser, Alex Tuch, Nick Schmaltz, or no no, let's go this route. Johnny Gaudreau, Jaden Schwartz, Anders Lee, Shayne Gostisbehere, Brock Nelson, Torey Krug, Blake Wheeler, James Van Reimsdyk, TJ Oshie, David Backes, Zach Parise, Joe Pavelski, Derek Stepan, Jack Johnson, Matt Niskanen, Ryan McDonagh, no no, let's go back to newer guys, Jake Guentzel, Andrew Copp, Will Butcher, JT Compher, Charlie McAvoy, Luke Kunin. A "normal" path to the NHL, what even is that? People can come from dozens of different channels. But what is for sure, there are many NHL stars who spent multiple years in the NCAA, there are many who spent years in juniors as well. Your ignorance does not excuse your misinformation.

Tired of bias posts who doesnt see any problem with a first rounder still in college!
How is your being misinformed and illogical better than us being biased? You referred to the idea that I might be Finnish earlier, I'm not. But even let's just say I have a bias in favor of him. He worked for me once in a department store and we became friends over beers (not true, but we'll suppose). How is that worse than you spouting off incoherent and misguided arguments? You know that the vast majority of first rounders from his draft who went the NCAA route are still in the NCAA? A few left early and ironically some those individuals have been struggling. Luke Kunin spent two years, who knows if he would have benefited from a third but he certainly isn't what was expected of him going into the season. Neither has Jost or Keller lived up to expectations. Do you also have problems with Dante Fabbro? Logan Brown? Dennis Cholowski? Riley Tufte? Trent Frederic? Do you have issues with Andrew Peeke? Wade Allison? Dylan Gambrell? And even if you dislike one of those, is it because they're still in the NCAA? Probably not, or you'd have to dislike all of them and particularly for that reason.

Borgstrom is a non-traditional prospect, sure, I can buy that. But all the problems you are listing are characteristic to traditional routes. If he's a prospect going a traditional route, then what's your problem again?
 

FinlandPanther

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its bizzare seeing such a unknown prospect on a quiet fan based team getting so much crap here... geeze youd think this was a prospect on a team with extremely outspoken fan base and people wanna crush their dreams lol

I don't see how people cant be excited for this kid after seeing how hes doing this season
There will always be people wanting to hate on prospects. It’s just how it is.
 

McClelland

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Aug 2, 2011
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No he played in the OHL where it’s easier to put up points. You’re on fire today of being wrong!

Wrong LOL! Where did i say Stamkos didnt played at Ohl? He played juniors at 16 to 18 years old and also entered Nhl at 18. Borgstrom plays collegehockey his 21 th year!

Borgstrom are a longshot draft because ifnt he break into the top 6 there are no use for him! But if he turns up, it will be a gold mine!

Oneway offensive guys who cant grind must produce alot ! He wasnt drafted his first eligble year, thats pretty rare for guys with his skills and size! He is a average skater if comparing to Nhl standards, can be that! Good Skating is a must in todays Nhl!
 

letsgrowcactus

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Jan 21, 2017
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Wrong LOL! Where did i say Stamkos didnt played at Ohl? He played juniors at 16 to 18 years old and also entered Nhl at 18. Borgstrom plays collegehockey his 21 th year!

Borgstrom are a longshot draft because ifnt he break into the top 6 there are no use for him! But if he turns up, it will be a gold mine!

Oneway offensive guys who cant grind must produce alot ! He wasnt drafted his first eligble year, thats pretty rare for guys with his skills and size! He is a average skater if comparing to Nhl standards, can be that! Good Skating is a must in todays Nhl!
I must be a masochist for getting involved in this conversation, but:
The reason why Borgstrom wasn't drafted in 2015 was because he grew 9 inches from September 2014 to Sept.2015. That gave him very bad back pains and also screwed up his skating. Once he stopped growing and began settling into his body, everything else started falling in place.
That's also a part of why he's in college - because he's still maturing physically.
 
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Artorius Horus T

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Nov 12, 2014
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I just hope he doesn't end up as Krys Kolanos

Krys Kolanos
- C, 6 foot 3, 2 years NCAA, 2000 1st round pick (19th overall,Coyotes)
- similar NCAA stats,similar type of player,also got hype back in the day,
although was way more touted than Borgström, similarities to team that drafted Borgström

Had a relatively decent rookie season; 11+11=22 in 57 games 2001-2002
unfortunately,during that rookie season he was elbowed to the head by one Vaclav Varada
and left unconscious,he suffered from PCS rest of the rookie season and the next season.

