Post-Game Talk: Buffed - Jets 5 Sharks 4 (OT)

[Guerzy]

Maybe I am incorrect, but this is how I view it.

Everything about that unfolding play was routine and textbook. Puck going around boards, defenseman going in to retrieve puck, opposing player applying pressure and closing in on him to finish check.

As the player retrieving the puck (Kulikov) with incoming pressure (Hertl), Kulikov's job first and foremost was preparing for a potential body check and contact, be it minimal or heavy. You can't successfully play that puck if you're going to get hit, it's impossible. You *may* be able to poke check that puck before/during contact depending on how light or heavy the contact is, but you still have to be in position to take a hit for your own damn safety out there. Hertl has a job too for safety reasons, obviously. Kulikov on that play in that position as the first man to the puck HAS to prepare himself for contact, regardless of how Hertl finishes his check (light or heavy).

1. Keep your head on a swivel, perform "quick shoulder check", know where your opponents are. Knowing where the pressure is coming from will help you prepare for potential body check and give you an idea of how you should play the loose puck - It appears Kulikov did this?

2 . Don't get caught in the "danger zone" (2-4 feet from the boards). This will allow you to be positioned well to absorb the impact of contact, be it minimal or heavy.

3. Positioning - Assure your arms and hands are up mid-section level and you are (have already) turned your body so your shoulders will hit the boards/glass instead of hour head, face or front portion of your body. This will assure your impact positioning is where it needs to be. This positioning will also allow you to push off of the boards after the check if you are still on your feet, getting yourself back into action/the play quickly.

And then he did this...

4. Took himself OUT of position. He literally undid all of the proper steps and movements he appeared to have taken on that play, turned his head towards the boards and began turning his body too. He went into play the puck mode when he should have been bracing and prepared for contact. No, no, no...

Maybe I am wrong, but from the mere seconds in which Kulikov turned his head and body, I don't believe Hertl can let up given the quickness of the game. And again, IF Kulikov was in proper position, Hertl's hit likely results in no poor effects on Kulikov.

*** To this point Kulikov's # is not even facing an oncoming Hertl, and people expect Hertl to have the time and recognize he needs to let up? He's already over the goal line.

***This is where Kulikov turned, and look how close Hertl is.

Maybe Hertl receives discipline, maybe he doesn't. Maybe Hertl could have slowed up and pulled up, maybe he couldn't have (I don't think so, personally). At the end of the day, in my opinion, Kulikov did some things right and then did some things exceptionally wrong in terms of positioning yourself for any level of contact. Had Kulikov followed proper technique, I don't think Hertl's hit causes any injury and this is just another routine play. I don't think Kulikov was in a vulnerable position until he turned his head/body at the last second, in which I think at that point it was too late and Hertl was committed to finishing the check.

 

[HPsauce]

Maybe I am incorrect, but this is how I view it.

Everything about that unfolding play was routine and textbook. Puck going around boards, defenseman going in to retrieve puck, opposing player applying pressure and closing in on him to finish check. Here is how I see it unfolding.

As the player retrieving the puck (Kulikov) with incoming pressure (Hertl), Kulikov's job first and foremost was preparing for a potential body check and contact, be it minimal or heavy. You can't successfully play that puck if you're going to get hit, it's impossible. You *may* be able to poke check that puck before/during contact depending on how light or heavy the contact is, but you still have to be in position to take a hit for your own damn safety out there. Hertl has a job too for safety reasons, obviously. Kulikov on that play in that position as the first man to the puck HAS to prepare himself for contact, be it minimal or heavy, regardless of how Hertl finishes his check (light or heavy).

1. Keep your head on a swivel, perform "quick shoulder check", know where your opponents are. Knowing where the pressure is coming from will help you prepare for potential body check and give you an idea of how you should play the loose puck - It appears Kulikov did this?

2 . Don't get caught in the "danger zone" (2-4 feet from the boards). This will allow you to be positioned well to absorb the impact of contact, be it minimal or heavy.

3. Positioning - Assure your arms and hands are up mid-section level and you are (have already) turned your body so your shoulders will hit the boards/glass instead of hour head, face or front portion of your body. This will assure your impact positioning is where it needs to be. This positioning will also allow you to push off of the boards after the check if you are still on your feet, getting yourself back into action/the play quickly.

