Bryan Burke: 'I would not draft Kessel first overall'

[#66]

Since you already have the offense, and more on the way, but blueline leaks nearing Johnstown Flood of 1889 proportions. You want Erik Johnson, trust me.

With the Pens looking to get another high pick I would love to get Johnson. He's very mature and headsy at such a young age. Plus he has a very good upside. WJC stats aside I still like Frolik alot. His puck control, two way game and play along the boards are very impressive in his 3 shifts a game. IMO when all is said and done I think that Staal has a chance to be the best forward coming out of this draft. He's a very good player right now but still very raw. I think of him being a Jeff Carter type with better hands. Not that he's in Malkins class but I think that his upside will be seen more after being drafted, as was the case with Malkin.

As for Kessel, I make no secret that I'm not completely sold on him. That being said he still has the best upside in this draft. Plus RR's right whatever he does he seems to get no credit for. I've seen alot of him over the past two years and I think that last night was one of his best games. His points last night were unimpessive but important. Plus his play away from the puck was great. He showed a willingness to battle, backcheck deep in the defensive zone and go into traffic. Oshie was the best player on the ice last night IMO but Kessel had his best game of the WJC.

 

[Seph]

Shows how much you know. Kessel played quite a bit of PK last year and this year.

Pavel Bure played quite a bit of PK for the Panthers, didn't mean anything regarding his defensive abilities. Not everyone on the PK are necessarily the best defensive forwards on their teams. Sometimes they're the guys with the best chances at a shorty, and sometimes they're just the best players.


Anyway, I don't think Burke's statement is really all the outlandish. It's basically the same as if early in 1993 a GM came out and said they'd take Pronger over Daigle. This, of course, does not meant that Johnson will progress like Pronger did, or that Kessel will be as poor of a team player as Daigle. But had anyone said that at the time, they'd look like a genius in hindsight. And sometimes, you have to take character into account.

 

[PuckFan01]

Whatever excuse you want to use, coaches typically won't put a defensive liability on the ice when they are shorthanded. Guys like Kessel are put out on the PK because their speed and quickness close down the passing lanes faster in their defensive zone and that is a valuable defensive asset. It is still defense whatever reasoning you want to use.

 

[Seph]

Whatever excuse you want to use, coaches typically won't put a defensive liability on the ice when they are shorthanded. Guys like Kessel are put out on the PK because their speed and quickness close down the passing lanes faster in their defensive zone and that is a valuable defensive asset. It is still defense whatever reasoning you want to use.

Doesn't mean they aren't still a defensive liability at even strength. PK is a very specialized defensive situation, and requires different skills for excelling at it than it does to excel at ES defense. Just like scoring on the PP doesn't always mean you can score well at ES, or even how scoring at ES doesn't mean you can score on the PP.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

And Kessel isn't Bure, I'm trying to compare their build, not their skill level, get me?

Jesus Harold christ, I'm not saying either is as skilled as the player's I'm comparing them to, I'm trying to suggest a player their skillset is similair to, not how good they are.

Kessel is a bure-type player. Dynamic scoring threat, fast, great shot.

Toews is an Yzerman-type player. Leader, responsible player. All around talent.

Kessel is playing the PK because they want him on the ice as much as possible, he can be a short handed threat, but he IS NOT a defensive player.

I swear some people just cannot read.

You're the one throwing around comparisons to Yzerman. Kessel at least COULD become another Bure. He has that much raw skill. Yzerman is one of the most skilled players of all-time and to say that someone plays like him also is trying to say that he could one day be like him. Toews is a great prospect, but he really doesn't play like Yzerman. Doesn't have the defense that Yzerman had throughout his career and I really doubt he has even remotely close leadership qualities. Not that he's not a leader, but we're talking a 1 in a million leader like Yzerman.

 

[Lobstertainment]

I agree with him.

I agree with you.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Toews is not Yzerman. Yzerman is a three-time Cup champion, a Conn Smythe winner, a Pearson winner, one of the top 50 players of all-time and one of the top 15 ever at his position. Compairons to him should be reserved for the truly special players. Toews is not. Like I said before, I'm not convince he's any better than a Scott Hartnell or Mike Richards type. I'm a big fan of both those guys, especially Richards, but those aren't the type of guys who take at No. 1, even in a year where there isn't a clear-cut No. 1.

Toews is a born winner. He's a gifted leader. He saves his best for big games. But unless you're a team that's having a down year and has the chance to rebound big-time next year, he's not the type you take No. 1 overall.

For all we know, a guy like Jordan Staal or Bryan Little could wind up being the best player in this year's draft. It's that wide open.

