Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

[ForumNamePending]

What league were the founders of the CCup associated with?

The NHL did next to nothing to get it off the ground. By the time the NHL gave its 'blessing', for half the proceeds, pretty much all the details and other agreements were already in place. Even then the NHL's president called the thing 'wasteful'.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

You'd actually prefer the talent pool to be smaller? Right, who needs players like Kopitar, Jagr, Lundqvist, Selänne, Chara, Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Rask and Zetterberg anyway?

Wow, I guess you missed the point on that one. Where did I say I preferred the talent pool to be smaller?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The NHL did next to nothing to get it off the ground. By the time the NHL gave its 'blessing', for half the proceeds, pretty much all the details and other agreements were already in place. Even then the NHL's president called the thing 'wasteful'.

Splitting hairs a bit here, it was started by a group of people from or associated with the NHL.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

North america does have a tendancy to only like sports that aren't popular anywhere else (basket excluded), maybe Canada wants to turn hockey into american football or baseball?

I realize your view of the "world" is probably limited to Europe but baseball is actually pretty popular in a lot of places outside of the USA. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more people playing baseball outside of NA than there are playing hockey outside of NA.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down there. Most of us are perfectly fine with most of the best players playing in the NHL, hockey is not a big enough sport to have the talent split, us wanting to see international tournaments we actually care about has nothing to do with jealousy. Most people here, Canadians included, are smart enough to realize that if the sport of hockey is supposed to survive outside of Canada (and I guess USA?) they would be beyond stupid to pull through with this. It's beyond short sighted, but why should Bettman or the owners care, when the sport of hockey died everywhere except Canada they will be retired.
The only country which wouldn't see a huge drop of interest would be Canada. No other country in the world cares even 10% as much about hockey as they do.

But hey, "why should Canada/NHL care what anyone thinks?", right?

Common misconception, but NHL participation in the Olympics does very little to grow the game. They are just too short and infrequent for that. Hockey was popular here before Europeans embraced the sport and it would be after as well if it came to that. The NHL is primarily concerned about the sports popularity in the USA, so not sure why you keep referring to canada instead.

 

[ForumNamePending]

Splitting hairs a bit here, it was started by a group of people from or associated with the NHL.

From what I have read it was started via negotiations headed by Alan Eagleson (NHLPA) between the IIHF and the various national feds that eventually lead to an agreement to hold the CC. The NHL involvement came later on when they decided they wouldn't squash the entire thing if they got a cut of the proceeds.

 

[Jussi]

I realize your view of the "world" is probably limited to Europe but baseball is actually pretty popular in a lot of places outside of the USA. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more people playing baseball outside of NA than there are playing hockey outside of NA.

Outside NA baseball is played mainly in some Central American countries and Japan and North Korea. It is a rarity elsewhere (yes, I know the Dutch have done well at WBC but to my knowledge it hasn't turned into media visibility). One could say it's the cricket of the non-commonwealth countries, it isn't popular at all in Europe.

 

[Jablkon]

Actually I would say most of these comments don't explain anything, other than that come from a place of resentment and jealousy.

Resentmen maybe but jealousy of what? To be honest I tried to explain my view a lot. Maybe somebody from other side should try to explain why is Canada cup better product than OG and what was so wrong with OG......Or more precisely explain NHL position, because this is what most people probably really can not understand.......if there is already anything to uderstand...

 

[patnyrnyg]

Common misconception, but NHL participation in the Olympics does very little to grow the game.

This has been pointed out by several people on this thread and a few others. There is no evidence to show the NHL going to the Olympics has done anything to benefit the game. Was there a spike in ratings? A spike in ticket sales? A spike in merchandise sales? A spike in youth participation following the Olympics? No to all.

The argument you get back is, "It doesn't have to just be about money. What about the kid in Finland who starts playing after seeing Teemu Selanne play for his country.." Or something about how Europeans won't want to play hockey if they cant go to the Olympics or they won't come to the NHL. Or course, it is nothing anyone can prove.

They will also argue that more people watch the Olympics than the Stanley Cup Finals and yap about the ratings of the Gold Medal game or a US-Canada game. What they fail to acknowledge is the Olympics bring out a sense of patriotism in people. Those who have no interest in hockey will watch because it is the Olympics. The NHL knew/knows this. They went to the Olympics BECAUSE of this concept. The HOPE was that the non-NHL fan would watch Team USA, develop an interest and start to follow their local team (or any team for that matter). However, it hasn't worked. You point this out and people post about how their friend started watching the NHL after seeing the Olympics. May or may not be true, but what definitely IS true is the number of people like these alleged friends are not enough for the NHL to think it is worth it.

