Value of: Brayden Point Next Contract

[Throw More Waffles]

Didn’t Matthews just take a shorter contract to bring the value down?

I don’t have a clue what happened with that contract. Matthews wanted to be paid like the best player in the league with his career high of 69 points and injury problems. Apparently Dubas had to lower the term to 5 years in order to get Matthews at that aav. My personal take is that Dubas just sucks at his job.

Regardless, you have a list of players above who “avoided bridge deals” and every player on your list signed for 5-6 years. So I don’t really see what the Matthews contract has to do with your 2-3 year bridge argument.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

5 years at $10,000,000 a year.

 

[DFC]

Vegas FAns were saying the same thing last season with Karlsson.

Was Karlsson coming off a 32 goal season?

He might not hold 21% forever, but in our current PP set-up, he can maintain a much higher shooting % than the average player because his quality of chances are a lot higher.

I suspect he's not shooting a whole lot higher than 15%, if at all, at ES, and the big difference is coming on the PP. I don't see that changing until the league solves our PP.

 

[CDN24]

Kucherov bridged because his career high was 65 points and he correctly thought he would greatly improve. Ditto Marchand, who’s career high was 50 points at time of signing his bridge.

That’s what you’re side stepping. Players bridge because they don’t want to sign long term right before they believe they’ll break out. That’s why all of your Tampa players bridged, other than the guy that was already a proven 50 goal/95 point player. Point bridging after a 45 goal/100 point season is, as far as I can tell, entirely unprecedented. And you’re acting like an unprecedented action is the common sense approach, which is a very very strange way to act.

So if you believe bridging is so much better for the player, then I assume Marner and Aho will also bridge for low aav contracts? Or does this all only apply to Point for some reason?

Kucherov bridged because like Point he was a RFA without arbitration rights. Steve Yzerman would not give him more. I'm not saying that players like point want to bridge. I am saying that teams hold all the power on a player coming off an ELC and I think more should be bridged. I am also saying that in the long run guys like Kucherov and Subban got more money because of the bridge.

Marner will be difficult to bridge as Dubas has already painted himself into a corner with Nylander and Mathews contracts. Aho is interesting, team is nowhere near the cap so threat of offer sheet won't have much impact. Team probably prefers getting him locked up LT, player would probably prefer something shorter that gets him to big UFA money quicker. Aho is only 21, 8 year term takes him to 29 if he signs a mathews type he can hit UFA at 27.

The team makes a difference too, for years Edm was giving out LT right out of ELC because they were scared these guys would bolt 1st chance they got. Then they traded them away for peanuts.

Ultimately the teams are in control with players coming of ELC but it seems many GMs have forgotton that. My point (no pun intended) is that I don't think Julien brisebois and Yzerman have forgotton it. Not saying they will bridge Point but it is an option- may depend on of they win cup or not.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Kucherov bridged because like Point he was a RFA without arbitration rights. Steve Yzerman would not give him more. I'm not saying that players like point want to bridge. I am saying that teams hold all the power on a player coming off an ELC and I think more should be bridged. I am also saying that in the long run guys like Kucherov and Subban got more money because of the bridge.

Marner will be difficult to bridge as Dubas has already painted himself into a corner with Nylander and Mathews contracts. Aho is interesting, team is nowhere near the cap so threat of offer sheet won't have much impact. Team probably prefers getting him locked up LT, player would probably prefer something shorter that gets him to big UFA money quicker. Aho is only 21, 8 year term takes him to 29 if he signs a mathews type he can hit UFA at 27.

The team makes a difference too, for years Edm was giving out LT right out of ELC because they were scared these guys would bolt 1st chance they got. Then they traded them away for peanuts.

Ultimately the teams are in control with players coming of ELC but it seems many GMs have forgotton that. My point (no pun intended) is that I don't think Julien brisebois and Yzerman have forgotton it. Not saying they will bridge Point but it is an option- may depend on of they win cup or not.

You're dramatically underestimating the significance of league-wide comparables in contract negotiations. Why would Point accept putting up far better than players on other teams, and then accept far less money than them?

 

[CDN24]

You're dramatically underestimating the significance of league-wide comparables in contract negotiations. Why would Point accept putting up far better than players on other teams, and then accept far less money than them?

League wide comparables work for comparable contracts, ie 5 plus years coming of ELC. So no Point will not sign a $6M X 8 year contract. At the end of the day as a RFA with no arbitration rights he does not have many options. Hope for an offer sheet or sit out like Nylander did.

I am not saying he will get bridged but it is a strong possibility. They played hardball with Kucherov. He signed his bridge deal (3 year) on October 11, 2016 - 2 days before tampa's first game. he didn't want a bridge either but he got one and in the end it probably worked out better for him.

