Blues Trade Proposals Part XXVI
- Thread starter EastonBlues22
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Everyone is aware the Oulers Center depth is pretty stocked. The Islanders too have a log jam of Centers.
Could a deal centered around Shattenkirk for Matthew Barzal get done and make sense for both clubs?
The Islanders will probably be trading Hamonic in the off season as well. The Isles have a 1st and a 4th round pick currently in 2016. Maybe one of their main goals in any Hamonic deal is landing at least a 2nd in 2016.
Barzal is more of a play maker than a goal scorer. It's been said by pro scouts that his skating is elite and nobody in the 2015 could skate better. That's a pretty bold statement given how fast McDavid looks at times.
Could a deal centered around Shattenkirk for Matthew Barzal get done and make sense for both clubs?
The Islanders will probably be trading Hamonic in the off season as well. The Isles have a 1st and a 4th round pick currently in 2016. Maybe one of their main goals in any Hamonic deal is landing at least a 2nd in 2016.
Barzal is more of a play maker than a goal scorer. It's been said by pro scouts that his skating is elite and nobody in the 2015 could skate better. That's a pretty bold statement given how fast McDavid looks at times.
Dbrownss
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I'm sorry but I find Barzal being the best skater funny. McDavid absolutely clowns NHL players. His speed, and shiftiness is outstanding. His acceleration and stopping ability is something to behold. I'd put money on him being the best skater.
As to the trade, I doubt Islanders would bite
Pretty sure the scouts talking about Barzal's skating meant he was on par with McDavid, not that he was better. Even saying that is a bold statement.
If the Isles trade Hamonic,and from all accounts they probably will, RHD will be a hole they'll need to fill. I could see them wanting Shattenkirk. I'm just not sure what they're willing to give up vs what Army would want.
Obviously if Shattenkirk was extended or the Isles were allowed to talk to him prior to a trade it would increase his value.
If the Isles trade Hamonic,and from all accounts they probably will, RHD will be a hole they'll need to fill. I could see them wanting Shattenkirk. I'm just not sure what they're willing to give up vs what Army would want.
Obviously if Shattenkirk was extended or the Isles were allowed to talk to him prior to a trade it would increase his value.
Dbrownss
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I've got a small sample size for watching barzal so I'm not trying to draw a line in the sand, but as you said....even being on par with McDavid is bold. I haven't done any post draft research on him so I could easily be missing something but just randomly seeing his name pop up, I got the impression he wasn't been a standout.
I do agree with your overall proposal though. I'd look to get a Blue Chip prospect+ for Shattenkirk or a 1st line forward.
I do agree with your overall proposal though. I'd look to get a Blue Chip prospect+ for Shattenkirk or a 1st line forward.
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
Here are my thoughts on Shatty:
1. Who ever acquires him will be looking to keep him long term and wont view him as a rental. They would be able to offer him an additional year for his contact and contract $$ would be similar no matter where he went. Better the team you know then moving into a different lockerroom.
So my guess is Edmonton will be out - I think there is very limited chance he would resign there. Teams in: NYI, NYR, Boston, TB (yes I said it - Drouin++). Detroit. Vancouver
2. He has a fair amount of value. Boston trade shows how he is viewed by the league. A top 6 forward, a couple of young players, and a 1st. The fact that Army had the right to speak with LE about a contact demands shows says a lot.
3. Boston, Detroit, Vancouver, and possibly NYI (depending on Harmonic) would all be interested.
FINALLY, please don't take him to the regular trade boards to discuss value. Fans overvalue prospects here AND try to negotiate like used car salesmen. Better off keeping discussions here because they literally GO NO WHERE.
1. Who ever acquires him will be looking to keep him long term and wont view him as a rental. They would be able to offer him an additional year for his contact and contract $$ would be similar no matter where he went. Better the team you know then moving into a different lockerroom.
So my guess is Edmonton will be out - I think there is very limited chance he would resign there. Teams in: NYI, NYR, Boston, TB (yes I said it - Drouin++). Detroit. Vancouver
2. He has a fair amount of value. Boston trade shows how he is viewed by the league. A top 6 forward, a couple of young players, and a 1st. The fact that Army had the right to speak with LE about a contact demands shows says a lot.
3. Boston, Detroit, Vancouver, and possibly NYI (depending on Harmonic) would all be interested.
FINALLY, please don't take him to the regular trade boards to discuss value. Fans overvalue prospects here AND try to negotiate like used car salesmen. Better off keeping discussions here because they literally GO NO WHERE.
