Player Discussion BoJesus-Jangles Horvat

[2011 still hurts]

man I love bo

 

[M2Beezy]

man I love bo

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

man I love bo

How much does it cost to put a C on my Horvat’s jersey

 

[M2Beezy]

How much does it cost to put a C on my Horvat’s jersey

Probably go to a store that does that Billy cmon pal get with it

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

If they make anyone but Horvat captain...lol.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Probably go to a store that does that Billy cmon pal get with it

I’m gonna ignore this time...I’ll pretend you’ve never posted this

 

[maroon 6]

Reflecting at the 2015 season I'm really glad that we made it to the playoffs and Horvat got that experience as who knows how long our drought will be. Horvat was arguably our best player in that series too.

 

[Hemty]

Reflecting at the 2015 season I'm really glad that we made it to the playoffs and Horvat got that experience as who knows how long our drought will be. Horvat was arguably our best player in that series too.

While playing on the 4th line......

 

[M2Beezy]

While playing on the 4th line......

Was also still a rookie

 

[ddawg1950]

Man I love this prospect.

 

[tiny103]

time to get a horvat team Canada jersey!

 

[Icebreakers]

Hopefully he gets more stable line mates next year.

 

[canuckslover10]

Man I love this prospect.

Lol ummm we arent in 2013 no more

 

[elitepete]

remember when people said we lost the schneider trade

too funny

 

[Bleach Clean]

If they make anyone but Horvat captain...lol.

I'm starting to wonder if there's something about Horvat that Linden and co. don't like? I think they're reluctant to anoint him. I recall Linden saying something out of the ordinary when asked about Horvat before his contract talks. Can't remember it. Anyways, I'm curious how long they will delay his captaincy.

 

[ddawg1950]

Lol ummm we arent in 2013 no more

I vas kiddink.

 

[MS]

At the risk of interrupting the love fest here, I actually thought Horvat's season was mildly disappointing.

After the breakthrough he made in the first half of 16-17, he hasn't moved forward in the last 100 games or so and the fact that he was moved to the top PP unit masked the fact that his ES scoring dropped despite more icetime.

Extremely dangerous on the rush but a player with his build and athleticism should be able to develop an Iginla-style cycle-power game down low in contained situations (where most goals in this league are scored) but that doesn't seem to be happening at all. And will limit him to a 2nd liner long term and limit his career when his skating falls off in his late 20s if it doesn't happen. Needs to get his nose dirtier in the offensive zone and score more ugly goals.

This is not to say he isn't our best asset and probably our best forward. But there are issues and still a lot of room for improvement, and I don't think he was quite as good last year as it gets made out.

 

[Melvin]

At the risk of interrupting the love fest here, I actually thought Horvat's season was mildly disappointing.

After the breakthrough he made in the first half of 16-17, he hasn't moved forward in the last 100 games or so and the fact that he was moved to the top PP unit masked the fact that his ES scoring dropped despite more icetime.

Extremely dangerous on the rush but a player with his build and athleticism should be able to develop an Iginla-style cycle-power game down low in contained situations (where most goals in this league are scored) but that doesn't seem to be happening at all. And will limit him to a 2nd liner long term and limit his career when his skating falls off in his late 20s if it doesn't happen. Needs to get his nose dirtier in the offensive zone and score more ugly goals.

This is not to say he isn't our best asset and probably our best forward. But there are issues and still a lot of room for improvement, and I don't think he was quite as good last year as it gets made out.

I think you make some fair points.

Horvat scored 24 ES points as a 19-year old rookie playing very little minutes and this season had 30 in basically the same amount of games with much higher-quality minutes.

It is not really as much progression as you would like to see and what he was doing as a rookie doesn't seem so impressive when he is playing much the same way three years later.

Not to pile on, but I also hoped that his shot metrics would look better after four years of data. He has consistently been a player who surrenders more shot attempts against than for under pretty neutral deployment and he is basically a complete disaster on the penalty kill to the point where they should really just give up on this idea.

I think it's fair to say that we need to Horvat to take his game to another level if he is going to be a first-line player on a quality team.

 

[vancityluongo]

I wonder how much Horvat will ultimately be limited by coaching and awful teammates.

Have not looked at anything to back this up, but this year he seemed to officially get matched up with top pairings; my gut feeling is that's what cause the stall in his numbers more than anything. Would appreciate if someone has the QOC numbers to prove/disprove that notion. Visually he was quicker, stronger and more explosive/effective at creating dangerous opportunities, especially after he came back from injury and went on a tear.

