Player Discussion BoJesus-Jangles Horvat

[Spectrefire]

I don't understand what all the outrage is over the 8 year quote.

Horvat hasn't nearly shown enough to justify an 8 year contract at this point, and more importantly, nearly all his comparable players in similar contract situations have usually signed 5-6 year deals.

Droun, Seguin, Trocheck, Saad, Gaudreau, Foresberg, Barkov.

6 years is pretty ****ing standard.

 

[PG Canuck]

Because you have to get him signed or else the ticket sales will plummet even more.

If you want to see an angry fanbase - trade Bo Horvat.

 

[Roy Baby*]

Bo deserves 6 easy. Was a 1st liner at end of last year, will be part of a losing team for the next 5-6 years, Van is one of the most expensive cities in the world, and has communist-esque taxes.

Kid is way too competitive to spend his prime years here in squaller for peanuts.

Overpay or move on. Only 2 choices.

Can anyone explain rationally what his motivation would be to take anything less than an overpayment ?

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I've been dreading this thread for a while now. But now that it's here, I'll join in...

He'll probably kill himself to void his contact and allow himself to be free of this joke of a team and to spite management for being such a pack of morons.

He will then be brought back to life by Wayne Gretzky or Don Cherry or someone so that he can sign with the Oilers for free. From that time on, every time he plays against the horrible, terrible Canucks he will score a hundred points, and take a big dump at center ice that Dim Jim and the Personification of Hockey Mediocrity in Vancouver, Trevor Linden, will have to eat. Jim will spout some kind of gibberish while giving up a second round pick... and Trevor will declare it to be delicious and expect all Canucks fans to believe him and wish they could have eaten it too.

Then the Canucks will forever after be eliminated on the first game of the season and all opposing team's Stanley Cup parades will be planned to go down Granville Street.

That is, until we fire everyone in our head office and hire someone smart like Jim Rutherford to run our team.

Did I do it right?

Can't wait until Bo signs a reasonable contract for a reasonable term and this self-loathing band of haters can move on to the next catastrophe... like Gaudette staying in the NCAA until he becomes a FA, or Glass or Vilardi making the NHL ahead of Petersson.

 

[mathonwy]

I don't understand what all the outrage is over the 8 year quote.

Horvat hasn't nearly shown enough to justify an 8 year contract at this point, and more importantly, nearly all his comparable players in similar contract situations have usually signed 5-6 year deals.

Droun, Seguin, Trocheck, Saad, Gaudreau, Foresberg, Barkov.

6 years is pretty ****ing standard.

Of all the under 30 players this crap show of a franchise is contractually connected to, the only player that I can state that I am 100% confident in is Bo Horvat.

Tanev is second and I'm not 100% on Tanev because of his injurious record.

How about you?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I don't understand what all the outrage is over the 8 year quote.

There isn't any.

Understand now?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Mah I read worse, like when almost every member on this board was calling Horvat a bust cause he couldn't score in the AHL, I was one of the very few disagreeing with that. When most of you wanted to trade him for a 2nd rounder...

This never even came close to happening.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys just mentslly replace the actual posts with absurd ones so that you can give yourself a pat on the back for being above the crazy **** you made up. Like Homer Simpson getting bored of a movie so making up his own movie in his head.

Seriously, not a single ****ing poster ever called Bo a bust, ever even expressed concern about him not scoring in 8 AHL rehab games or ever even came close to suggesting we trade him for anything let alone a second rounder. This is such a ludicrous fabrication that it just defies belief. I doubt you could find a single post that even approaches this, let alone "most of the board."

Tha
Holy ****ing ****. What a load of *********.

 

[arttk]

If you want to see an angry fanbase - trade Bo Horvat.

It’s like finishing at the bottom is not enough.

Just get him signed, cut the BS. Picking the franchise lone bright light to play hardball is pretty dumb.

 

[mathonwy]

This never even came close to happening.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys just mentslly replace the actual posts with absurd ones so that you can give yourself a pat on the back for being above the crazy **** you made up. Like Homer Simpson getting bored of a movie so making up his own movie in his head.

Seriously, not a single ****ing poster ever called Bo a bust, ever even expressed concern about him not scoring in 8 AHL rehab games or ever even came close to suggesting we trade him for anything let alone a second rounder. This is such a ludicrous fabrication that it just defies belief. I doubt you could find a single post that even approaches this, let alone "most of the board."

Tha
Holy ****ing ****. What a load of *********.

Not a bust, a replaceable plug.

And it sounds like NoShowWilly feels the same.

Different strokes I guess.

 

[arttk]

Not a bust, a replaceable plug.

And it sounds like NoShowWilly feels the same.

Different strokes I guess.

Starting to think that Scurr is not a Canucks fan.

Granlund is a 2nd liner! Shooting % is totally sustainable and who cares about shot generation.

Horvat is a plug, sucks defensively, shooting % not sustainable and will definitely regress next season.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Scurr is a try-hard iconoclast whose fake opinions hardly represent "most of the board."

If you want to defend iFan's absolutely embarrassing joke of a ********* post you need to do more than show that Scurr said something about Horvat once to get under people's skin.

