Player Discussion: Bryan Little

Discussion in 'Winnipeg Jets' started by HPsauce, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    I think he's a very good player still and is more likely to improve his offensive production from where it is now than to further decline. Just because you and some others blame Little for his entire line struggling doesn't make it true. Saying he lacks offensive skill and vision doesn't make it true and don't expect people to accept it. I can list a number of things Little is still doing well and not just defensively. In fact the only difference in his game at the moment is adding a few more points than he normally does. He played very well with Perrrault and Ehlers but that gets quickly ignored and suddenly the focus becomes 2 games with Wheeler and it being his fault. If you want to continue the beleif that he was the reason for Laine and Ehlers struggling, have at it. It's nothing but 2+2 simple anaysis to me though, not a lot of facts to support it other than him being an easy scapegoat.

    Nobody is squelching opinion, but there is also nothing wrong with calling out an opinion by questioning it's objectivity. Throwing out simple claims that Little is a problem for everyone he plays with and ongoing problem for the Jets is going to be met with some disagreement and if there isn't much to back up the opinion but a rudimentary connecting of the dots, then that might be met with some raised eyebrows.

    I find the descriptions of Little's game to be very simplistic and exagerrated, I'm allowed to say that. Feel free to disagree, in all honesty it holds very little (pun intended) weight with me.
     
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  2. Gm0ney

    Gm0ney Unicorns salient

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    Here's a chart of Little's career p/60:

    upload_2018-3-12_14-38-51.png

    CF/60:
    upload_2018-3-12_14-47-22.png
     
  3. Dayofthedogs

    Dayofthedogs Bettman's hammer

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    I try not to use fantasy trades in my analysis.

    The team that trades away the best player almost always looses the trade. I see no scenario where we don't loose a Wheeler or Little trade in the near term.

    No one is gonna trade you a roster player that's nearly as good as they are so our team immediately gets worse in the short term while we are in a Stanely Cup window.
     
  4. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    I've never claimed he lacks offensive skill and doubt I've even criticised his vision. Think you are again mixing up posts and posters. Why I think he's having such a hard time is that he is quite literally "little". Not super little, but enough to count. His speed isn't good either and he's had enormous problems battling for the puck at the offensive end while not being capable of creating much space. That really is something to worry about when talking about second line center in the NHL. Luckily he is still good at the D-zone and useful that way.

    Didn't I just bring forth the point where he played well with these two? Furthermore the two games only enforce the entire argument, being that Little does indeed struggle at the moment. It is not about playing 2 bad games with Wheelers, but playing below standards almost the entire season, up to the point where only one single line has clicked. This is what we are talking about. Don't make it a witch hunt because it isn't one, nor is it about finding space goats. We are talking about the player, good and bad. If you ignore the bad, how in a good conscience can you talk about all the good things? His two line mates went to an (still) ongoing hot streak immediately after separated from him. If that's not a wake up call, I really don't know what is.

    Please don't make me re-quote what was said. That crossed the line of targeting posters no matter how much you try to deny or wash your hands off it. You are claiming that posters have something against the player, thus they are not objective. This couldn't be further away from the truth. Why would anyone have anything against Little in person? He's not the one deciding what line he's playing in. The man does what he is told to do and nothing more, just like everyone else. There's absolutely no reason to insult or undermine posters who criticise him by trying to make it look personal. At the same time, there is a real reason for concern looking long term when you have a player in the roster making 5 million average for the next 6 more years and you are not quite sure whether that player fits better in the third or second line role.
     
  5. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    Have never even talked about his long term future, I've simply talked about his current play, which is all that is relevant. Everything else you've said I find to be largely inaccurate. He's played well with one line, poorly with another, 2 games with another and one with mixed reviews. The point you seem to be missing is that the blame for all of this being on Little is simplistic.

    I don't see Little the way you do, I don't see the same things other than he is struggling to finish off plays, all of which is not on him. Enourmous problems with puck battles offensively? Spare me.

    As far as others claiming posters are biased, it's not hard to draw that concluson. That does not infer a personal dislike of a player. I think perhaps you're taking this a bit too personally. .
     
  6. Maukkis

    Maukkis PK's Sobbin'

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    I'm assuming that is the part you regard as targeting posters? If so, WTF? That's just not targeting posters, is it?

    Reading through the rest of Ducky's posts, all I see is opinions and commenting on others' opinions; there is nothing that could even remotely be considered attacking posters. If something of that nature had been posted, it would already have been removed by a moderator.