 

[Jonimaus]

The argument you get back is, "It doesn't have to just be about money. What about the kid in Finland who starts playing after seeing Teemu Selanne play for his country.." Or something about how Europeans won't want to play hockey if they cant go to the Olympics or they won't come to the NHL. Or course, it is nothing anyone can prove.

ITT: Killing the international scene does nothing to a sport.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Maybe because NHL needs the Euro fans (and most importantly players) too?

Why does the NHL NEED the Euro fans? Have any info on how much money the NHL makes off broadcast/merchandise sales in Europe?

 

[Jonimaus]

Why does the NHL NEED the Euro fans? Have any info on how much money the NHL makes off broadcast/merchandise sales in Europe?

Enjoy having the NFL 2.0. Thank god I don't live in the north america and have to deal with this crap. When a league gets bigger than the international/regional federation, the sport is doomed anyways.

 

[patnyrnyg]

More arguments that do not make any sense. The NHL WISHES it could be the NFL 2.0. Again, what do you have to back-up the claims that the NHL NEEDS the Olympics. What proof do you have to show that European players will not come to the NHL if it means they can't play in the Olympics? Why would a player stay in Europe for a lot less money than come to the NHL? Yes, guys like Radulov and Kovalchuck went home. Kovalchuck AFTER he made a ton of money here. Yes, the KHL paid him well, but if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL, they will start getting paid less.

Besides, in NA, the NHL has always been bigger than IIHF and it hasn't hurt them at all.

 

[Jonimaus]

More arguments that do not make any sense. The NHL WISHES it could be the NFL 2.0. Again, what do you have to back-up the claims that the NHL NEEDS the Olympics. What proof do you have to show that European players will not come to the NHL if it means they can't play in the Olympics? Why would a player stay in Europe for a lot less money than come to the NHL? Yes, guys like Radulov and Kovalchuck went home. Kovalchuck AFTER he made a ton of money here. Yes, the KHL paid him well, but if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL, they will start getting paid less.

I really only ment NFL as in a spor that only exists in 1 (or maybe american football is played in Canada too?), but maybe I should have called it lacrosse league 2.0.

My point is not only that some players (especially russians) would opt not to go to the NHL, but that in 20 years, the sport itself will have a huge decline. Kids in europe at a young age does not grow up dreaming of playing in the NHL, they don't know what NHL is. They dream of representing the national team. If there's no national team people care about, a ton of them will just play another sport. The NHL dream doesn't come until much later.

In all honesty, I don't give a **** what the NHL needs or doesn't need. The quality will suffer, I shouldn't even have to argue with anyone about that. According to you the NHL is fine anyways, it's just sad what greed can do to a sport.

It's funny when the european football leagues which has players that earns 1/4th of an NHL teams entire salary cap, playing in more or less meaningless practice games mid-season.

 

[jekoh]

There is no evidence to show the NHL going to the Olympics has done anything to benefit the game. Was there a spike in ratings?

There was most definitely a spike in ratings during the Olympics, and a massive one at that.

 

[jekoh]

Yes, guys like Radulov and Kovalchuck went home. Kovalchuck AFTER he made a ton of money here. Yes, the KHL paid him well, but if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL, they will start getting paid less.

Yes obviously if the KHL becomes the best league in the world or close to that, KHL teams will not make any more money than they do now. Obviously.

 

[patnyrnyg]

There was most definitely a spike in ratings during the Olympics, and a massive one at that.

DURING the Olympics, Yes. The NHL was hoping it would carry over to AFTER the Olympics. That did not happen.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yes obviously if the KHL becomes the best league in the world or close to that, KHL teams will not make any more money than they do now. Obviously.

I'm 38, by the time the KHL becomes the best league in the world, I will be long dead.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I really only ment NFL as in a spor that only exists in 1 (or maybe american football is played in Canada too?), but maybe I should have called it lacrosse league 2.0.

My point is not only that some players (especially russians) would opt not to go to the NHL, but that in 20 years, the sport itself will have a huge decline. Kids in europe at a young age does not grow up dreaming of playing in the NHL, they don't know what NHL is. They dream of representing the national team. If there's no national team people care about, a ton of them will just play another sport. The NHL dream doesn't come until much later.