And then he did this...

4. Took himself OUT of position. He literally undid all of the proper steps and movements he appeared to have taken on that play, turned his head towards the boards and began turning his body too. He went into play the puck mode when he should have been bracing and prepared for contact. No, no, no...

Maybe I am wrong, but from the mere seconds in which Kulikov turned his head and body, I don't believe Hertl can let up given the quickness of the game. And again, IF Kulikov was in proper position, Hertl's hit likely results in no poor effects on Kulikov.

Maybe Hertl receives discipline, maybe he doesn't. Maybe Hertl could have slowed up and pulled up, maybe he couldn't have (I don't think so, personally). At the end of the day, in my opinion, Kulikov did some things right and then did some things exceptionally wrong in terms of positioning yourself for any level of contact. Had Kulikov followed proper technique, I don't think Hertl's hit causes any injury and this is just another routine play.

Nice break down.

I agree that both players have a job to do in order to themselves safe.

That being said, the force still comes from Hertl, therefore the regulation of force is on him.

I don't know why Kulikov turned towards the boards that way, he had the puck and could have chipped it on his backhand behind the net. No? Could have braced for the hit by then.

 

[NotCommitted]

Well, IMO that Hertl hit on Kulikov was a bit 50/50 - Kulikov did put himself in a bad position quite late, and in defence of Hertl while he didn't really do anything to avoid hitting him, it also didn't look like he was out to destroy anybody. It seemed like he could've hit him quite a bit harder had he wanted to.

Yet, despite saying earlier it's a bit 50/50, it's also all on Hertl - clearly Hertl has absolutely no intention of playing the puck at any point. You can see him going for the big hit from basically 50 feet away. While I do think hits belong in hockey, I have to admit I'm no big fan of them in the sense I get excited about a big hit or anything. If Kulikov was positioned better, yes it would be a pretty safe hit, but clearly the present rules are against this sort of hitting mindset Hertl shows here - because the rules dictate he needs to be aware of Kulikov's position, and that means Kulikov is free to turn his back on the play any moment he wants to. As a result Hertl should approach the situation with that awareness, meaning he can't just speedtrain into a hit expecting Kulikov will protect himself. Maybe that rule goes against unspoken hockey rules of old, but personally I like hockey which is more dominated by puck movement and skill than physical battles.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Doesn't look good for Kuli playing

 

[Afterburner]

Doesn't look good for Kuli playing

Crap I wonder how long we lose Kuli for

 

[Guerzy]

Nice break down.

I agree that both players have a job to do in order to themselves safe.

That being said, the force still comes from Hertl, therefore the regulation of force is on him.

I don't know why Kulikov turned towards the boards that way, he had the puck and could have chipped it on his backhand behind the net. No? Could have braced for the hit by then.

It is a physical, contact, forceful sport. You have to prepare yourself for that and put yourself in position for it, not turn away from it at the last second. Regardless of who the force comes from, you are taught when you begin body contact to prepare yourself for a check/hit/contact/force in that very scenario Kulikov was in. I'm not trying to pile on Kuli here, I just think all things considered he was in fine position and had he not turned his body when he did, nobody is talking about this and Kulikov likely doesn't even get injured on that play.

In comparison to Enstrom/Sestito, Enstrom was clearly in a vulnerable position a few feet from the boards and you could see Sestito begin to line him up and then demo'd him. The player giving the hit in that scenario HAS to know better. I don't think Kulikov was in a vulnerable position until the very last second, in which at that point Hertl was so damn close to him injury was then inevitable.

But, to each their own, I can respect if someone views it differently than I do.

 

[antiqueslivers]

so I'm assuming there will be no news as to what type of injury? I'm guess asides from the cosmetics probably either concussion symptoms and or being cautious with his back...hertl's arm looks to initiate impact sorta where that opened bench door did back in preseason last year with buffolai.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Crap I wonder how long we lose Kuli for

Day to day with UBI of course

ASB so maybe just one game

 

[Duke749]

Awesome win! So anyone know what Little was jawing with Thornton about? Perhaps the check from behind he threw on Enstrom?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Awesome win! So anyone know what Little was jawing with Thornton about? Perhaps the check from behind he threw on Enstrom?