    I don't see how this is a problem.
     
  7. YWGinYYZ

    YWGinYYZ Administrator

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    I'm not arguing at all, actually. Simply stating that one game with Wheeler is an incredibly tiny sample size.

    I see him as a 2nd or 3rd line centre on the Jets going forward, so I'm not sure who you're attributing this "day dreaming" to. It's not that helpful if we're actually trying to have a discussion to toss out statements like that.

    He's trending lower on the points side this year, but not horrifically so. The hyperbole around his season is a bit over the top, IMO. Given that he's always been a bit streaky in terms of scoring, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more out of him before the season ends. In the meantime, we still have a very responsible and strong defensive 2nd / 3rd line center. This is exactly what we need going into the playoffs.
     
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  8. buggs

    buggs nanoo nanoo

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    So true of so much of what is being said around here. Let's go all in on youth, dump the vets, they're past their prime and no use to us now.

    Balance. Lest you become the Oilers of the last ten years. Sure, you'll get a good year in there every so often. But dump Little for Roslovic, a kid who has yet to play center in the NHL? That goodness we don't make the decisions or it would be more draft talk than we're seeing this year.
     
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  9. angrymnky

    angrymnky Registered User

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    The worst totals of his time as a Jet might not be Jokinen horrific but worrying. Improving the team to get a cup might mean moving out good but declining players.
     
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  10. sipowicz

    sipowicz The Original

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    He was? When asked about the line with Copp at C, Laine paused and said uh, well, okay meaning Copp can’t play with us and shouldn’t be!
     
  11. Asiantuntija

    Asiantuntija Laine > Matthews

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    Laine with Copp: 5 games 6+3 = 9

    Did he really said that about Copp? It sounds really strange, because i've never heard Pate saying anything bad about Little or any other teammates.
     
  12. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    Sometimes I just wonder where you come up with everything. Of course hockey isn't all about a player, it's a frigging team sport after all. However you cannot simply ignore almost the entire season of mediocrity and keep trying to convince the audience (or even yourself) that someone isn't having troubles. Having a handful of good games versus large number of not-so-good games tips the scale. That doesn't mean he cannot get better, yet even while hockey is team sports, no one can carry him out of the swamp. Look what Ehlers did then look what Laine did. Little needs to step up as well and he needs to figure it out on his own.

    If you haven't seen him losing puck battles especially at the offensive end more times than not, then I simply have to wonder which games have you exactly seen and which not. He hasn't been able to keep up with the speed and doesn't have the strength to outmuscle the opponent's defenders and lot of potential offence has died along with him this season. Lets not even go to creating space for wingers which should also be one of the main duties of a top six center.

    Ask yourself, why in the world would any Laine, Ehlers or <insert a player> fan would want Little to do bad? There's no gain no matter how you looked at it. If someone is taking this personally that certainly is you. Denying every single flaw that other fans have pointed out while refusing to acknowledge the problems - and not only these, but questioning people's objectivity and integrity shows it quite clearly. Falsifying a prejudiced case against a group isn't helping your cause, that much I can tell.
     
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  13. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    Seriously buddy, give it a rest. You keep saying the same **** over and over again, waiting it for it to be true. It's just a bunch of rhetoric to me.

    I've said Little has struggled to put up points, some of that is on him, some of it isn't. I haven't denied all of his flaws, I just disagree with what a few posters keep trying to sell us what they are. Overall I think he's very low on the something to worry about list for the Jets this season and come playoff time he's going to invaluable. Don't pull the not sure how many games you've seen crap, it's lame.

    I've also never once said anyone is rooting against Little, where do you come up with this? Having a bias does not mean someone is rooting against someone. I've never accused someone of wanting Little to do poorly. Do I question objectivity? Yes I do, I think there are posters who scapegoat Little for issues other players are having. That's my biggest beef, Little's problems are his own, but the degree to which people want to blame him for the struggles of others is absurd, and that includes Laine and Ehlers when they were playing with him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  14. kelsier

    kelsier Registered User

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    What was lame was the attempt to stage and single out some kind of a "hate" group while there never was one. Besides, as I had already pointed out (which you seemingly missed) I seriously doubt people are all too worried about what comes down to Little this season considering the center depth. It's been about the next six years. That has been the main point and will remain as the main concern for the near future, as jumping into the unknown never is a good thing. People like to know what they can expect and right now no one can tell for sure. Anyway, as long as you keep the fingers in the pocket rather than pointing somewhere I'm all good. Everyone wants him to do well and have strong playoffs.
     