In all honesty, I don't give a **** what the NHL needs or doesn't need. The quality will suffer, I shouldn't even have to argue with anyone about that. According to you the NHL is fine anyways, it's just sad what greed can do to a sport.

It's funny when the european football leagues which has players that earns 1/4th of an NHL teams entire salary cap, playing in more or less meaningless practice games mid-season.

This is strictly your opinion and not something that can be backed up by any evidence.

Secondly, if European kids only play sports to dream about playing on the National team, then they are playing sports for the wrong reasons. The biggest deterrent to kids playing hockey is the cost to play. That won't change if the NHL sends players to the Olympics. If the next Ovechkin or Malkin wants to play in the KHL so he can play in the Olympics, that is their right. However, if the NHL isn't going as another pointed out, the prestige of the tournament will fade, as well.

I think what you would see is most of the best Europeans still coming to the NHL. The mid-tier guy who will get more ice time in the KHL will stay home. The Euro star after he has made his money in the NHL may opt to finish their careers in Europe and get a shot at the National team.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Also, I do not understand why Russians would be upset. If the NHL doesn't go, Russia might actually have a shot to win gold. Will be like the Iron curtain days. Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuck, beating up on Canadian overagers and US 25 years olds who can barely crack an AHL line-up. Then acting like they accomplished something.

 

[jekoh]

DURING the Olympics, Yes. The NHL was hoping it would carry over to AFTER the Olympics. That did not happen.

You were asking for a "benefit to the game", not to the NHL. Last time I checked, the NHL is not "the game".

I'm 38, by the time the KHL becomes the best league in the world, I will be long dead.

I was merely quoting you : "if all the Russian and Euro stars opt for the KHL". That would make it the best league in the world or close to that.

The idea that KHL stars would get paid less if the KHL significantly improved is ludicrous.

 

[Jonimaus]

This is strictly your opinion and not something that can be backed up by any evidence.

Secondly, if European kids only play sports to dream about playing on the National team, then they are playing sports for the wrong reasons. The biggest deterrent to kids playing hockey is the cost to play. That won't change if the NHL sends players to the Olympics. If the next Ovechkin or Malkin wants to play in the KHL so he can play in the Olympics, that is their right. However, if the NHL isn't going as another pointed out, the prestige of the tournament will fade, as well.

I think what you would see is most of the best Europeans still coming to the NHL. The mid-tier guy who will get more ice time in the KHL will stay home. The Euro star after he has made his money in the NHL may opt to finish their careers in Europe and get a shot at the National team.

Obviously the same prestige won't be there. If the world cup happens (without the euro all-star team in which case I don't even think the NA crowd will take it seriously), it'll be a weird case, since it will most likely be:

For the NA Crowd: World cup >>>>> olympics >> somewhere far in the distance WHC

For the EU crowd: Olympics >>>> WHC >>>>>>> somewhere far in the distance World cup.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Obviously the same prestige won't be there. If the world cup happens (without the euro all-star team in which case I don't even think the NA crowd will take it seriously), it'll be a weird case, since it will most likely be:

For the NA Crowd: World cup >>>>> olympics >> somewhere far in the distance WHC

For the EU crowd: Olympics >>>> WHC >>>>>>> somewhere far in the distance World cup.

Your kidding me. Only hardcore NHL believers think this. Majority of knowledgeable Hockey fans only want the Olympics if given a choice and today's youth only cares about the Olympics at least in Canada. In the US apart from the obvious connections no one cares about Hockey in the first place, so good luck trying to promote a tournament right after Rio 2016 and all the other events going on. This might fail even in Canada.

 

[Urbanskog]

Your kidding me. Only hardcore NHL believers think this. Majority of knowledgeable Hockey fans only want the Olympics if given a choice and today's youth only cares about the Olympics at least in Canada. In the US apart from the obvious connections no one cares about Hockey in the first place, so good luck trying to promote a tournament right after Rio 2016 and all the other events going on. This might fail even in Canada.

This, it's just a few NHL fanboys who favor the World Cup over the Olympics.

 

[Jonimaus]

Your kidding me. Only hardcore NHL believers think this. Majority of knowledgeable Hockey fans only want the Olympics if given a choice and today's youth only cares about the Olympics at least in Canada. In the US apart from the obvious connections no one cares about Hockey in the first place, so good luck trying to promote a tournament right after Rio 2016 and all the other events going on. This might fail even in Canada.

I ment this incase they would pull through with not sending NHL players to the olympics.

An olympics with no NHL players would still have 100x the prestige of a world cup with NHL players in Europe. Would that be the case in NA?