Brian Lee (#9-2005) vs Luc Bourdon (#10-2005)

[SedinFan*]

Lee'll be good offensively. Bourdon will be good all around.

Ottawa had to draft an offensive minded dman because Redden and Chara are both need to be re-signed at seasons end.

It's got nothing to do with 'who's better', it's all about drafting for the team.

I hate this comparing stuff, it makes absolutely no sense. Both teams got dmen they wanted, and quality dmen at that.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Lee'll be good defensively. Bourdon will be good all around.

Ottawa had to draft a defensive minded dman because Redden and Chara are both need to be re-signed at seasons end.

It's got nothing to do with 'who's better', it's all about drafting for the team.

I hate this comparing stuff, it makes absolutely no sense. Both teams got dmen they wanted, and quality dmen at that.

Lee's forte is offense. Besides, most teams don't draft for need, they draft who they feel is the best player available. Ottawa apparently felt that Lee was the best player available to them at 9 and in fact believed him to be the 4th best player in the draft overall.

 

[The Maltais Falcon]

I've never seen either, but based on their respective teams' drafting and developing records, I'm going to have to go with Lee.

 

[SedinFan*]

Lee's forte is offense. Besides, most teams don't draft for need, they draft who they feel is the best player available. Ottawa apparently felt that Lee was the best player available to them at 9 and in fact believed him to be the 4th best player in the draft overall.

I meant offensively, apologies. It's all about teams drafting the best fit for their team. If Ottawa felt Lee was the better selection, fair enough, good on them.

 

[Shane]

You know, people were saying similar things when the Sens drafted Hossa in '97. Nowadays the Sens say: WHAT NOW, *****ES?! WHAT NOW?

Anyway, apparently the Sens had Lee ranked 4th in this draft. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Crosby was 1st, and there's a chance Price was 2nd or 3rd. That would mean that the Sens see Lee as a better prospect than all but one of Johnson, Pouliot, Ryan, and Brule.

I was a bit confused/shocked with the Lee pick myself when it was announced, but I give the Sens the benefit of the doubt here. They have an incredible track record with drafting.

They probably didn't even rank Crosby. I mean, what's the point? They're not getting him. The "Lee in the top four" probably refers to the top four AFTER Crosby. Which would put, obviously, Johnson, Ryan and Pouliot ahead of him.

 

[Nich]

i say staal

 

[ZombieMatt]

They probably didn't even rank Crosby. I mean, what's the point? They're not getting him. The "Lee in the top four" probably refers to the top four AFTER Crosby. Which would put, obviously, Johnson, Ryan and Pouliot ahead of him.

This is pointless. Nobody here has seen both players nearly enough to make any sort of remotely fair comparison.

And, RR, the fact of the matter is you wouldn't be involved in this discussion if Brian Lee wasn't American. So your bias (and let me be clear, I don't think that this bias is a bad thing at all, I think you bring an important view to the boards) is the reason you're posting in this thread.

 

[NyQuil]

sens fan = Lee
nucks fan = Bourdon

Still relevant.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

This is pointless. Nobody here has seen both players nearly enough to make any sort of remotely fair comparison.

And, RR, the fact of the matter is you wouldn't be involved in this discussion if Brian Lee wasn't American. So your bias (and let me be clear, I don't think that this bias is a bad thing at all, I think you bring an important view to the boards) is the reason you're posting in this thread.

You're probably right, although the fact of the matter is, because I follow American prospects fairly closely I feel I'm somewhat qualified to discuss the merits/demerits of players like Brian Lee. However, that doesn't mean I won't give credit where credit is due. If a Canadian (or Russian, Finnish, etc) prospect/player is superior to an American, I will acknowledge that fact.

 

[shveik]

I strongly disagree with HF's rating of 8.5 for Lee, Zherdev is an 8.5, they are not the same pedigree.

The beauty of the new HF rating system is that you can pick what you like for the grade - the perceived ceiling or what is the most likely to achieve. Would you have a problem with 8.5D for Lee (he is 8.5C now)? Zherdev is 8.5B which IMO could be already upgraded to 8.5A.

