Blues Trade Proposals Part XXVI

[Evocable Manager]

A few Detroit fans have been pushing Nyquist+Svechnikov+16OA.

I'd be happy with that or if a 3 way happens and we end up with the 4th

I think I'd prefer Tatar over Nyquist. Either way I'd be extremely happy with those peices. Their offensive production is similar but Tatar is the better possession player and I'd argue better defensively. However their close enough I'm fine with either. Though they'd be a good fit to replace Brouwer. Tatar salary is less which gives more options as well.

Svech looks to be NHL ready and I like him. Big frame, skilled, can score. Then with the 16th we could get Rubstov or Asplund.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Probably going to have to package Shatty up to get get a good return. Shatty + Rattie + 1st would get us something decent. Not sure it would get us in the top 5, but it would get a really good in return. I'd look Detroits way.

If Shattenkirk were viewed as a Cup winning defender who averaged about 0.8 ppg, I think he would be more attractive. That narrative is still possible.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I think I'd prefer Tatar over Nyquist. Either way I'd be extremely happy with those peices. Their offensive production is similar but Tatar is the better possession player and I'd argue better defensively. However their close enough I'm fine with either. Though they'd be a good fit to replace Brouwer. Tatar salary is less which gives more options as well.

Svech looks to be NHL ready and I like him. Big frame, skilled, can score. Then with the 16th we could get Rubstov or Asplund.

Nyquist's value went up after he won the Kentucky Derby.

 

[Frenzy31]

A few Detroit fans have been pushing Nyquist+Svechnikov+16OA.

I'd be happy with that or if a 3 way happens and we end up with the 4th

Same. From Detroit, I would like Mantha included.

Boston offered a very solid return for Shatty, but Loui is looking for a stupid contract. I think his value is fairly high.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I don't want anyone who is on the wrong side of their career.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Same. From Detroit, I would like Mantha included.

Boston offered a very solid return for Shatty, but Loui is looking for a stupid contract. I think his value is fairly high.

I think we would all want Mantha but I doubt we get 4 pieces. I also doubt Detroit gives Mantha over Tatar/Svech.
Its likely we have to add something extra which [depending on the extra piece] may not be worth it.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

After last year and this years PO's you can't possibly be continuing to suggest the Blues trade Pietrangelo. The team is far better off adding to Shatty for an established but youngish center OR dealing him for a high pick that can develop into a top center.

If you could honestly get a Nurse and Draisatl for Petro or two top three to six forwards and resign Shatty, then I wouldn't have a problem with that. Petro is a our best defenseman, but if his return would end up being greater than his value in terms of making us better, then you have to explore your options as a GM. It isn't about Petro being great, it is about making the Blues a cup winner. I think you need to watch the highlights of Elliott standing on his head a bit closer as to who is on the ice. He's been great, but Petro also is getting beat and missing his guy. Watch the cross bar goal taken away again....Please explain what Petro was doing and why he is out by the blue line. They all make mistakes. Dallas is just that good. Again...it isn't about the value or the better player...it's about the return you could possibly get in overpayment that could make the Blues better in the long run.

 

[Dbrownss]

Nurse is an absolute wildcard and is not someone you bet your franchise on. Draisaitl also fell back to earth fairly fast too. Little to no interest in trading Pietrangelo for them.

I'd much rather pick Hitchcock's mind on Pietrangelo and his defensive zone "oddities". His IQ is far too good.

Unless your getting an established 1c, Pietrangelo isn't traded, Period. I'm fairly confident Armstrong has the same thoughts and they probably go further

 

[Evocable Manager]

Unless were getting a Giroux back no reason to trade Petro.

We don't need the best 1C, even an average 1C will do. Were a deep team.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Yet you will take less than equal return for one of the top 5 offensive defensemen in the game the past several years....on a team that struggles offensively.... Perhaps you need to look at what happened the last several times the Blues decided to part ways with the same type of player. They went from favorite to run of the mill playoff team in a big hurry.... Duchesne and Jeff Brown ring a bell? Neither Petro or Parayko can come close to Shatty's ability to run a power play. We will agree to disagree.....