Dbrownss
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I honestly wouldn't count Edmonton out. Their LHD is perfect to pair with Shattenkirk and that team will be a powerhouse. Although I only see them dealing RNH for him...which is taboo on this board :/
Agreed in perceived value....with 1 year left I'd be happy with a Blue chip prospect and a 1st for him. If we get more...cool.
NYI: Eh..fans say his money is an issue
NYR: absolutely nothing of interest
Boston: 1st+ a couple prospects...Wasn't too thrilled with the rumored trade.
Detroit: 1st+ svechnikov+
Tampa Bay: I think this one is tough unless they dump carle but I'd still take Drouin++easily
Agreed in perceived value....with 1 year left I'd be happy with a Blue chip prospect and a 1st for him. If we get more...cool.
NYI: Eh..fans say his money is an issue
NYR: absolutely nothing of interest
Boston: 1st+ a couple prospects...Wasn't too thrilled with the rumored trade.
Detroit: 1st+ svechnikov+
Tampa Bay: I think this one is tough unless they dump carle but I'd still take Drouin++easily
I don't even bother with them. The Kadri-Parayko thread is just bizarre to me, the OP admitted he wasn't sure of value and the majority of Leafs fans said it was bad for the Blues. How is it still going?
A few years ago we were saying similar things to Islanders fans about budget issues. They don't know what the teams budget is going to be moving forward. Using Okposo as an example doesn't make sense either. Where I would largely agree with them is that they are paying Leddy and Boychuk $11.5m long term, does adding Shattenkirk at $7m make sense? Probably not.
As for Drouin, it really depends on what Yzerman is planning there. I suspect he might look to get this year of his contract tolled... that would mean both Drouin and Carle have 2 years remaining at a total of $6.4m. He might want to argue that the cap hit for both combined is still good value, and the potential elite ability of Drouin still commands a good return. If Stamkos doesn't sign in Toronto, I think they are the likely landing spot for Drouin, simply because they can afford to eat the Carle contract.
carter333167
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Exactly what I was thinking...a few of the Leaf's fans make the Oiler's fans look uber reasonable (and far more polite).
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The whole Matt Carle thing to me is intriguing because I still think he has some value as a 5/6 or 4/5 guy depending on who you can pair him with. If you could get TBL to retain $1.5M to $2M of his cap hit for 2 years, TBL comes out of it better than if they buy him out. Buying out 2 years at $11M means they spread 2/3 of the cap hit ($7.33M) over twice the remaining term (4 years) leaving a $1.83M buyout cap hit for four years. Asking them to retain as much for two years seems like a no-brainer if they don't have any takers for the full cap hit.
Shattenkirk for Drouin, Carle + doesn't seem like a horrible outcome.
Edit: It appears that TBL just re-instated Drouin, so I guess he has agreed to report to Syracuse.
Shattenkirk for Drouin, Carle + doesn't seem like a horrible outcome.
Edit: It appears that TBL just re-instated Drouin, so I guess he has agreed to report to Syracuse.
carter333167
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It has already been determined that Drouin's contract CAN NOT be tolled. He has played a too many games.
Vincenzo Arelliti
He Can't Play Center
An absolute no to Matt Carle. We aren't here to help other teams out with their problems. Shattenkirk is still, and might always be, a better player than Drouin. We should not be trading Shattenkirk to TBL.
Trading Shattenkirk in general is just a bad idea. We're not going to get great value because of his contract, and we're not going to get what we really need (a near-elite 1C that can play 1C now) if we trade Kirk.
I would only be okay with trading Shatty if we have exhausted every other resource to acquire said 1C, and in that case we would likely be getting a 1C prospect. FA should be explored first, and we should see what Fabbs can do with another year, Lehtera with an offseason, and a new coach before dealing Shatty for a maybe 1C at the most.
Trading Shattenkirk in general is just a bad idea. We're not going to get great value because of his contract, and we're not going to get what we really need (a near-elite 1C that can play 1C now) if we trade Kirk.
I would only be okay with trading Shatty if we have exhausted every other resource to acquire said 1C, and in that case we would likely be getting a 1C prospect. FA should be explored first, and we should see what Fabbs can do with another year, Lehtera with an offseason, and a new coach before dealing Shatty for a maybe 1C at the most.
