Burns and Karlsson VS Tavares and Matthews

[flamesforcup]

if you don't think Karlsson is tasked with creating offense, or Matthews isn't tasked with defensive responsibilities, you are mistaken. The argument is that an elite player can't have a bad playoff series, and that is ridiculous. don't defend it

Defensemen peak later. Whereas forwards like Matthews peak early and he has shown he cant carry a team. Good player but more of a passenger not a line driver. He plays like a bit faster version of Laine with more size and a good shot thats it.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

if you don't think Karlsson is tasked with creating offense, or Matthews isn't tasked with defensive responsibilities, you are mistaken. The argument is that an elite player can't have a bad playoff series, and that is ridiculous. don't defend it

A defensmans primary assignment is to defend and offensemans primary assignment is to create offense. This is not hard. Yes defenseman put up points as well but some don't and are still considered good. Also the position karlsson plays is so much more complicated and difficult to prefect and to think he was ppg in his first playoff series as a rookie is mind blowing. You probably shouldn't comment on a series you didn't even watch.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

A defensmans primary assignment is to defend and offensemans primary assignment is to create offense. This is not hard. Yes defenseman put up points as well but some don't and are still considered good. Also the position karlsson plays is so much more complicated and difficult to prefect and to think he was ppg in his first playoff series as a rookie is mind blowing. You probably shouldn't comment on a series you didn't even watch.

feel free to not quote me if you want to add your own irrelevant commentary, thanks

 

[authentic]

I think we know the answer.

 

[Gavy]

Lol shows just how knowledgeable hfboards is

 

[thadd]

OMG the luls.

Karlsson >>>>>>>>Tavares>>Burns>/=Matthews....gotta be my favorite post.


AND THIS IS JUST IN THE FIRST FEW PAGES!?

What a great read.

Karlson has been a legit generational d-man for years. I don't get the punchline here.

 

[Yamazaki]

Lmfao hfboards is full of petty slack jawed yokels

 

[Drytoast]

Karlson has been a legit generational d-man for years. I don't get the punchline here.

Its 2018 now. Hes not the same player.

 

[thadd]

Its 2018 now. Hes not the same player.

He's over 0.5PPG on a new team that has other weapons on the blueline.
If he scores under 60 points next season I'll suspect what you're saying is true.
He's only 28 and is supposed to be in his prime.
Telling me that it's 2018 now is the same as some smuck coming around and telling you that Tavares isn't going to score 50 points next year because he's the same age as Karlsson.
Get real.

 

[Drytoast]

He's over 0.5PPG on a new team that has other weapons on the blueline.
If he scores under 60 points next season I'll suspect what you're saying is true.
He's only 28 and is supposed to be in his prime.
Telling me that it's 2018 now is the same as some smuck coming around and telling you that Tavares isn't going to score 50 points next year because he's the same age as Karlsson.
Get real.

Tavares didn't have half his ankle removed. I believe you will see his number start to decline from here on out.

 

[LeafGrief]

OMG the luls.

Karlsson >>>>>>>>Tavares>>Burns>/=Matthews....gotta be my favorite post.


AND THIS IS JUST IN THE FIRST FEW PAGES!?

What a great read.

I do find it kind of funny that a die hard Leafs homer like me is getting called out for voting for the Leafs. Saying that Karlsson could have a great year is not an omegalul take and I'll stand by that.

No, he's not. Matthews is easily the better player. Get over it.

Hell yeah brother. Thrilled to agree 110%.

I was just thinking about this poll last night. Should be a good re-read.

 

[BAM]

Karlson has been a legit generational d-man for years. I don't get the punchline here.

This season he hasn't looked better than Jake Gardiner let alone generational d-man. Players age, they leave their prime. Karlsson is still a 1D when fully healthy but I don't take him over Matthews at all. Matthews owns Karlsson head to head. I don't even think I'd take Karlsson over Tavares with how consistent and great defensively he is as a franchise C. He's also won a huge amount of 1C matchups during the Leafs win streak with Matthews out (dominated Crosby, Kopitar, Getzlaf in that stretch)

 

[glucker]

Defensemen peak later. Whereas forwards like Matthews peak early and he has shown he cant carry a team. Good player but more of a passenger not a line driver. He plays like a bit faster version of Laine with more size and a good shot thats it.

This is amazing satire. Really shows how hard can blind people.

 

[glucker]

Someone posted Tavares and Matthews will outscore Karlsson and Burns by 60 points, and I asked which defenseman is going to miss half the season to make that happen, and you're trying to call that opinion out when currently, the Toronto duo has only an 8 point lead almost 1/3 of the way through the season? Any why, because of one game the Leafs won?
Yea, I'm pretty sure your terrible take (one of many) is more "HF gonna HF" than anything else

Not sure why you quoted me, Karlsson has had a much slower start than anyone would've imagined and theyre only 8 points apart total right now. I doubt Matthews stays on the pace he is and same with Karlsson. Like I said it would take an injury to make this close but I'm not surprised Matthews has already missed time.

8 points and you think its that funny? 2 superstar centermen picked 1st overall are being compared to 2 dmen and theyre only 8 points ahead right now with over 30% of the season gone. If Karlsson heats up and Matthews shoulder goes a little wonky again I wonder if youll still be laughing this hard. Like I said, its not likely to happen but with an injury here or there I wouldnt be that surprised either

If Karlsson had played the start of this season at a 60 point pace (which is conservative for him) they would only be 4 points apart.

It’s amazkng you guys can post stuff like this without acknowledging that Matthews has missed half the season so far.