 

[Evocable Manager]

Well Tampa's president said they would make the "necessary" moves to keep Stamkos around.
With Johnson needing a new contract next year, any chance we can maybe get him? Not sure if Tampa would want Shattenkirk.

 

[Spektre]

Well Tampa's president said they would make the "necessary" moves to keep Stamkos around.
With Johnson needing a new contract next year, any chance we can maybe get him? Not sure if Tampa would want Shattenkirk.

TB already spends a lot on D. They'll have Hednan to resign as well. I think there's almost no chance Shattenkirk is dealt to TB. The only way that makes sense for them would be sending a D back to the Blues and that's the last thing the Blues need

 

[Captain Creampuff]

If you could honestly get a Nurse and Draisatl for Petro or two top three to six forwards and resign Shatty, then I wouldn't have a problem with that. Petro is a our best defenseman, but if his return would end up being greater than his value in terms of making us better, then you have to explore your options as a GM. It isn't about Petro being great, it is about making the Blues a cup winner. I think you need to watch the highlights of Elliott standing on his head a bit closer as to who is on the ice. He's been great, but Petro also is getting beat and missing his guy. Watch the cross bar goal taken away again....Please explain what Petro was doing and why he is out by the blue line. They all make mistakes. Dallas is just that good. Again...it isn't about the value or the better player...it's about the return you could possibly get in overpayment that could make the Blues better in the long run.

What a terrible return for an arguably Top 5 defenseman

 

[TK 421]

Yet you will take less than equal return for one of the top 5 offensive defensemen in the game the past several years....on a team that struggles offensively.... Perhaps you need to look at what happened the last several times the Blues decided to part ways with the same type of player. They went from favorite to run of the mill playoff team in a big hurry.... Duchesne and Jeff Brown ring a bell? Neither Petro or Parayko can come close to Shatty's ability to run a power play. We will agree to disagree.....

I think you and I value Shattenkirk differently. While I laud his offensive abilities and understand your concern about potential drop off, I view Pietrangelo/Parayko as being more than adequate to cover for his loss. I also see Dunn/Walman as very promising (particularly Dunn). It may be a hit short term but I'm not sold on that given that Parayko did very well filling Shatty's shoes while he was injured. Even if Parayko doesn't completely fill Shatty's shoes offensively he will cost less thus allowing the team to spend more elsewhere. Imo Dunn runs a pp better than Shatty did at the same age and I've seen both. He has instincts well ahead of his age in that regard. Obviously that's taking a bit of risk on projection.

Difficult to know what the return for Shattenkirk would be vs. Pietrangelo but I would be scared as hell to move Petro for an unknown Draft pick/ equivalent forward while I would be more than content to move Shattenkirk with us taking some risk.

Curious since our views are different how you would approach a potential trade of Pietrangelo.

Edit: Apologies missed your earlier reply

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I think you and I value Shattenkirk differently. While I laud his offensive abilities and understand your concern about potential drop off, I view Pietrangelo/Parayko as being more than adequate to cover for his loss. I also see Dunn/Walman as very promising (particularly Dunn). It may be a hit short term but I'm not sold on that given that Parayko did very well filling Shatty's shoes while he was injured. Even if Parayko doesn't completely fill Shatty's shoes offensively he will cost less thus allowing the team to spend more elsewhere. Imo Dunn runs a pp better than Shatty did at the same age and I've seen both. He has instincts well ahead of his age in that regard. Obviously that's taking a bit of risk on projection.

Difficult to know what the return for Shattenkirk would be vs. Pietrangelo but I would be scared as hell to move Petro for an unknown Draft pick/ equivalent forward while I would be more than content to move Shattenkirk with us taking some risk.

Curious since our views are different how you would approach a potential trade of Pietrangelo.