There are not many comparables on bridge deals but there are some. Point is worthy of Matthews/Marner money in terms of comparables. I don't think Tampa wants to pay over $10M in the near term. How they get around that could be a short term bridge so that when they give him big $$ they are buying UFA years not RFA years.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

League wide comparables work for comparable contracts, ie 5 plus years coming of ELC. So no Point will not sign a $6M X 8 year contract. At the end of the day as a RFA with no arbitration rights he does not have many options. Hope for an offer sheet or sit out like Nylander did.

I am not saying he will get bridged but it is a strong possibility. They played hardball with Kucherov. He signed his bridge deal (3 year) on October 11, 2016 - 2 days before tampa's first game. he didn't want a bridge either but he got one and in the end it probably worked out better for him.

There are not many comparables on bridge deals but there are some. Point is worthy of Matthews/Marner money in terms of comparables. I don't think Tampa wants to pay over $10M in the near term. How they get around that could be a short term bridge so that when they give him big $$ they are buying UFA years not RFA years.

I just don’t see how any of that applies to Point, but not Marner or Aho.
Dubas and Waddell will of course also be citing Kucherov’s contract.

 

[CDN24]

I just don’t see how any of that applies to Point, but not Marner or Aho.
Dubas and Waddell will of course also be citing Kucherov’s contract.

I just don’t see how any of that applies to Point, but not Marner or Aho.
Dubas and Waddell will of course also be citing Kucherov’s contract.

Dubas already had 2 opportunities to cite Kucherov`s contract. Marner`s agent will certainly be citing Matthews contract. Dubas has pretty much painted himself into a corner.

Point`s agent will be citing matthews contract as well and Tampa will be able to say thats not how we do things - everyone gets bridged. Our best player got bridged so will you. Look Brayden do you want to be a part of an elite team for years to come or do you want to do it Leafs way....

If I am Waddell I probably try to go longterm on Aho IF and only IF I can keep the dollars down $7M range. otherwise I push for a bridge.

They all may well end up with $10M+AAV 8 year deals. I just think teams are shooting themselves in the foot paying UFA money to guys coming of ELCs. They don`t need too until guys start signing offersheets.

 

[Habs Halifax]

5 years at $10,000,000 a year.

Might be able to get him for less AAV in Tampa cause the taxes are less. Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov all singed for deals that are less AAV vs other players equal to their talent level.

 

[AndreRoy]

Might be able to get him for less AAV in Tampa cause the taxes are less. Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov all singed for deals that are less AAV vs other players equal to their talent level.

And for the thousandth time they did it not because of taxes but because they wanted to keep the team together. Especially Stamkos and Hedman who publicly said on multiple occasions that their close friendship and desire to ice the best team possible were the reasons why they signed for what they did. (Hedman was the one who really left money on the table - at the time Stamkos actually wasn’t worth the contract he got, though this season he certainly has been.)

 

[Habs Halifax]

And for the thousandth time they did it not because of taxes but because they wanted to keep the team together. Especially Stamkos and Hedman who publicly said on multiple occasions that their close friendship and desire to ice the best team possible were the reasons why they signed for what they did. (Hedman was the one who really left money on the table - at the time Stamkos actually wasn’t worth the contract he got, though this season he certainly has been.)

They all took pay cuts cause they wanted to stay together and the money didn't mean anything. Taxes were a non factor?

Maybe if you say it for the thousandth and one time, your opinion might become a fact?

 

[AndreRoy]

They all took pay cuts cause they wanted to stay together and the money didn't mean anything. Taxes were a non factor?

"Victor and I are extremely close friends," Stamkos said. "We came up in this organization as 18-year-old kids. To say that we're going to be together for the long run, and on one team, that's something special. We have talked a lot throughout this process. I joke with him that sometimes I forget the time difference [with Sweden] and I'm calling him at 4 in the morning. But he's always getting back to me as quick as he can. It was extremely exciting to see him sign. A big reason why both of us stuck around is because of the relationship that we have as teammates and as friends as well."

Bond with 'Heddy' one reason Stamkos stayed with Lightning


"It's special to be part of something where you start from the bottom and make your way up," Stamkos said. "To be part of that, hopefully get that end product that results in a Stanley Cup, it means everything you did leading up to that was worth it."
"We want to win," Hedman said. "And we want to win in Tampa."...
"We wanted to find a way we could both remain here and still give us every opportunity for management to put a competitive team on the ice," Stamkos said. "It's really a special group here that is on the brink, and we want to keep that going."