Bingo.

Great post.

 

[Misos Milakos*]

You're the one throwing around comparisons to Yzerman. Kessel at least COULD become another Bure. He has that much raw skill. Yzerman is one of the most skilled players of all-time and to say that someone plays like him also is trying to say that he could one day be like him. Toews is a great prospect, but he really doesn't play like Yzerman. Doesn't have the defense that Yzerman had throughout his career and I really doubt he has even remotely close leadership qualities. Not that he's not a leader, but we're talking a 1 in a million leader like Yzerman.

Yzerman really didn't have the defense that he has now or would go on to have until Scotty Bowman showed up there. Yzerman was never the two way player at Toews age that he is now or would go on to be, he developed into it. Toews is more than capable of developing into one of the better two way players in the league one day. Toews however does not look to have Yzerman offensive abilities, but it remains to be seen still what his offensive upside looks like. Kessel, the one move wonder will need to borrow Bure's book of moves before he is ever the next Bure, as Bure sure had more than one.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

For all we know, a guy like Jordan Staal or Bryan Little could wind up being the best player in this year's draft. It's that wide open.

So true. I see Mats Sundin in this guy. With the off the charts development Staal family curve, I can definately see him dominating next year.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

You're the one throwing around comparisons to Yzerman. Kessel at least COULD become another Bure. He has that much raw skill. Yzerman is one of the most skilled players of all-time and to say that someone plays like him also is trying to say that he could one day be like him. Toews is a great prospect, but he really doesn't play like Yzerman. Doesn't have the defense that Yzerman had throughout his career and I really doubt he has even remotely close leadership qualities. Not that he's not a leader, but we're talking a 1 in a million leader like Yzerman.

True, if you are speaking of the player Yzerman became.

In the long view, it helps to remember that Yzerman was a lot closer to a Kessel-type player than a Toews-type player when he broke into the bigs. He WORKED to become the player we think of today as Stevie Y -- that side of his game wasn't obvious way back in the mid 80s.

It's dangerous to judge Kessel as a two-way player based on this tournament. The rest of the American forward corps (with the exception of Schremp and perhaps Bourque) is composed of nice two-way forwards with good but limited offensive potential. Kessel's focus on offense in this tourney is out of necessity, as he's perhaps the only real offensive standout for the USA (we can talk about Schremp later).

That said, Kessel needs to try something other than that half-baked toe-drag thing he does six times a game.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yzerman really didn't have the defense that he has now or would go on to have until Scotty Bowman showed up there. Yzerman was never the two way player at Toews age that he is now or would go on to be, he developed into it. Toews is more than capable of developing into one of the better two way players in the league one day. Toews however does not look to have Yzerman offensive abilities, but it remains to be seen still what his offensive upside looks like. Kessel, the one move wonder will need to borrow Bure's book of moves before he is ever the next Bure, as Bure sure had more than one.

You're giving Toews WAY too much credit and taking away WAY too much credit from Kessel. This post is a bit ridiculous. Saying that Yzerman didn't have the skills that TOEWS does. Wow.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Saying that Yzerman didn't have the skills that TOEWS does. Wow.

He didn't say that.

I think anyone who remembers as far back as 1984 or so will agree that Toews plays a better defensive game than Yzerman did at the same age.

Does Toews have Yzerman's talent? No, not half of it. For me, that's the point of this discussion. I think with Toews, what you see is what you get. The sky's the limit with Kessel, but the bottom's also much, much lower. Every GM has a different strategy for dealing with this kind of risk.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Burke's comments may come back to bite him...after all, I suppose there is a chance he'll GM the American squad at some point if they are no longer pleased with Don Waddell or whatever. He shouldn't have said what he said for that reason alone. He should have worded it differently...less definitively. It makes for better TV obviously, but you don't want a GM making those kinds of proclamations. I'm sure his scouts weren't too pleased.

Secondly, I really don't know what Toews has done in this tournament to leapfrog ahead of Kessel in the eyes of some. Erik Johnson? Yeah, I can see it. Everybody's looking for mobile right-handed defensemen with huge size and strength. But Toews? Yeah so he's already a complete player at a young age. Ok. And yeah he's more complete than Kessel. So what? Rod Brind'Amour is more complete than Ilya Kovalchuk. Who would you take first in a draft in their prime???

To me, this is becoming a two-horse race...if you need a blueliner, you take Johnson. Otherwise, you take Kessel.

And the thing about these interviews that blow teams away makes me laugh too. If these were potential reality show candidates, then I'd take the better interviewee. Otherwise, give me the better hockey player!