I'm curious too. Maybe I'll go back and re-watch that part of the game again later

 

[Positive]

I'm gonna side with Kulikov on this one. He's making a hockey play...looks like he's turning to put the puck on his backhand along the boards. He's protecting the puck with his body and knows he'll probably take some contact. Just not this severe. Players turn their backs to their opponents all the time when trying to protect the puck along the boards.

 

[Fastfrde]

For me that hit is 100% on Hertl, from the angles, I cannot for certain say Kulikov saw Hertl, I can say for certain Hertl saw Kulikov's big , blue #5. In today's NHL, and rightfully so, that is an illegal check. If all you can see are the guys numbers as you are coming in, it is your obligation to proceed with some sense of caution if you want to avoid the penalty (or injuring the player!). Checking is meant to separate the man from the puck, so you don't really need to paste someone into the boards. It was a choice by Hertl, choices have consequences. Yes, it is a contact sport, but injury should not be the intent of the contact in the sport.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Hertl didn't have time to do that. They both had the responsibility and Kuli gave up on his own in the last second.

You're kidding, right?

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The receiver of the hit has to bare some responsibility when getting hit.

You can see that kulikov sees Hertl coming toward him and still turns.

The 5 and a game was way more than adequate. I don’t see a suspension coming out of it.

Toby knew Sestito was coming and still turns. So it's Toby's fault that he got his face smashed in from an illegal hit from behind?

 

[Maukkis]

HE.HITS.HIM.RIGHT.IN.THE.NUMBERS.

not sure what you're not getting.
these guys can stop on a dime and deflect a 100 mph slapshot and you're blaming a player for turning his back "last minute"? lol.
also, Hertl's head is down as he delivers the check...yet you don't blame him for not assessing the situation? my lord...

That's what you get when you don't pay attention on the ice.

Since our opinions seem to be very far apart here, I feel like this conversation does not need to continue.

 

[ATLbound]

Awesome win! So anyone know what Little was jawing with Thornton about? Perhaps the check from behind he threw on Enstrom?

I rewatched and it appeared Thornton was the one mad at Little to start the heated argument. I went back to the shift right before the penalty and Little and Thornton collided and Thornton went down hard. And Perreault also may have clipped him when he went by as he was down. I think it was something about that. Becuase on the faceoff to start the Pk you see Thornton skate up and start jawing Little right away for no reason. Then it carried over to after the whistle

 

[Duke749]

I'm curious too. Maybe I'll go back and re-watch that part of the game again later

Can’t recall ever seeing Little that animated. Must have really ticked him off because he’s not the type to show that much emotion. Makes it even greater that he got the last laugh.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I know Kulikov had some injury issues in the past. Do we know if he's had concussions before? (just speculating here)

 

[Duke749]

Toby knew Sestito was coming and still turns. So it's Toby's fault that he got his face smashed in from an illegal hit from behind?

The two hits aren’t really similar at all. That being said, Hertl could have let up a bit. Someone took a run at Morrissey later in the game and on the replay you could see the guy let up just a tad bit.

 

[Maukkis]

Toby knew Sestito was coming and still turns. So it's Toby's fault that he got his face smashed in from an illegal hit from behind?

Did the hit become illegal due to him turning? If so, then yes, it is his fault. If the hitter comes in charging and leaves his feet to hit high, then it is a different story, but if the sole purpose of the hitter is to finish the check legally, then the bulk of the responsibility is on the one being hit. The latter case applies to Hertl and Kulikov.

 

[TannedBum]

You're kidding, right?

Yes, of course. Surprisingly Hertl didn't get suspension.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Can’t recall ever seeing Little that animated. Must have really ticked him off because he’s not the type to show that much emotion. Makes it even greater that he got the last laugh.

We need a lip reader though for the full effect

 

[Aavco Cup]

 

[Weezeric]

Imagine if buff went in on the forecheck like hertl did. He could literally kill people. I don't think that's a good way to play hockey.

 

[Howard Chuck]

That's crappy for Joe. His own team mate fell on him.