If I could get a Giroux for Petro or a true #1 center, then I would CONSIDER it. Whether I could actually do it...I kind of doubt it. He has a legitimate place and just needs a better defensive coach. How good were the Blues defensemen with Petro out this year? Didn't miss much of a beat. Good shut out run....nice having incredible depth. I really don't think it is in our interest to trade either Petro or Shatty or Parayko for that matter, but if I'm blown away with a deal, then I consider it. I wouldn't look for a Shatty deal for that little. I'm not as impressed by Parayko as most. I don't see the Shea Weber comparison as he has slightly more grit than Petro. Weber is a nasty player. Tyler Myers...I see that. Great first year, but so did Tyler Myers. It seems last game they got a book on Parayko, because several times he was pinched off continually moving to his forehand and he coughed up the puck for some crucial turnovers. He needs a few years of adjustments. They will find his tendencies. May be in our interest to see what we have as it is apparent that Schmaltz, Dunn, and Walman all three are not that close. Dominate the AHL first.

Understand some of my Petro offers are more sarcasm than reality. I would want a totally stud in his place. This is a forum....certainly just a place to throw crap against the wall to see what may stick. No one is a GM or takes in account all parameters. I think Petro's place in this community along with Shatty's would make it difficult to move either player. The Blues can ill afford making a junk deal as the Oshie deal was nearly marketing suicide. There is a business to this as well.

Its all good my friend! LGB

 

[Bluesin7]

Isn't Tatar more of a Schwartz type player? And are we still under the whole looking for a sniper/scorer phase?

And I listened to some Detroit fans talk about how bad Nyquist was at some points this year, not very interested unless he shows some consistency in his game and rounds out more

 

[Vladys Gumption]

If I could get a Giroux for Petro or a true #1 center, then I would CONSIDER it. Whether I could actually do it...I kind of doubt it. He has a legitimate place and just needs a better defensive coach. How good were the Blues defensemen with Petro out this year? Didn't miss much of a beat. Good shut out run....nice having incredible depth. I really don't think it is in our interest to trade either Petro or Shatty or Parayko for that matter, but if I'm blown away with a deal, then I consider it. I wouldn't look for a Shatty deal for that little. I'm not as impressed by Parayko as most. I don't see the Shea Weber comparison as he has slightly more grit than Petro. Weber is a nasty player. Tyler Myers...I see that. Great first year, but so did Tyler Myers. It seems last game they got a book on Parayko, because several times he was pinched off continually moving to his forehand and he coughed up the puck for some crucial turnovers. He needs a few years of adjustments. They will find his tendencies. May be in our interest to see what we have as it is apparent that Schmaltz, Dunn, and Walman all three are not that close. Dominate the AHL first.

Understand some of my Petro offers are more sarcasm than reality. I would want a totally stud in his place. This is a forum....certainly just a place to throw crap against the wall to see what may stick. No one is a GM or takes in account all parameters. I think Petro's place in this community along with Shatty's would make it difficult to move either player. The Blues can ill afford making a junk deal as the Oshie deal was nearly marketing suicide. There is a business to this as well.

Its all good my friend! LGB

Wait a minute. You would consider a trade for an established number 1 center, but you would absolutely make a trade for two maybes? That is some completely backwards logic.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Isn't Tatar more of a Schwartz type player? And are we still under the whole looking for a sniper/scorer phase?

And I listened to some Detroit fans talk about how bad Nyquist was at some points this year, not very interested unless he shows some consistency in his game and rounds out more

Tatar is very fast, has good hands. I think yes better then Nyquist and if we can't resign Brouwer I think he'd fit will in Brouwer spot.

I've come to accept that we won't get a 1C for Shattenkirk. We could trade for a potential 1C. But name a potential 1C that's available?

 

[Dbrownss]

Isn't Tatar more of a Schwartz type player? And are we still under the whole looking for a sniper/scorer phase?

And I listened to some Detroit fans talk about how bad Nyquist was at some points this year, not very interested unless he shows some consistency in his game and rounds out more

By no means is this a apples to apples comparison but look at how we talk about Tarasenko sometimes...