By the way, C means "May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings", so 8.5C can be interpreted as 6.5 - 8.5 range. D could be interpreted as 5.5 - 8.5 range.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The beauty of the new HF rating system is that you can pick what you like for the grade - the perceived ceiling or what is the most likely to achieve. Would you have a problem with 8.5D for Lee (he is 8.5C now)? Zherdev is 8.5B which IMO could be already upgraded to 8.5A.

By the way, C means "May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings", so 8.5C can be interpreted as 6.5 - 8.5 range. D could be interpreted as 5.5 - 8.5 range.

I think Lee is a 9D for a rating. He could drop down to a 6 (just your average 3rd string guy -- a "Delmore-esque" kind of player) or hit his potential of being one of the best offensive d-men in the league.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

I think Lee is a 9D for a rating. He could drop down to a 6 (just your average 3rd string guy -- a "Delmore-esque" kind of player) or hit his potential of being one of the best offensive d-men in the league.

Potentially they are the same. Bourdon has the better overall game, Lee a better offensive game. Both IMO should be 8-8.5's.

You're seriously underrating Bourdon's potential. He has potential to be a elite #1 dman as does Lee.

 

[Kermit]

Potentially they are the same. Bourdon has the better overall game, Lee a better offensive game. Both IMO should be 8-8.5's.

You're seriously underrating Bourdon's potential. He has potential to be a elite #1 dman as does Lee.

As I said in another thread, it is a mistake to think of Lee as an "offensive defenseman." He has good offensive skills, but he plays a fairly conservative two-way style. In many ways he reminds me of a young James Patrick (25 years ago when he also came to the University of North Dakota program--and yes, I've been watching UND that long). I'm a big Lee supporter, but he has a lot to prove against top competition. I think the WCHA will give him all he can handle this year. My guess is that he'll be at UND for 2 or even 3 years.

 

[Bileur]

You're the one who came through with the Pejorative Slured argument so dont give me the head shake. Bourdon> because I saw him and like what I saw. *** is that? I really like what Meszaros has been showing this year does this mean I wouldnt take Johnson (who I havent seen as much) over him? No its just stupid, specific situation .... its still the same idea.

Lee's been compared favorably to Brian Leetch, I dont see how you could argue an 8.5 upside without seeing him if thats whats been said. I dont know how much Hossa (the sens writer) saw him play before writing but those kinds of write-ups from scouts does seem to hint at a high upside, that doesent mean he'll reach it but its there.

 

[Blind Gardien]

You're the one who came through with the Pejorative Slured argument so dont give me the head shake.

Bourdon> because I saw him and like what I saw. *** is that?

Didn't say he was better. I said I'd take him over Lee. Not because he's better. Read it again (if you can manage to do so without your head exploding. ).

Nobody knows which one is better; that goes for those who have seen them, those who haven't seen them, and every combination in between. Not knowing which one is better, I'll take the one I've seen and know I like. That's pretty standard scouting practise. Not one that NHL teams need to fall back on in the high first round, but definitely one they use in subsequent rounds. Me, not being anything like an NHL scout and with plenty of other things to do besides running around the country watching Brian Lee, I'm satisfied with applying it in the top-10 of the draft too. If it doesn't work for you, fine, I'm not saying it should.

 

[Bileur]

Didn't say he was better. I said I'd take him over Lee. Not because he's better. Read it again

The argument still stands you'd still be taking Mesz over Johnson it doesent matter what words you used.

Nobody knows which one is better; that goes for those who have seen them, those who haven't seen them, and every combination in between. Not knowing which one is better, I'll take the one I've seen and know I like. That's pretty standard scouting practise. Not one that NHL teams need to fall back on in the high first round, but definitely one they use in subsequent rounds. Me, not being anything like an NHL scout and with plenty of other things to do besides running around the country watching Brian Lee, I'm satisfied with applying it in the top-10 of the draft too. If it doesn't work for you, fine, I'm not saying it should.

Good as long as we agree that you're making your pick having 0 knowledge of Brian Lee his abilities or potential and that your argument holds little to no water.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Lee is gonna be a future top 2 pairing Defencemen if it works out
Bourdon is gonna be a future top 2 pairing Defencemen if it works out

Everyone happy.

 

[Blind Gardien]

The argument still stands you'd still be taking Mesz over Johnson it doesent matter what words you used.