The quoted post from BKQCMV is obviously ironic.

The is absolutely no defense for what iFan wrote. None whatsoever. It is complete manure.

 

[NoShowWilly]

apparently saying that if a player wants 6 plus million that he needs to prove it on another contract is equivalent to saying a player is a dime a dozen player.

fantastic negotiators you guys are. just hand newport your *******, no lube required. A one time 52 point player with next to no negotiation rights and you guys are ready to hand everything over. Tons of comparable contracts to work from but who gives a ****? Just pay him what Johnny Gaudreau makes.

That'll work great going forward.

 

[arttk]

apparently saying that if a player wants 6 plus million that he needs to prove it on another contract is equivalent to saying a player is a dime a dozen player.

fantastic negotiators you guys are. just hand newport your *******, no lube required. A one time 52 point player with next to no negotiation rights and you guys are ready to hand everything over. Tons of comparable contracts to work from but who gives a ****? Just pay him what Johnny Gaudreau makes.

That'll work great going forward.

I think everything you have said is speculation. No repoets so far saying he wants 6, hell no numbers have leaked out at all.

To say he wants 6 and he should prove it it’s weird because what happens he is not asking for 6 and term is the issue.

I don’t even think people are mad, if this drags out to sept, then some of us will start to be worried. No contract by Oct, then we will be mad.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

apparently saying that if a player wants 6 plus million that he needs to prove it on another contract is equivalent to saying a player is a dime a dozen player.

fantastic negotiators you guys are. just hand newport your *******, no lube required. A one time 52 point player with next to no negotiation rights and you guys are ready to hand everything over. Tons of comparable contracts to work from but who gives a ****? Just pay him what Johnny Gaudreau makes.

That'll work great going forward.

It's what Jim has been doing so far.

 

[mathonwy]

Scurr is a try-hard iconoclast whose fake opinions hardly represent "most of the board."

If you want to defend iFan's absolutely embarrassing joke of a ********* post you need to do more than show that Scurr said something about Horvat once to get under people's skin.

The quoted post from BKQCMV is obviously ironic.

The is absolutely no defense for what iFan wrote. None whatsoever. It is complete manure.

Did you have a bad day? Sorry if you had a bad day.

Do you want an apology from iFan? Would that make you better?

 

[mathonwy]

apparently saying that if a player wants 6 plus million that he needs to prove it on another contract is equivalent to saying a player is a dime a dozen player.

fantastic negotiators you guys are. just hand newport your *******, no lube required. A one time 52 point player with next to no negotiation rights and you guys are ready to hand everything over. Tons of comparable contracts to work from but who gives a ****? Just pay him what Johnny Gaudreau makes.

That'll work great going forward.

An effective negotiator understands the intricacies of leverage.

Hint. Canucks have none because of their own incompetence.

Could have had Nylander... but nope... got Jake instead.

Traded McCann away for some reason.

Struck out with Linden Vey and Granlund... hard to say what Granlund will turn into but he's 24 so if Granlund has another form to turn into, I hope he figures it out sooner rather than later because we need a timid bottom 6er like we need another Sbisa.

As an aside, I don't think Bae would even be playing in the NHL right now if not for Bo.

Management might THINK this is a negotiation but in reality it isn't. They have dug themselves an incredibly deep hole with back to back stealth tanks and there is literally NOBODY in the organization that can do what Bo can do right now.

It really is in everyone's best interests to make their (our) future captain as happy as possible don't you agree?

edit.

When it comes to leverage, there is no other team in the league that has lesser leverage than the Canucks do versus a player like Bo. Even Colorado has more leverage because they have Duchene (25), McKinnon (21) AND Landeskog (23).

And Colorado also doesn't operate in a hockey crazed market like Vancouver.

 

[rypper]

Imagine this team without Bo Horvat. That's all the leverage he needs to get whatever he wants done in a contract.

 

[604]

Bo deserves 6 easy. Was a 1st liner at end of last year, will be part of a losing team for the next 5-6 years, Van is one of the most expensive cities in the world, and has communist-esque taxes.

Kid is way too competitive to spend his prime years here in squaller for peanuts.

Overpay or move on. Only 2 choices.

Can anyone explain rationally what his motivation would be to take anything less than an overpayment ?

The problem is that if you keep giving guys $6m you end up in the Oilers situation where you have RNH + Eberle + Hall all making big $$$ without being good enough to earn it.

Then you get a true Superstar, like McDavid, and you have to pay him $$$$$ because he's not going to earn less than double what RNH makes.

Sign sensible contracts. I'd support either a bridge under $4m or an 8 year deal at around $5m to $5.5m.

As stated, the player doesn't have a lot of leverage and the Canucks just need to keep it professional.

Just make sure he's at least 2 years from UFA if you're going to give him a bridge.

Imagine this team without Bo Horvat. That's all the leverage he needs to get whatever he wants done in a contract.

Look at the team with Bo. They suck and are one of the worst in the league. With or without Bo they are not entertaining and attendance is dropping.