Re-signing Stamkos and Hedman: How the Lightning kept the band together for another run at the Stanley Cup (w/ video)


"Staying in Tampa was the No. 1 priority, and to get it done the first day available was the goal from both sides," Hedman said. "[Steven Stamkos] signing a couple of days ago was a big boost for me, as well. ... We want to keep a competitive team. We had a special group down there and a great organization, great management and great coaching.
"So, for me, it was a never a doubt."...
"It all came down to both of us wanted to stay and be in Tampa," Hedman said. "We have a lot of good friends on that team and we're a close group. It made the decision way easier. We want to keep a competitive group and have a competitive team. For us moving forward, it's going to be important for everyone to buy into that. For me and [Stamkos], we want to win together. That was a big goal that we have, is to go all the way together with Tampa."

Victor Hedman signs 8-year extension with Lightning

But clearly not only do I not know what I’m talking about, but Stamkos and Hedman themselves don’t even know as well as you do why they signed in Tampa at the salaries they did.

 

[Habs Halifax]

"Victor and I are extremely close friends," Stamkos said. "We came up in this organization as 18-year-old kids. To say that we're going to be together for the long run, and on one team, that's something special. We have talked a lot throughout this process. I joke with him that sometimes I forget the time difference [with Sweden] and I'm calling him at 4 in the morning. But he's always getting back to me as quick as he can. It was extremely exciting to see him sign. A big reason why both of us stuck around is because of the relationship that we have as teammates and as friends as well."

Bond with 'Heddy' one reason Stamkos stayed with Lightning


"It's special to be part of something where you start from the bottom and make your way up," Stamkos said. "To be part of that, hopefully get that end product that results in a Stanley Cup, it means everything you did leading up to that was worth it."
"We want to win," Hedman said. "And we want to win in Tampa."...
"We wanted to find a way we could both remain here and still give us every opportunity for management to put a competitive team on the ice," Stamkos said. "It's really a special group here that is on the brink, and we want to keep that going."

Re-signing Stamkos and Hedman: How the Lightning kept the band together for another run at the Stanley Cup (w/ video)


"Staying in Tampa was the No. 1 priority, and to get it done the first day available was the goal from both sides," Hedman said. "[Steven Stamkos] signing a couple of days ago was a big boost for me, as well. ... We want to keep a competitive team. We had a special group down there and a great organization, great management and great coaching.
"So, for me, it was a never a doubt."...
"It all came down to both of us wanted to stay and be in Tampa," Hedman said. "We have a lot of good friends on that team and we're a close group. It made the decision way easier. We want to keep a competitive group and have a competitive team. For us moving forward, it's going to be important for everyone to buy into that. For me and [Stamkos], we want to win together. That was a big goal that we have, is to go all the way together with Tampa."

Victor Hedman signs 8-year extension with Lightning

But clearly not only do I not know what I’m talking about, but Stamkos and Hedman themselves don’t even know as well as you do why they signed in Tampa at the salaries they did.

What do you want them to say? The truth?

Pretty sure taxes were a factor as well as wanting to say. Both worked into Yzerman's favor in contract negotiations. Stamkos took quite a while sign his deal? If it was easy as he wanted to take a pay cut to stay, he would of signed that contract well in advance.

Yzerman played the tax advantage well. Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov are happy, their take home pay is equal or better than most players similar in talent to them. Plus the team is good so all of these things worked in favor of the Lightning and the core players

 

[AndreRoy]

What do you want them to say? The truth?

So you admit you have nothing with which to support your position, and can only laugh like a fool when presented with evidence that supports mine. That’s what I thought.

 

[rocketdan9]

Give him 11 plus million per season

 

[Crazydounut]

Point will re-sign in Tampa Bay at around 8.5 per for 8 years. Which will open him up for a even bigger payday when he is in the middle of his prime and a UFA. Considering everyone who plays in Tampa Bay loves it there and there is no income tax in Florida and Tampa Bay is the most consistent organization in the NHL with one of the best ownership groups. Its not gonna be a surprise when he takes a "pay-cut" to stay in Tampa.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you admit you have nothing with which to support your position, and can only laugh like a fool when presented with evidence that supports mine. That’s what I thought.

I have 3 players who took lower AAV contracts in a city with less taxes vs most other NHL cities. What? Are you saying Matthews and Tavares and evenutally Marner are greedy and don't want to take pay cuts to stay with the team? Let me guess, Hedman, Stamkos, and Kucherov like Tampa more than Tavares, Matthews, and Marner like Toronto?

What is the difference in clear take home pay between Stamkos at $8.5M in Tampa vs Tavares at $11M in Toronto? It's like a few $100k. Coincidental or are you still in denial?