That particular one doesn't work for me, but I would understand if anybody out there who loved Meszaros wanted to use it. I like Meszaros, but I like Johnson a lot too.

Good as long as we agree that you're making your pick having 0 knowledge of Brian Lee his abilities or potential and that your argument holds little to no water.

Basically. I bristle (grrrr ) at the "0 knowledge", since I saw as much of Lee as the average person here, when he was opening the bench door so nicely at the WJC. And I have read all the same scouting reports and draft previews as everybody else. But I do agree that with a very few exceptions on this thread, we are all in that same boat with regards to having knowledge about Lee. Which is close enough to "0". So, that said, who would _you_ take again?

 

[Form and Substance]

Hell I'm comparing apples and oranges here but if Pouliot is a 7.5b then Lee and Bourdon should be 7-7.5 MAX.

 

[Bileur]

Basically. I bristle (grrrr ) at the "0 knowledge", since I saw as much of Lee as the average person here, when he was opening the bench door so nicely at the WJC. And I have read all the same scouting reports and draft previews as everybody else. But I do agree that with a very few exceptions on this thread, we are all in that same boat with regards to having knowledge about Lee. Which is close enough to "0". So, that said, who would _you_ take again?

Since I have next to 0 first hand (better?) knowledge, I witheld comment. I just added that the sens scouting staff is amazing and that i'm not dissapointed in the Lee pick.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

Hell I'm comparing apples and oranges here but if Pouliot is a 7.5b then Lee and Bourdon should be 7-7.5 MAX.

Sean Keogh (Sens' HF writer) explained it well when he said that HF player rankings mean a lot more compared to that team's other prospects than they do league-wide. It makes sense, though, as it would be hard to sit there and try to rank every prospect league-wide.

example- Since both Zherdev and Lee are 8.5's, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have equal upside. It just means that both have the best upside compared to the rest of the prospects in their respective team's system.

Though I agree about Pouliot, though, his ranking seems a bit low. Judging from the 4 or 5 games I've seen him on top of all the things I've heard, I would think he is an 8.0 or 8.5 C.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

You're probably right, although the fact of the matter is, because I follow American prospects fairly closely I feel I'm somewhat qualified to discuss the merits/demerits of players like Brian Lee. However, that doesn't mean I won't give credit where credit is due. If a Canadian (or Russian, Finnish, etc) prospect/player is superior to an American, I will acknowledge that fact.

thats good, Im sick of Russians thinking Ovechkin or Malkin is better then Crosby, when they are obviously not, im sick of Americans thinking Kessel is better then Crosby, when infact, thats a total joke, if they watched the world juniors.

 

[xtra]

thats good, Im sick of Russians thinking Ovechkin or Malkin is better then Crosby, when they are obviously not, im sick of Americans thinking Kessel is better then Crosby, when infact, thats a total joke, if they watched the world juniors.

Well i have bad news for you...its not only Russians that think Crosby is overrated....I truly belive that Ovechkin is better than Crosby and much better than Malkin and that Kessel falls somewhere inbetween crosby and Malkin and then there's Brule

my Ratings of the 5:

Ovechkin- 10


Crosby- 8

Kessel-7

Malkin-6.5

Brule-could go anywhere from 6.25-7.75



So you see its not just russians that think Ovechkin is better but even some canadians.

Now the only one i haven't seen much of is Malkin because i would watch Ovechkin when Russia was playing but i have seen alot of the other players:

Crosby almost weekly on T.V. and WJC
Ovechkin during the WJC and during the WC on tv
Brule i have seen live 10 times
Kessle on WJC's
Malkin 1 -5 shifts at the wjc's

 

[ZombieMatt]

Hell I'm comparing apples and oranges here but if Pouliot is a 7.5b then Lee and Bourdon should be 7-7.5 MAX.

I can't comment on Lee, but I have to disagree about Bourdon. I am very comfortable in saying I believe Bourdon has greater upside than Pouliot.

 

[Form and Substance]

I can't comment on Lee, but I have to disagree about Bourdon. I am very comfortable in saying I believe Bourdon has greater upside than Pouliot.

Well I don't know how much stock I'll put into that since you are a nucks fan.