I especially like the point about how if Karlsson scored more, there would be a smaller gap. Brilliant stuff.

 

[bobholly39]

I think we know the answer.

Really?

I'm sorry but - absolutely no chance. It's only been 25 games or so. Tons of games left, and playoffs (if we include those).

Burns is PPG. Karlsson has had some slow starts in the past and come back roaring.

The Leafs duo looks great so far - but it's by no means even close to being done. By end of season it's extremely plausible that the San Jose duo is seen as having had easily a better season.

 

[razkaz]

What I find amusing is everyone throwing out the excuse that Karlsson is in a new system and needs time to adjust. Do these same people know how long Tavares has been a Leafs?

Season isn't over but let us revisit this in April and see how close/far they are

 

[newfy]

It’s amazkng you guys can post stuff like this without acknowledging that Matthews has missed half the season so far.

I especially like the point about how if Karlsson scored more, there would be a smaller gap. Brilliant stuff.

Can you read? In my post that got quoted in the first place I literally said it would take an injury to Matthews or Tavares to happen. I never once said if they all play 82 games that Burns and Karlsson would do it. So where did I not acknowledge that hes missed half the season so far? I literally said thats the only way it could happen.

And the point about how if Karlsson scored more? Really, you expect people to feel dumb about thinking Karlsson would score at ~45 point pace instead of his usual 75 point pace off the hop? Given Matthews has already been hurt (which I said wouldnt surprise me) my post is looking pretty correct in the first place. If theres injuries theyll be close because these 2 D are ridiculously productive and Matthews is looking injury prone.

 

[glucker]

Can you read? In my post that got quoted in the first place I literally said it would take an injury to Matthews or Tavares to happen. I never once said if they all play 82 games that Burns and Karlsson would do it. So where did I not acknowledge that hes missed half the season so far? I literally said thats the only way it could happen.

And the point about how if Karlsson scored more? Really, you expect people to feel dumb about thinking Karlsson would score at ~45 point pace instead of his usual 75 point pace off the hop? Given Matthews has already been hurt (which I said wouldnt surprise me) my post is looking pretty correct in the first place. If theres injuries theyll be close because these 2 D are ridiculously productive and Matthews is looking injury prone.

you said you wouldn't be surprised if they were over JT and AM with an injury, intitially... not that it'd be close if there was injury... implying that you expect it to be close if everyone is healthy, which it quite clearly isn't.

You're also talking about a 8 point difference a quarter of the way through the season, with the most productive player missing half that time. Project that out over the course of the season, and that's a 32 point difference, again, assuming Matthews misses half the remaining time. Since there's nothing to suggest he's only going to play a 40 game season, it's really not looking close. You're just using gross numbers to try and make your point look better.

JT and AM are clearly the better offensive producers here, with less ice time... and they're probably the better defensive players as well. This is and always has been an absolutely ridiculous poll.

 

[newfy]

you said you wouldn't be surprised if they were over JT and AM with an injury, intitially... not that it'd be close if there was injury... implying that you expect it to be close if everyone is healthy, which it quite clearly isn't.

You're also talking about a 8 point difference a quarter of the way through the season, with the most productive player missing half that time. Project that out over the course of the season, and that's a 32 point difference, again, assuming Matthews misses half the remaining time. Since there's nothing to suggest he's only going to play a 40 game season, it's really not looking close. You're just using gross numbers to try and make your point look better.

JT and AM are clearly the better offensive producers here, with less ice time... and they're probably the better defensive players as well. This is and always has been an absolutely ridiculous poll.

Once again, go read the post, I didnt say I would expect it to happen with an injury. I said it wouldnt surprise me if there was an injury involved that they could do it, but I never once said I expect them to be ahead even if there was an injury. I never said if Matthews gets hurt |Karlsson and Burns will win this. But I definitely wouldnt be shocked if it happened either.

Some people have such a victim complex its hilarious, lets put it this way without teams involved here. You have two 90 point centers and two 75-80 point dmen. One of those centers misses 15-20 games? Would it surprise you if the dmen tandem ended up with more points? It wouldnt surprise me but I also wouldnt bet my house on it either because I think it could go either way.

And as for your pace point, like you said its still early, the final points make it looklike a larger gap than it likely will be. One guy could go out and have a 3 point night and the pace is changed by quite a bit. Right now the difference between a 60 point season and a 45 point season is 4 points. We'll see what happens but who do you expect is more likely to keep up their current production? Is Matthews more likely to score 65-70 goals this year or is Karlsson more likely to end up with 65 or 70 points?

 

[glucker]

I don’t see Matthews getting 70 goals, but I don’t expect Karlsson to get 65 points either.

Matthews has 56 games left to play, and already had 19 points under his belt. A 40+ goal, 80+ point season wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[authentic]

Really?

I'm sorry but - absolutely no chance. It's only been 25 games or so. Tons of games left, and playoffs (if we include those).

Burns is PPG. Karlsson has had some slow starts in the past and come back roaring.

The Leafs duo looks great so far - but it's by no means even close to being done. By end of season it's extremely plausible that the San Jose duo is seen as having had easily a better season.

I would not bet on it.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

No, he's not. Matthews is easily the better player. Get over it.

Until Matthews puts up a playoff performance close to EK, he's not better.

 

[34]

No, he's not. Matthews is easily the better player. Get over it.

Matthews is the best player in this poll, and it not even debatable.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Matthews is the best player in this poll, and it not even debatable.

Oh but it is and I'm not even a fan of Karlsson.

 

[34]

Oh but it is and I'm not even a fan of Karlsson.

nah man. lol