They need to reduce ticket prices so families will start going to game again because I'd rather get invited on a fishing trip, a good round of golf, or even dinner at Miku then go to a Canucks game (and I think that's the general feeling around town).

 

[mathonwy]

I hope Bo is reading this thread.



Here ya go Bo. Have another 500k AAV.

 

[elitepete]

If we give him 5-6 mill long term, there is almost zero chance that comes back to bite us in the ass.

He is already a 4-5 mill player. If he doesn't improve at all from what he is now, he will be overpaid for 2-3 years, but after that the cap will go up enough for his contract to be fair value.

And that is only if he doesn't improve one iota, which is unlikely.

However... if we give him a 2 year bridge deal, and in two years he becomes a 60+ point two way center, he will command 8mill plus on his next contract due to the cap going up.

I mean, that would be fair value, but there would be zero chance of us getting a steal at that point.

 

[TruGr1t]

This never even came close to happening.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys just mentslly replace the actual posts with absurd ones so that you can give yourself a pat on the back for being above the crazy **** you made up. Like Homer Simpson getting bored of a movie so making up his own movie in his head.

I have unfortunate news for you. Even outside this message board there exists a concerning amount of people that approach their every-day lives in this manner.

 

[NoShowWilly]

An effective negotiator understands the intricacies of leverage.

Management might THINK this is a negotiation but in reality it isn't. They have dug themselves an incredibly deep hole as there is literally NOBODY in the organization that can do what Bo can do right now and it really is in everyone's best interests to make their (our) future captain as happy as possible.

edit.

When it comes to leverage, there is no other team in the league that has lesser leverage than the Canucks do versus a player like Bo. Even Colorado has more leverage because they have Duchene (25), McKinnon (21) AND Landeskog (23).

this is all hypothetical of course

leverage:

1. no arbitration rights

2. no one is going to offer him an offer sheet. If they do it won't be above 5.8m but no team will open that can of worms with a team that will have upwards of 35m in cap space next offseason.

Bo Horvat's options

1. negotiate a contract
2. accept the qualifying offer
3. go to Europe
4. sitout

Do the Canucks want to play hardball with Horvat? i would think not but everyone and their mother knows that Newport comes to negotiations with ridiculous asks.

The Canucks can come with a fine contract proposal with loads of comparable players contracts and they'll look just fine. It is a pretty simple story to spin if Newport starts making ridiculous asks over 'intangible value.'

relations going to be damaged because Bo didn't get comparable value to players with multiple better years then him? relations going to be damaged because the savior of the masses, Bo Horvat, didn't get everything that he wanted?

If Bo was getting hurt or pissy over that then he wouldn't be the leader to be that you are making him out to be. It isn't his personality and i doubt he would ever let it get to that.

 

[F A N]

An effective negotiator understands the intricacies of leverage.

Hint. Canucks have none because of their own incompetence.

...

When it comes to leverage, there is no other team in the league that has lesser leverage than the Canucks do versus a player like Bo. Even Colorado has more leverage because they have Duchene (25), McKinnon (21) AND Landeskog (23).

And Colorado also doesn't operate in a hockey crazed market like Vancouver.

Ya Colorado did so well in their negotiations with Ryan O'Reilly right? Exercised that leverage you talked about because they had Duchene, McKinnon, Landeskog, and Stastny at the time. Just hammered O'Reilly to submission because that's what a team can do. Never gave him long term money. Make him earn it every two years. That's the leverage you want a team to use in their negotiations with players right?

 

[NoShowWilly]

Ya Colorado did so well in their negotiations with Ryan O'Reilly right? Exercised that leverage you talked about because they had Duchene, McKinnon, Landeskog, and Stastny at the time. Just hammered O'Reilly to submission because that's what a team can do. Never gave him long term money. Make him earn it every two years. That's the leverage you want a team to use in their negotiations with players right?

FAN, mathonwy basically wants to give Bo a blank cheque. don't know why you are going after him here.

 

[mathonwy]

this is all hypothetical of course

leverage:

1. no arbitration rights

2. no one is going to offer him an offer sheet. If they do it won't be above 5.8m but no team will open that can of worms with a team that will have upwards of 35m in cap space next offseason.

Bo Horvat's options

1. negotiate a contract
2. accept the qualifying offer
3. go to Europe
4. sitout

Do the Canucks want to play hardball with Horvat? i would think not but everyone and their mother knows that Newport comes to negotiations with ridiculous asks.

The Canucks can come with a fine contract proposal with loads of comparable players contracts and they'll look just fine. It is a pretty simple story to spin if Newport starts making ridiculous asks over 'intangible value.'

relations going to be damaged because Bo didn't get comparable value to players with multiple better years then him? relations going to be damaged because the savior of the masses, Bo Horvat, didn't get everything that he wanted?

If Bo was getting hurt or pissy over that then he wouldn't be the leader to be that you are making him out to be. It isn't his personality and i doubt he would ever let it get to that.

Bo sitting out because of contract stuff is how riots get started. I don't like riots so Jimbo should pay the man what he's asking and move on.

It's not Bo's fault that they overpaid foundational Sutter and complimentary Eriksson.