As for Shattenkirk and his awesome PP prowess. I don't see what's so damn special, it looks more to me about chemisrty then anything.

When Petro was out, things were good for about a week then Shattenkirk started to get exposed pretty regularly. He can not carry Petro's minutes. I've seen enough out of Petro to give him the nod in running the PP, he's a great facilitator of the puck and has good zone entries. His point shot is the problem though.

 

[MissouriMook]

Well Tampa's president said they would make the "necessary" moves to keep Stamkos around.
With Johnson needing a new contract next year, any chance we can maybe get him? Not sure if Tampa would want Shattenkirk.

I expect that Killorn will shake loose this offseason and, if Stamkos is back, that Palat will be the odd man out in the 2017 offseason. Unless they are able to move Drouin to C, I don't see them letting go of Johnson.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Wait a minute. You would consider a trade for an established number 1 center, but you would absolutely make a trade for two maybes? That is some completely backwards logic.

In reality, I don't make the deal for Nurse and Draisaitl. Did you see the part where I made it pretty clear that without a massive overpayment I wouldn't trade either? This isn't a vast overpayment. Draisaitl and Nurse is a fair value trade. For Petro, they would have to part ways with Connor McDavid or there is no conversation. Nurse and Draisaitl + the #1 pick maybe would be enough of an overpayment. Lots of parts that may work out, but I still hesitate to bite. That's more of a sarcastic reply to giving away Shattenkirk for table scraps when in his role, he is one of the best in the business...just as Petro is defensively. The notion of dumping an all star that is so vital to our offense makes no sense to me. Parayko is not a replacement for either.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

As for Shattenkirk and his awesome PP prowess. I don't see what's so damn special, it looks more to me about chemisrty then anything.

When Petro was out, things were good for about a week then Shattenkirk started to get exposed pretty regularly. He can not carry Petro's minutes. I've seen enough out of Petro to give him the nod in running the PP, he's a great facilitator of the puck and has good zone entries. His point shot is the problem though.

We did nothing on our power play while Shatty was out. It showed. Petro is good on the power play. Maybe on the half wall.... or perhaps with his stick..in front of the net, but not the point. You need the shot or you just gave the defense the edge to back off and guard a Tarasenko or Steen closer. Shatty is a dangerous player as 14 goals is no slouch in 71 games. We have forwards that can't accomplish that...

 

[Dbrownss]

We did nothing on our power play while Shatty was out. It showed. Petro is good on the power play. Maybe on the half wall.... or perhaps with his stick..in front of the net, but not the point. You need the shot or you just gave the defense the edge to back off and guard a Tarasenko or Steen closer. Shatty is a dangerous player as 14 goals is no slouch in 71 games. We have forwards that can't accomplish that...

Petro can work on his shot, he doesn't even have to have a booming shot, just a nice snap shot.

Anyways what do you feel more comfortable with

A Shattenkirk led defense that may never have the 30 min all situations stud.

Or

A Pietrangelo led defense that doesn't have the guarenteed PP specialist, but has Forwards that can play the point and 3 defenseman(prospects) that could feasibly replace Shattenkirk?


I'll take second option easily. Shattenkirk is about to be bumped down a tier in offensive dman

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Petro can work on his shot, he doesn't even have to have a booming shot, just a nice snap shot.

Anyways what do you feel more comfortable with

A Shattenkirk led defense that may never have the 30 min all situations stud.

Or

A Pietrangelo led defense that doesn't have the guarenteed PP specialist, but has Forwards that can play the point and 3 defenseman(prospects) that could feasibly replace Shattenkirk?


I'll take second option easily. Shattenkirk is about to be bumped down a tier in offensive dman

This

Pietrangelo-Parayko-??? run d crew is better than a Shattenkirk-Parayko-??? run d crew.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

This

Pietrangelo-Parayko-??? run d crew is better than a Shattenkirk-Parayko-??? run d crew.

Petro and Shatty is better than Petro Parayko

Petro, Shatty and Parayko is an even better scenario