 

[TheZodiac]

Kessel is Numero 1 IMHO, yes he doesn't pass but you can teach someone to pass, you can't teach raw talent.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Burke's comments may come back to bite him...after all, I suppose there is a chance he'll GM the American squad at some point if they are no longer pleased with Don Waddell or whatever. He shouldn't have said what he said for that reason alone. He should have worded it differently...less definitively. It makes for better TV obviously, but you don't want a GM making those kinds of proclamations. I'm sure his scouts weren't too pleased.

Secondly, I really don't know what Toews has done in this tournament to leapfrog ahead of Kessel in the eyes of some. Erik Johnson? Yeah, I can see it. Everybody's looking for mobile right-handed defensemen with huge size and strength. But Toews? Yeah so he's already a complete player at a young age. Ok. And yeah he's more complete than Kessel. So what? Rod Brind'Amour is more complete than Ilya Kovalchuk. Who would you take first in a draft in their prime???

To me, this is becoming a two-horse race...if you need a blueliner, you take Johnson. Otherwise, you take Kessel.

And the thing about these interviews that blow teams away makes me laugh too. If these were potential reality show candidates, then I'd take the better interviewee. Otherwise, give me the better hockey player!

If Kessel holds a grudge against Burke because of that comment, that's more of a poor reflection on Kessel than Burke. What kind of bonehead would pass up on the opportunity to play for his country in the Olys or the Worlds, because the GM said he wouldn't pick him first overall in the draft, six months before a wide-open draft.

With a wide-open draft like this, where there are three guys who could conceivably go first overall and a few others who may prove to be better than any of those three, what's important is where these guys are in five years. First overall this year really is irrelevant. (Of course, I'm sure the talent in this draft will continue to be very close, and in 2011, when we can make our first legitimate evaluation, there'll be several guys mentioned as the best player from the 2006 Draft, sort of like what happens with the 1998 draft. [Although this year's top end is nowhere near 1998 levels.])

The WJC generally isn't the place where you evaluate draft eligible talent. It's a 19-year-old's tournament, and most of these players (except for Kessel, who is 18) are 17. Players stock generally won't fall much, if at all, at the WJC, if they play very poorly (Gaborik probably cost himself first overall with his play at the 2000 WJC), but it can improve with a strong performance. (Witness E. Johnson). Performance on junior or college teams, and the WU18/Junior World Cup are usually given more stock for the draft. If a player doesn't meet expectations at the WJC, that's okay, because he's playing against those two years older. If he flops at the WU18, though, that's a much bigger deal, because he's flopping against those his own age. (Kessel is ineligible for the WU18).

If I'm a team like St. Louis, which has some good young defenceman and a really good defenceman still in his mid-20s (Brewer), I'd take Kessel. He's young, he's dynamic, he's explosive and he's marketable. Plus, let's not forget about St. Loo's limbo ownership situation. If I'm Pittsburgh, Washington or Columbus, and I already have a bevy of talented young forwards, I take Johnson. (And I think Johnson is the best of the bunch right now, but not by much). I normally don't encourage drafting by position needs, I think it's rather short-sighted, but in this year's case, I make an exception, because there isn't that franchise type player available.

If I get No. 1 and I have Toews, Frolik, Mueller, J. Staal, Backstrom or Little ranked No. 1, I trade down, much like Florida did in 2003 with Nathan Horton. Let another team take Kessel or Johnson, get a little something extra for trading down, and still get the player you think is the best one available.

Interviews are critical. It gives you a chance to get to know the player, find out how they cope with different situations, and get a glimpse of their maturity levels. It's just like any other job: you have an interview beforehand. If a player thrives during an interview, it's usually an indicator of maturity, character, an ability to handle life away from home and an ability to think for yourself and think on the fly. Players who generally do poorly in the interviews also struggle to adjust to life in the show.

 

[Misos Milakos*]

You're giving Toews WAY too much credit and taking away WAY too much credit from Kessel. This post is a bit ridiculous. Saying that Yzerman didn't have the skills that TOEWS does. Wow.

Perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend rather than put words in my mouth, you wouldn't see it that way. I'm going to try and put this as simple as possible to you.

Toews doesn't have Yzerman's offensive skills. Hopefully you are following so far.

