Burlington Group Approached NHL for possible 2nd GTA/S.O. Franchise

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Wasn't there a major fire at one of their meat plants recently? ... other than that, and occasionally driving past their property at Appleby (?) and the QEW, I can't say I've heard of them.

My guess is that they probably don't have the cash on their own and would probably need at least one or two very wealthy partners to make this happen.

Also, even if the plan is to build the arena near a GO station, Burlington is far from an ideal place for an NHL arena. Like most highways in the GTA, the QEW is a mess during rush hours, and I can't see the business crowd (needed for suite sales) making the trip from Toronto or Mississauga.

Hershey Centre (Missisauga) already has Raptors 905 as its prime tenant, hence the 905 brand

 

[Killion]

Wasn't there a major fire at one of their meat plants recently? ... other than that, and occasionally driving past their property at Appleby (?) and the QEW, I can't say I've heard of them.

My guess is that they probably don't have the cash on their own and would probably need at least one or two very wealthy partners to make this happen.

Also, even if the plan is to build the arena near a GO station, Burlington is far from an ideal place for an NHL arena. Like most highways in the GTA, the QEW is a mess during rush hours, and I can't see the business crowd (needed for suite sales) making the trip from Toronto or Mississauga.

Ya I think thats where their Head Office & one one of their packaging plants is and yes..... a recent fire on the heels of their failing an inspection by the CFIA ..... which I'm sure was just coincidental..... like the fire before that one, building in Hamilton I believe, reno's fell short of building code & work ordered halted... shortly thereafter fire broke out destroying most of it but hey, these things happen right? Entirely coincidental..... just like the time before that..... and the time..... Man. Some of these electricians htp... careless smokers... So who knows. Could be Moon Shot Artists sitting on land they think the ideal location for an arena as have others in & around the city over the years... including Downsview, Woodbine, Vaughan, Kitchener/Waterloo & most recently Markham...

 

[Bjorn Le]

I don't think there's anyway they could afford a team without significant secondary investors. For one, it's crickets when you try to find anything about a proposed arena in Burlington (owning the land is a very small part). Two, as others have said, the expansion fee is going to be gigantic. Discussions is one thing, but this is just too out there. It'll fall apart just like the Vaughn and Markham proposals did.

 

[Advanced stats]

you're forgetting Buffalo and Jeremy Jacobs here, MG

Can Buffalo really claim anything west of ~grimsby?

I'd be shocked if there's a single Buffalo fan in the area

 

[No Fun Shogun]

"In talks," huh?

If it's anything more than the NHL saying, "Oh, that's nice, do you have $750+ million on hand and an arena built yet?," I'd be surprised.

 

[garbageteam]

Less plausible than the Nordiques returning, IMO. A decade away at the very best.

 

[gstommylee]

"In talks," huh?

If it's anything more than the NHL saying, "Oh, that's nice, do you have $750+ million on hand and an arena built yet?," I'd be surprised.

I think its going to cost more than 750m for a 2nd toronto team.

 

[JMROWE]

If you are to build a new arena in the Burlington area it would be ideal location but it would also be an expensive one plus you will have to knock something down to build the arena because there next to no space to build an arena east of Hamilton while the greater Hamilton area has a lot land all set for development & chances are that the city will give them land for pretty much nothing since city has a mayor & city council that will bend over backwards to get an NHL. team here & can get arena built for around 350-400 million dollars which is pretty cheap as far as NHL. arenas goes .

There is another option I call it the Seattle option & that is spend the 250 million to renovate FirstOntario Center since it is already in a ideal location in downtown Hamilton close to shops hotels & plenty of parking .

In this mans opinion a 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario is at least between 5-15 years away closer to 15 if you ask me because by then hopefully Jeremy Jacobs is DEAD & Hamilton area will be over a million people that the NHL. can not afford to ignore this market anymore plus I don't think it will be expansion team it most likely be a relocated Coyotes , Hurricanes , Panthers franchise .

 

[Bjorn Le]

It took till the second page to get a JMROWE Hamilton post. We’re making progress.

 

[Jetster231]

Gonna be a 1.5 billion dollar investment before any games are played. You need big money players willing to take at least a 1.5 billion dollar hit.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Toronto has a better shot at an NFL team at this point.

 

[JMROWE]

It took till the second page to get a JMROWE Hamilton post. We’re making progress.

It was not a Hamilton post if you read I said Burlington or Aldershot will be an ideal place to put a REGIONAL team for the area close to Hamilton far enough away from Buffalo & far enough away from Toronto not to be called Toronto but be called Ontario it would just cost more to build in Burlington because you would have to knock something down to build an arena not mention it would cost about 100 million dollars more to build in Burlington than say Hamilton area which would cost about 350 -400 million where is in Burlington it would cost about 5oo million .

I think a lot of people in Hamilton & surrounding area could live with an arena being built in Burlington for an NHL. team as long it is not called or linked to Toronto & is considered a regional linked to no one city & is called ONTARIO .