  15. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    Hate group? Wow, that's some heavy irony. As someone who was literally called a Laine hater.
     
  16. Say What

    Say What what say you?

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    This I don't understand (re: The bolded). Bryan Little has yet to play a single game on his 'new' contract. Are you suggesting that he hasn't been worth his current 5 year deal?

    As a side note: I vaguely recall many posters bemoaning the Mathieu Perreault deal, last year (the year before the 'new' deal took affect). Seems eerily familiar (and 'again', completely unfounded). In my opinion, the players know when they aren't performing up to 'their' expectations. As professionals, many make the required adjustments. Bryan Little, IMO, has the internal drive, the skill, and the character; to overcome any career adversity- real or otherwise. Time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  17. 10Ducky10

    10Ducky10 Registered User

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    Yet, when they signed the contract you were very happy with it.
     
  18. Jetsfareast

    Jetsfareast #werisetogether

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    2 things

    Granted Little scoring is not up to his standard before. But realisticly its not much off.

    Little is not the go to guy now in terms of offense. Before he was all situational 1st line center. Now he is probably 5th maybe 6th depends in Kyle Connor on which Jets the team rely on to produce offense. Most likely just like enstrom and a little bit on Buff. The vets besides Wheeler have taken on a larger role to be defensive 1st players. Which is very good for the Jets. It shows on the records.

    Sometimes yes its frustrating, and we hope he can contribute more in O but when everything shakes up and game is on the line to protect a lead and the best is shorten in the playoffs.

    Its going to be

    Copp Lowry Little out
    With
    Morrissey and Trouba
    Against the best line in the playoff.

    If the bench is shorten most likely

    Schiefele
    Wheeler
    Stastny
    Laine
    Ehlers
    Lowry
    Perrault
    Little
    Copp

    As top 9
     
  19. JetsFan815

    JetsFan815 Tier 2 fan

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    I have to admit, as much as it hurts to say it I am getting some buyer's remorse over the Little contract.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  20. Halberdier

    Halberdier Registered User

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    Hats off, it is not easy to admit things like that especially when they are negative. I like Little a lot but I don't like his contract as it's too much for a #3 center and too long.

    I'm still hopefull that he will have a bounce back but I don't suppose that he will make a 6 million worth of player.

    Ideally Little could be a great #3 veteran center with significant TOI but more defensive role than #1 and #2 centers. For cap reason his contract is just too expensive for that role.
     
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  21. Fastfrde

    Fastfrde Registered User

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    I usually don't wade into these player discussions, but are we really suggesting his production has completely fell off the map this year? Games 1-20 9 pts, Games 21-40 15 pts, Games 41-60 12 pts, now I agree he is slumping in the current stretch of 10 games, but if he had kept his pace he would have been around 50 pts for the season. That would be right around his average.
     
  22. Ducky10

    Ducky10 President Patrik Laine Fan Club Sponsor

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    His cap hit is 5.2, not 6. So you wouldn't have signed Little to an extension? Not sure what you think 29 year old centres with Little's pedigree sign for, this was a fairly team friendly deal considering the modified NTC in the back half.

    He's 30, a bit early to write him off, he's a hot streak away from being right around what got him that contract.
     
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  23. Halberdier

    Halberdier Registered User

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    His cap hit is 5.3, but his salary for the next two seasons is 6.5 and for the next expected lockout his salary drops to 4.5 for a season and then to 6.0. last two seasons on his contract he is a lot cheaper.

    I'm not convinced Jets is getting 6.5 million worth of a player for the two next seasons, but I really hope I am wrong with this. Bad usage has not only hit Laine and Ehlers this season, it also did hit Little himself so let's see what happens now when Maurice finally got the message.
     
  24. Jetsfareast

    Jetsfareast #werisetogether

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    Little and Wheeler combo.

    Proven solid!!!!
     
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  25. Jetfaninflorida

    Jetfaninflorida Southernmost Jet Fan

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    Nice to see Little with some point production and another solid game.

    If Little was the C covering Sharp on Sharp's goal instead of the shiny new object Stastny, people would be crucifying Little here. The objectivity for some reason has been completely lost when discussing Little.
     
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