Yzerman was never the two way player that many know him as today, until Bowman showed up. Before Yzerman won a cup in Detroit he was the subject of much negative criticism and would often have his leadership questioned, he was also involved in heavy rumours to be traded out of Detroit at one time. The player that Yzerman developed into, was not the player he was at Toews age. That doesn't mean he wasn't as good a prospect as Toews is at this age, it simply means he wasn't the Steve Yzerman that people think of today. If he was he would have probably gone ahead of Lafontaine in his draft year. If you can comprehend that, no where does it imply that Yzerman doesn't have the abilities of Toews. You act as if because Toews now isn't what Yzerman was in his PRIME that the comparison is ridiculous, as if Yzerman was always the same player, and never developed into it.

Fact is, players as well rounded as Toews is are quite rare for such a young age, and if Toews did not have this overall package that he does he wouldn't be nearly as highly thought of by scouts for this coming draft. Toews is every bit as good as I say he is.

I will also say that Toews could very well go on to be better offensively than many would think based on what he has showed in this tournament and at this stage of development. His offensive game looks very raw, which is not uncommon for offensive players at his age. Eric Staal was not even invited to Canadas camp at the same age as Toews, and was cut the following year being a year older than Toews is now. Rick Nash put up 3 pts in 7 games at the same age. These players were also more raw than Kessel offensively at the same age, but they certainly would prove to have excellent offensive abilities for the long term. Way too premature to write off Toews offensive abilities.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If Kessel holds a grudge against Burke because of that comment, that's more of a poor reflection on Kessel than Burke. What kind of bonehead would pass up on the opportunity to play for his country in the Olys or the Worlds, because the GM said he wouldn't pick him first overall in the draft, six months before a wide-open draft.

With a wide-open draft like this, where there are three guys who could conceivably go first overall and a few others who may prove to be better than any of those three, what's important is where these guys are in five years. First overall this year really is irrelevant. (Of course, I'm sure the talent in this draft will continue to be very close, and in 2011, when we can make our first legitimate evaluation, there'll be several guys mentioned as the best player from the 2006 Draft, sort of like what happens with the 1998 draft. [Although this year's top end is nowhere near 1998 levels.])

The WJC generally isn't the place where you evaluate draft eligible talent. It's a 19-year-old's tournament, and most of these players (except for Kessel, who is 18) are 17. Players stock generally won't fall much, if at all, at the WJC, if they play very poorly (Gaborik probably cost himself first overall with his play at the 2000 WJC), but it can improve with a strong performance. (Witness E. Johnson). Performance on junior or college teams, and the WU18/Junior World Cup are usually given more stock for the draft. If a player doesn't meet expectations at the WJC, that's okay, because he's playing against those two years older. If he flops at the WU18, though, that's a much bigger deal, because he's flopping against those his own age. (Kessel is ineligible for the WU18).

If I'm a team like St. Louis, which has some good young defenceman and a really good defenceman still in his mid-20s (Brewer), I'd take Kessel. He's young, he's dynamic, he's explosive and he's marketable. Plus, let's not forget about St. Loo's limbo ownership situation. If I'm Pittsburgh, Washington or Columbus, and I already have a bevy of talented young forwards, I take Johnson. (And I think Johnson is the best of the bunch right now, but not by much). I normally don't encourage drafting by position needs, I think it's rather short-sighted, but in this year's case, I make an exception, because there isn't that franchise type player available.

If I get No. 1 and I have Toews, Frolik, Mueller, J. Staal, Backstrom or Little ranked No. 1, I trade down, much like Florida did in 2003 with Nathan Horton. Let another team take Kessel or Johnson, get a little something extra for trading down, and still get the player you think is the best one available.

Interviews are critical. It gives you a chance to get to know the player, find out how they cope with different situations, and get a glimpse of their maturity levels. It's just like any other job: you have an interview beforehand. If a player thrives during an interview, it's usually an indicator of maturity, character, an ability to handle life away from home and an ability to think for yourself and think on the fly. Players who generally do poorly in the interviews also struggle to adjust to life in the show.

A very reasonable and insightful post. Thanks for the read. I can't say I disagree with anything you say here. I should add that as someone who follows the Blues and Larry Pleau, that he would JUMP at the chance to get Kessel. He's more of a USA hockey homer than I am.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Perhaps if you knew how to read and comprehend rather than put words in my mouth, you wouldn't see it that way. I'm going to try and put this as simple as possible to you.

Toews doesn't have Yzerman's offensive skills. Hopefully you are following so far.