Think the other part of it is that although it was much better under Green than Willie, the team still sees Bo as a potential "two-way" stud rather than a very capable offensive player that has consistently been subpar in areas like the PK. Would really like to see him take on the bulk of the offensive zone starts the Sedins were taking to see how that affects his game next year, with Gaunce and Sutter being used the same way defensively.

 

[Nucker101]

I wonder how much Horvat will ultimately be limited by coaching and awful teammates.

Have not looked at anything to back this up, but this year he seemed to officially get matched up with top pairings; my gut feeling is that's what cause the stall in his numbers more than anything. Would appreciate if someone has the QOC numbers to prove/disprove that notion. Visually he was quicker, stronger and more explosive/effective at creating dangerous opportunities, especially after he came back from injury and went on a tear.

Think the other part of it is that although it was much better under Green than Willie, the team still sees Bo as a potential "two-way" stud rather than a very capable offensive player that has consistently been subpar in areas like the PK. Would really like to see him take on the bulk of the offensive zone starts the Sedins were taking to see how that affects his game next year, with Gaunce and Sutter being used the same way defensively.

There’s some good articles you can google search that show that QoT and Zone Starts are more crucial than QoC when it comes to effecting a player’s performance.

The main reason being that most players spend more time with their regular line mates than they do facing the same level of competition(#1 lines or shutdown lines, etc.)

IE: Bo playing with Boeser and Sven regularly at 5v5 with higher offensive zone starts is better than him playing with Eriksson and Leipsic even if he gets less defensive attention/line matching from opponents when playing with the latter duo.

Due to icings, on the fly shifts, line mixing, and some opposing coach’s choosing not to not hard line match, it eventually does lead to matches against different lines throughout games.

 

[MS]

I think you make some fair points.

Horvat scored 24 ES points as a 19-year old rookie playing very little minutes and this season had 30 in basically the same amount of games with much higher-quality minutes.

It is not really as much progression as you would like to see and what he was doing as a rookie doesn't seem so impressive when he is playing much the same way three years later.

Not to pile on, but I also hoped that his shot metrics would look better after four years of data. He has consistently been a player who surrenders more shot attempts against than for under pretty neutral deployment and he is basically a complete disaster on the penalty kill to the point where they should really just give up on this idea.

I think it's fair to say that we need to Horvat to take his game to another level if he is going to be a first-line player on a quality team.

Exactly.

Good player who became a good player quite quickly .... but you want him to be a great player here and he's flatlining right now.

Defensively, he's been getting these Bergeron comparisons for a long time and - while a 'solid' two-way player - is just nowhere near that level and lousy on the PK.

Offensively, yeah he's dangerous on the rush and can make great individual plays ... but that's been the case for a few years and he'll never be a legit first-liner on a good team if that's his entire toolbox.

You want him to either take a step defensively to be a two-way beast 2nd line center in what used to be Kesler's role or take a step offensively to be a 70-point first liner and right now neither is really happening.

And this is why I don't want to throw the extra pressure and responsibility of the captaincy on him right now when he still really needs to be working on developing his on-ice play.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Not to pile on, but I also hoped that his shot metrics would look better after four years of data. He has consistently been a player who surrenders more shot attempts against than for under pretty neutral deployment and he is basically a complete disaster on the penalty kill to the point where they should really just give up on this idea.

Can you show what has led you to this determination? I'm seeing different metrics in his fourth year than his first.

 

[JT Milker]

To be fair, he played more than a few games this season with AHL linemates. I think if he were to stay healthy and play a full season with Boeser and another good winger (that we don't currently have), you'd see quite a spike in his production and possession metrics.

 

[Melvin]

Can you show what has led you to this determination? I'm seeing different metrics in his fourth year than his first.

I never said it didn't get better, just that it has consistently been pretty bad. His first year you chalk it up to a combination of inexperience and small sample size, but it's four consecutive seasons now of pretty underwhelming data.

 

[Addison Rae]

I thought he took a step in the right direction defensively, as a #1 centre on a team that was tied for last place with ~5 games left he did his job. He was a positive possession player for the first time in his career, essentially broke even in terms of goals for%

His even strength numbers were a bit concerning, but he did score at around the same rate as Logan Couture, Ryan O’Reilly, Ryan Johansen etc.

I expect a ~30/30 season out of him, and expect him to peak as a Logan Couture type player with worse defense.