2003 he represented team Canada at the 2003 worlds,he won gold,scored only 1 assist though.

2003-2004 season was his last season where he played decent amount of games in the NHL
41, scored 4 goals, 6 assists,also played 32 in the AHL,scored 21 points.

2004 -> 2013 he mostly played in the AHL,couple of stints in Europe (1 lock out)
- after 2013 he left to play in Europe to KHL,played only 9 games,for 2 different teams
in 2 seasons.

Retired in 2015,but came back for the next season,Germany tier-2, Italy tier-1,AlpsHL
then he went to play to Poland for this season and yesterday he was signed by
a Italy based AlpsHL team.

---

His "NHL career highlight" was scoring a shootout goal against Patrick Roy, March 31st 2002
which was quite memorable due to Patrick Roy's crazy reaction to it,from which
Patrick got 10 min unsportsman like misconduct and game misconduct penalty.
 

Quethas

Registered User
Jan 19, 2010
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Tampere
Comparing Borgström to pick from 2000 is not really relevant comparison. A lot has happened after it.

I mean in June, Kolanos's pick would be allowed to buy beer in Finland.
 

TheImpatientPanther

Registered User
Jan 17, 2013
28,540
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Ontario, Canada
Does he make Florida next year ?

Ya the hope is he can fit into the top 6 as a LW or trying him as a 3C. I'd prefer him on the wing with Barkov or Trocheck who could make up for his defensive mistakes. The kid has some serious talent, just needs to continue to get stronger while working on his 200ft game.

Borgstrom/Huberdeau - Barkov - Dadonov
Huberdeau/Borgstrom - Trocheck - Malgin
Mamin - McCann - Bjugstad
McGinn - Mack/AHLer - Hawryluk/Sceviour

Something like that assuming no trades, UFA signings and Tippett and Mascherin not making the team.
 

DatDude44

Hmmmm?
Feb 23, 2012
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Ohhhh you got me good didn't you! So childish smh

There's a forum in the Polls section where I have a discussion with another guy who did not have as positive an outlook on Borgstrom. Only it was civil. Why? Because he had logical and cogent positions. I tend to be offended by illogical arguments.


Nice cliches. Seems like maxims appeal to you most.

Please, help me remember where Jack Eichel played before the NHL. Oh, and are you aware that the NCAA is inarguably a higher level of play than juniors? In the meantime, I would like you to meet some of my friends. Zach Werenski, Brock Boeser, Alex Tuch, Nick Schmaltz, or no no, let's go this route. Johnny Gaudreau, Jaden Schwartz, Anders Lee, Shayne Gostisbehere, Brock Nelson, Torey Krug, Blake Wheeler, James Van Reimsdyk, TJ Oshie, David Backes, Zach Parise, Joe Pavelski, Derek Stepan, Jack Johnson, Matt Niskanen, Ryan McDonagh, no no, let's go back to newer guys, Jake Guentzel, Andrew Copp, Will Butcher, JT Compher, Charlie McAvoy, Luke Kunin. A "normal" path to the NHL, what even is that? People can come from dozens of different channels. But what is for sure, there are many NHL stars who spent multiple years in the NCAA, there are many who spent years in juniors as well. Your ignorance does not excuse your misinformation.


How is your being misinformed and illogical better than us being biased? You referred to the idea that I might be Finnish earlier, I'm not. But even let's just say I have a bias in favor of him. He worked for me once in a department store and we became friends over beers (not true, but we'll suppose). How is that worse than you spouting off incoherent and misguided arguments? You know that the vast majority of first rounders from his draft who went the NCAA route are still in the NCAA? A few left early and ironically some those individuals have been struggling. Luke Kunin spent two years, who knows if he would have benefited from a third but he certainly isn't what was expected of him going into the season. Neither has Jost or Keller lived up to expectations. Do you also have problems with Dante Fabbro? Logan Brown? Dennis Cholowski? Riley Tufte? Trent Frederic? Do you have issues with Andrew Peeke? Wade Allison? Dylan Gambrell? And even if you dislike one of those, is it because they're still in the NCAA? Probably not, or you'd have to dislike all of them and particularly for that reason.

Borgstrom is a non-traditional prospect, sure, I can buy that. But all the problems you are listing are characteristic to traditional routes. If he's a prospect going a traditional route, then what's your problem again?

CLAYTON KELLER :)
 

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