Yzerman was never the two way player that many know him as today, until Bowman showed up. Before Yzerman won a cup in Detroit he was the subject of much negative criticism and would often have his leadership questioned, he was also involved in heavy rumours to be traded out of Detroit at one time. The player that Yzerman developed into, was not the player he was at Toews age. That doesn't mean he wasn't as good a prospect as Toews is at this age, it simply means he wasn't the Steve Yzerman that people think of today. If he was he would have probably gone ahead of Lafontaine in his draft year. If you can comprehend that, no where does it imply that Yzerman doesn't have the abilities of Toews. You act as if because Toews now isn't what Yzerman was in his PRIME that the comparison is ridiculous, as if Yzerman was always the same player, and never developed into it.

Fact is, players as well rounded as Toews is are quite rare for such a young age, and if Toews did not have this overall package that he does he wouldn't be nearly as highly thought of by scouts for this coming draft. Toews is every bit as good as I say he is.

I will also say that Toews could very well go on to be better offensively than many would think based on what he has showed in this tournament and at this stage of development. His offensive game looks very raw, which is not uncommon for offensive players at his age. Eric Staal was not even invited to Canadas camp at the same age as Toews, and was cut the following year being a year older than Toews is now. Rick Nash put up 3 pts in 7 games at the same age. These players were also more raw than Kessel offensively at the same age, but they certainly would prove to have excellent offensive abilities for the long term. Way too premature to write off Toews offensive abilities.

Fair points, but shouldn't the same leeway be extended to Kessel? If Toews has latent offensive ability that MIGHT come out later, who's to say Kessel can't LEARN to be a decent or even above average two-way player? Kessel's being pegged as a one-trick pony all of a sudden, and I don't think that's fair.

 

[Misos Milakos*]

Fair points, but shouldn't the same leeway be extended to Kessel? If Toews has latent offensive ability that MIGHT come out later, who's to say Kessel can't LEARN to be a decent or even above average two-way player? Kessel's being pegged as a on-trick pony all of a sudden, and I don't think that's fair.

Actually, to be fair, you are right. that is valid and I was thinking about that about an hour ago when I was driving in my car thinking about this very subject. for all we know it could be Kessel that develops into the next Yzerman, it sure isn't impossible, not sure if I would put much money on it.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

woah woah, lay off the Brian Burke bashing guys. Brian Burke does not like guys with Attidutes like Phil Kessel. Thats not good for the locker room, and teamates shouldnt be fighting. If you look at Kessels style, he has a good point. This guy is a puck hog, without the pavel Bure finishes. Pavel Bure hogged the pucks at times, but this guy is dynamite. This can often piss off your teamates. Plus we all heard, they were fighting, blah blah blah, Skille and Kessel etc etc. Thats not good. ON top of that, KEssel is not that good of a back checker, and like I said, he tends to hog the puck. He still does. I still think hes a dynamic player though.

LIke, Brian Burke said he wont take him.
TSN said, theres not slam dunk for the number 1 spot. Kessel is the number 1 pick right now, but hes no slam dunk like Crosby.
Doug Maclean also said he wouldnt take him number 1.
Thats 2 gms that said no on Kessel. and Brian Burke will probably pick Johnson over Kessel.


So whats with all the flip out about teams not taking him number 1? Geeze guys. This is exactly why TSN said Phil Kessel is not the slam dunk number 1 pick. 2 gms ammited they will not take Him number 1. Chill the hell down. Ive never seen so many people react this way before. Holy cow. It seems liek Phil Kessel going number 1 means alot to people. Unbelievable. To some it seems like,

"he has to go number 1 cause hes american"

grow up guys.

I saw Eric Johnson for the 2nd time yesterday, and for a guy even playing at 85%, (playing tired) i thought he looked awesome, and will not be surprised if he goes number 1.

 

[Daily Special]

Kessel's being pegged as a one-trick pony all of a sudden, and I don't think that's fair.

Jagr's been a "one trick pony" his entire career, look where that's gotten him. People act like it's a bad thing.

 

[langs15]

What kind of moron would tell what he REALLY thinks about someone out side of his organization and not even near draft time???!!!

 

[Hockeycanada*]

What kind of moron would tell what he REALLY thinks about someone out side of his organization and not even near draft time???!!!

Because he won't have the number 1 pick, and Brian Burke is an outspoken man.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Jagr's been a "one trick pony" his entire career, look where that's gotten him. People act like it's a bad thing.

If you mean one of the best offensive players to come along in one trick pony, then you're right.

Jagr is a 6'2'' 230 lb beast with more talent than Kessel will ever dream of having. He's got more than one move. Jagr definately shouldn't have been brought up.

 

[Le Golie]

Jagr's been a "one trick pony" his entire career, look where that's gotten him. People act like it's a bad thing.

This is an awful post. Don't think your opinion is worth much around here to anyone that read that one.