 

[Bookie21]

No news here really. Southern Ontario has been rumored to be getting a team since Copps Coliseum was built in 1985. It'll cost 2 billion to set-u shop. There would have been an application filled out from southern Ontario 4 years ago when they opened up the bidding process

 

[GuelphStormer]

... it would just cost more to build in Burlington because you would have to knock something down to build an arena not mention it would cost about 100 million dollars more to build in Burlington than say Hamilton area which would cost about 350 -400 million where is in Burlington it would cost about 5oo million .

your assumptions and numbers are puzzling, JM. there's plenty of available land in burlington, including hundreds of undeveloped acres within close proximity to Aldershot GO (granted, known Paletta land in Burlington is close to Appleby GO, not Aldershot). i think you are also underestimating the cost of new arena construction.

let's all also not ignore a few big picture things ... ACC is now 20 years old ... large public investments in commuter transit along the western GO lakeshore (ie., toronto to niagara) continue to occur ... signals continue to suggest that the Bell/Rogers marriage inside and outside MLSE remains problematic ... the land under Copps is worth more now without the arena ... other interested, wealthy parties exist ...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It was not a Hamilton post if you read I said Burlington or Aldershot will be an ideal place to put a REGIONAL team for the area close to Hamilton far enough away from Buffalo & far enough away from Toronto not to be called Toronto but be called Ontario it would just cost more to build in Burlington because you would have to knock something down to build an arena not mention it would cost about 100 million dollars more to build in Burlington than say Hamilton area which would cost about 350 -400 million where is in Burlington it would cost about 5oo million .

I think a lot of people in Hamilton & surrounding area could live with an arena being built in Burlington for an NHL. team as long it is not called or linked to Toronto & is considered a regional linked to no one city & is called ONTARIO .

Hershey Centre in Missisauga says hello

 

[End on a Hinote]

Not sold. Still think it's going to be Quebec through relocation after Seattle gets their team.

I don't think the NHL is going to add more than 32 teams and I can't see a second team moving to eastern Canada along with QC. Then again, could the Sens move a few hours west within the same province?

Struggling US team to Quebec, Senators to GTA?

Or no 2nd GTA team and just Senators to Quebec?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Not sold. Still think it's going to be Quebec through relocation after Seattle gets their team.

I don't think the NHL is going to add more than 32 teams and I can't see a second team moving to eastern Canada along with QC. Then again, could the Sens move a few hours west within the same province?

Struggling US team to Quebec, Senators to GTA?

Or no 2nd GTA team and just Senators to Quebec?

2nd depends on how fast LeBreton Flats gets developed and will the Senators be forced to be transferred from Melnyk despite his objections to the contrary.

 

[End on a Hinote]

2nd depends on how fast LeBreton Flats gets developed and will the Senators be forced to be transferred from Melnyk despite his objections to the contrary.

Honestly, I think at the end of the day Ottawa (and Calgary) will both end up with new arenas in their respective cities. The "build a new arena or else you are gone" threat has been such an empty one ever since the Penguins went through it 13 years ago. Since then you've had them, NYI, and Edmonton being constantly threatened with relocation for several years before they all got their arenas.

But yeah, they have been saying a second GTA team for so long and have never really had anything to show for it. And with the price of NHL expansion teams increasing by the year, as well as territorial rights issues, I dont think it's going to happen IMO.

 

[Bookie21]

I think the last indemnification fee paid in the league was the Ducks to the Kings to the tune of $25 million, which was equal to half of the expansion fee. $50 million was the going rate for expansion teams at that time. So that is the latest reference point to use for indemnification fees. If Toronto 2 expansion fee is 1 billion CDN, gotta think Buffalo and The Leafs would each be adamant on getting $500 million each in indemnification fees.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I don't think there's anyway they could afford a team without significant secondary investors. For one, it's crickets when you try to find anything about a proposed arena in Burlington (owning the land is a very small part). Two, as others have said, the expansion fee is going to be gigantic. Discussions is one thing, but this is just too out there. It'll fall apart just like the Vaughn and Markham proposals did.

Probably would involve some kind of Bell-Rogers arrangement where one of them drops their stake in the Leafs and takes this new club instead.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Not sold. Still think it's going to be Quebec through relocation after Seattle gets their team.

I don't think the NHL is going to add more than 32 teams and I can't see a second team moving to eastern Canada along with QC. Then again, could the Sens move a few hours west within the same province?

Struggling US team to Quebec, Senators to GTA?

Or no 2nd GTA team and just Senators to Quebec?

Houston, Portland and others are still out there. Unless Calgary moves to Houston...

 

[End on a Hinote]

Unless Calgary moves to Houston...

Won't happen. I'm positive without a doubt the Flames won't be leaving southern Alberta. They will definitely get their arena.

 

[GuelphStormer]

... not to put too fine a point on this but even conservatively establishing "Burlington" as the bottom boundary closest to Buffalo (ie., the northern span of the Skyway), anything built anywhere within the city limits of Burlington will be outside of the 50 mile territory of Buffalo.

The Buffalo Sabres will not be entitled to any territorial fee if a franchise is located in Burlington. None.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

View attachment 113801

... not to put too fine a point on this but even conservatively establishing "Burlington" as the bottom boundary closest to Buffalo (ie., the northern span of the Skyway), anything built anywhere within the city limits of Burlington will be outside of the 50 mile territory of Buffalo.

The Buffalo Sabres will not be entitled to any territorial fee if a franchise is located in Burlington. None.

again, Missisauga says hello, GS, YOU do realize MLSE owns another team besides the Raptors, and where do they play, not Burlington.

 

[GuelphStormer]

again, Missisauga says hello, GS, YOU do realize MLSE owns another team besides the Raptors, and where do they play, not Burlington.

please try to read what people write here ... I said Buffalo cannot claim territorial rights over a franchise located in Burlington. of course Burlington is within Leafs territory (do you not see the big green circle?)

ps, i think im more familiar with mlse and it owners present and past than most here.