Wake up from your dream buddy. It's a fact that there is a tax advantage in the state of Florida

 

[AndreRoy]

I have 3 players who took lower AAV contracts in a city with less taxes vs most other NHL cities. What? Are you saying Matthews and Tavares and evenutally Marner are greedy and don't want to take pay cuts to stay with the team? Let me guess, Hedman, Stamkos, and Kucherov like Tampa more than Tavares, Matthews, and Marner like Toronto?

What is the difference in clear take home pay between Stamkos at $8.5M in Tampa vs Tavares at $11M in Toronto? It's like a few $100k. Coincidental or are you still in denial?

Wake up from your dream buddy. It's a fact that there is a tax advantage in the state of Florida

So you have nothing. You have three players which is an insufficient sample size from which to draw any sort of conclusion in the first place, and nothing but your own assumptions as to their reasons. But those of us who actually have some semblance of evidence on our side are the ones in denial. Suuuuuure.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So you have nothing. You have three players which is an insufficient sample size from which to draw any sort of conclusion in the first place, and nothing but your own assumptions as to their reasons. But those of us who actually have some semblance of evidence on our side are the ones in denial. Suuuuuure.

I have nothing that you will acknowledge cause you have dug your foot in the sand... this is true.

 

[Unspecified]

I think he is worth a lot of money but my only question would be "IF" he were to be moved at some point in his next contract to a team where he is expected to be the go to guy game in and game out could he be that guy? Is he the product of who he plays with or can he do what he has done without Stamkos or Kucherov? I honestly don't watch enough Lightning games to be a Brayden Point aficionado so don't be an asshole and start bashing.

 

[AndreRoy]

I think he is worth a lot of money but my only question would be "IF" he were to be moved at some point in his next contract to a team where he is expected to be the go to guy game in and game out could he be that guy? Is he the product of who he plays with or can he do what he has done without Stamkos or Kucherov? I honestly don't watch enough Lightning games to be a Brayden Point aficionado so don't be an ******* and start bashing.

He was our 1C last season playing mostly with Palat, Gourde, and Johnson. He makes everybody he plays with better (Gourde owes a lot of his new contract to starting the season on Point’s line.) He’s not going anywhere but he can absolutely be “the man” on any team.

 

[Mikeaveli]

Can't wait til he signs for 9 or 9.5 x 8 lol

 

[junyab]

What do you want them to say? The truth?

Pretty sure taxes were a factor as well as wanting to say. Both worked into Yzerman's favor in contract negotiations. Stamkos took quite a while sign his deal? If it was easy as he wanted to take a pay cut to stay, he would of signed that contract well in advance.

Yzerman played the tax advantage well. Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov are happy, their take home pay is equal or better than most players similar in talent to them. Plus the team is good so all of these things worked in favor of the Lightning and the core players

For the billionth time, unless you fully understand the tax reporting of a professional athlete, your statements are nothing more than conjecture. They're tax returns are more complicated than just "state income tax" time "salary".

 

[Habs Halifax]

For the billionth time, unless you fully understand the tax reporting of a professional athlete, your statements are nothing more than conjecture. They're tax returns are more complicated than just "state income tax" time "salary".

Both Radulov and Bergevin are on record saying that taxes were the difference between Dallas and Montreal. Radulov circled back to the Habs and ask the Habs to pay more due to the tax difference and Bergevin refused.

Tavares at $11M in Toronto = Stamkos at $8.5M in Tampa. Do you think Tavares is greedy for taking more money to play for the team he prefers vs Stamkos in Tampa? Let me guess, Tavares could of gotten more and he did take a pay cut right? Well, why didn't he do what Stamkos did then and take $8.5M AAV to keep the team competitive with more cap space? I'm sure he didn't care about taxes eh?

Patch rejects a deal to go to the Kings but accepts a deal to go to Vegas.

There are plenty of examples if you take your blind folds off. Also, you are correct, tax reporting for a athlete is much more complicated than a normal 8-5, mon-fri working person. What are you trying to say? The accountants in Tampa are more talented and clever than the accountants in Toronto?

Go somewhere else with your billionth time comment. How about you say it a billion more times... Do you think your opinion becomes a fact then? Come on man

 

[DanM]

Point will re-sign in Tampa Bay at around 8.5 per for 8 years. Which will open him up for a even bigger payday when he is in the middle of his prime and a UFA. Considering everyone who plays in Tampa Bay loves it there and there is no income tax in Florida and Tampa Bay is the most consistent organization in the NHL with one of the best ownership groups. Its not gonna be a surprise when he takes a "pay-cut" to stay in Tampa.

Sure hope he signs that before Marner, I think that will be a good contract to use as a comparable.

I am actually in favour of seeing stars sign for less out of ELC's, I was not impressed with a few signings, my team included.