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The ship has sailed on the value of Shattenkirk returning a current #1C. Drouin (like it or not) fits your description of a #1C prospect. His ceiling is higher than Fabbri's and he is more likely to be a C at the NHL level.
As far as Carle, I brought it up because it has been rumored that Drouin and Carle may be forced by SY as a package. In my mind, these three players in a deal would be Shattenkirk for Drouin, Carle ($1.5M to $2M retained, leaving a $3.5M to $4M cap hit) and a reasonable "+" even if that is only a 2nd round pick or potential Shatty replacement like DeAngelo. I don't see how you can possibly expect to get more value than that for a guy who will be a UFA 12 months after the deal.
Vincenzo Arelliti
He Can't Play Center
That's the point - you can't expect much more. Cap would have to be returning the other way, which is why I wouldn't do this deal. We don't need 4M of dead space in the cap. Every other option should be looked at, and even then, I would say absolutely no to any deal involving Carle. We can acquire Drouin for a lot cheaper than Shattenkirk - rental or not. we have a 1st, and tons of d prospects to offer. We should not be trading Shattenkirk for maybes.
Thanks, had missed that.
Yeah, I'd want nothing to do with Carle at $5.5m.
If we were going to get Drouin, Carle at $3.5m and a conditional 2nd (1st if the Lightning extend Shattenkirk)... I wouldn't hate that deal. I'd trust we liked Drouin enough to think he'd hit his potential. Not sure that the Lightning would love having ~$9m tied up in Shattenkirk & Carle, even if only for 1 season.
Largely agree, but it depends on what is on the table. However, expecting to trade Shattenkirk without taking back salary might be being too optimistic.
I'd rather make sure we got one big asset in return, than end up with another Oshie like trade. Decent NHL'er, decent prospect and a 2nd is a big worry.
Vincenzo Arelliti
He Can't Play Center
I completely agree, which is why we shouldn't trade him. Pay him the money and watch him under a new coach before doing anything.
Which I'm fine with.
Parayko - Pietrangelo
Bouwmeester - Shattenkirk
I think that would be our best option; Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo seem to play better away from each other in recent seasons and we maximise Parayko's minutes.
But, keeping Shattenkirk takes away our only real high value trade chip. Which is fine if our options were restricted (like the Drouin trade), but Backes and Brouwer still need to be replaced. If we go down the road of keeping Shattenkirk, we need to really push to get a young player for a futures package. Even if we have to overpay.
I'm a bit confused as to why we need to give up so much to get Drouin. We may be able to get him for for less in a year. Please don't overvalue guys coming out of the Q. Really....he isn't that good. We found that out with Jaskin and Barbashev. We will be disappointed mortgaging a Shatty for him. I would rather move one of those two players (Jaskin or Barbashev) to get him.
- Jul 4, 2014
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I think you're painting with way too broad of a brush here. There are plenty of guys form the Q that have absolutely lived up to the hype around their numbers, just like there are plenty of players from the OHL and the WHL that have not.
Players with Drouin's combination of skills are pretty rare. His 80 or so games have shown that he needs to work on his shot at the NHL level, but he has rare speed, excellent hands (would probably be the 2nd or 3rd best passer on the Blues immediately) and by all accounts a very high hockey IQ. The only center prospect in the 2016 draft that has more upside than him is Matthews, and the Blues won't get a sniff of him. Making a reasonable deal for Drouin would be a huge win for the future of this team.
carter333167
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I personally don't want DA anywhere near Yzerman in a lateral trade.
The Boston offers for Shatty on the main board aren't bad. Again, I'd be happy with a good prospect and a first.
If we keep Shatty and move PArayko to the first line with Petro, I would prefer to see Petro trying to play the left side.
What is value for Sobotka + Jaskin <-> Bos?
Just want to unite them with Pastrnak.
Jaskin - Sobotka - Pastrnak
Is there possibility to resign Backes only for 1 more year and would he take it? Like bigger cap 8-9mill.$ Then let him walk.
What would be value for Shattery+Sobotka+Jaskin <-> Bos?
Or bring Pastrnak here?
Just want to unite them with Pastrnak.
Jaskin - Sobotka - Pastrnak
Is there possibility to resign Backes only for 1 more year and would he take it? Like bigger cap 8-9mill.$ Then let him walk.
What would be value for Shattery+Sobotka+Jaskin <-> Bos?
Or bring Pastrnak here?
pastarnak is worth fabbri to the bruins. they feel the same way about as we do about fabs.
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