Olympics: Bettman hints NHL won't play in 2018 and 2022

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alce*

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Part of the problem is that there is no playoff structure that allows for upsets. Instead the league season consists of a double round-robin (home and away), in which 2-3 teams inevitably top the table.

It's always fun to read when NA fans write about nonexistent problems and unneeded solutions for European sports. :) All European football leagues have playoff tournaments. Some leagues even have several of those. They've called Cups and have much less prestige compared to Championships, exactly because Europeans think that round-robin system is much more fitted in deciding what's best team.
 

Canuckistani

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It's always fun to read when NA fans write about nonexistent problems and unneeded solutions for European sports. :) All European football leagues have playoff tournaments. Some leagues even have several of those. They've called Cups and have much less prestige compared to Championships, exactly because Europeans think that round-robin system is much more fitted in deciding what's best team.

Agreed. My point is there's a noticable lack of parity among Euro club teams.

All leagues have good and bad teams, but in NA sports these days you generally don't see the same 2-3 teams dominant for decades at a time.
 
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alce*

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Agreed. My point is there's a noticable lack of parity among Euro club teams.

It's true. Although it varies from country to country. For example in last 15 years in Russian Football there were five different champions and at least two strong contenders for championships from other teams. It's not much different from MLS, I think.
 

Urbanskog

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Feb 8, 2014
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Yeah, it is better to have the talent spread out over the leagues so the league has a few stacked teams and a bunch of teams that have the right to get destroyed by them.

Let's see in the German League, Bayern Munich has won 11 of the last 17 titles.
Since 1985 Real Madrid or Barcelona has won La Liga every year except for 5.

Since the Premiere League started in 92, only 5 different teams have won it with 1 team winning 13 titles.

In that same time frame, only 5 teams have won Serie A, with one team winning 8 and another winning 5 in a row and another winning 6.

Yeah, that sounds awesome.

FYI, there's this thing called a salary cap.
 

Jonimaus

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With soccer there are enough quality players in the world to make up several top-tier leagues.

Germany, England, Spain, Italy, Holland are probably the top-5, with the level falling off somewhat with Brazil, Argentina, France, Belgium, MLS etc.

With hockey you only have 7-8 countries that really play the game in any meaningful numbers, and even in those countries you have way more soccer players.

Kind of off-topic, but MLS isn't even close to the rank you mentioned them in. ;)
 

Canuckistani

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It's true. Although it varies from country to country. For example in last 15 years in Russian Football there were five different champions and at least two strong contenders for championships from other teams. It's not much different from MLS, I think.

MLS seems to be pretty even - 9 different winners in the league's 19 seasons (none with more than four titles).

Contrast this with the last 20 seasons in...

England: 5 winners - Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea combine for 17 titles
Germany: 6 winners - Bayern Munich, Dortmund with 16
Italy: 5 winners - Juventus, Inter, Milan with 17
Spain: 5 winners - Real Madrid, Barcelona with 15
Holland: 5 winners - Ajax, PSV with 17

North American sports these days have way more parity than they once did.

The last 20 seasons in....

NBA: 8 winners (Chicago and San Antonio with 5 each)
Baseball: 10 winners (NY Yankees 5, Boston 3, San Fran 3)
NHL: 11 winners (Detroit 4, NJ 3, Chicago/LA 2)
NFL: 13 winners (New England tops with 3)

Granted, a handful of dominant teams allows for the greater historical reputation that comes with dynasties (Montreal in the 70s, NY Islanders/Edmonton in the 80s) but it's gotta get dull for other other teams when the dynasty lasts more than a decade and every season is contested between the same 2-3 teams.
 

Jussi

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I don't even remember who Russia have played with. I have to check with wikipedia to see that we beat Finland 5-0. I mean I've seen all those matches, but they completely gone from my memory. I remember almost every WHC or Olympics in 90s, two lost to Finland in 1994 with same score 5-0 and 4-0 are still fresh to me, but I can't remember anything interesting about WC96. It kind of saying for itself how important or better say unimportant that tournament was to me.:laugh:

After two blowout wins against the Czechs (who mailed it in the whole tournament) and Germans, Finland played so poorly (Curt Lindström had already reached his peak as Team Finland coach and team performances were going down) that I've tried my best to forget what happened the rest of the tournament. Surprisingly my most vivid memory is from that Finland Russia quarterfinal, I think it was the last goal, Larionov set up Kovalev(?) on a breakaway with a brilliant waited throughpass. I don't remember much from the finals(it was at the dawn of the dead puck era), there wasn't really any emotional investment as a neutral. The two games USA and Canada played in Vancouver 2010 were much better hockey and memorable.
 

patnyrnyg

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It's true. Although it varies from country to country. For example in last 15 years in Russian Football there were five different champions and at least two strong contenders for championships from other teams. It's not much different from MLS, I think.

I was only talking about the good leagues.
 

Jussi

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So hockey is not the only sport you're clueless about. The russian football league is a very good one.

It's not that good. They pay well but the clubs don't do well in UCL for example. I think some of the Russian posters have analyzed in detail what's wrong with their league at the soccer board.
 

Jonimaus

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It's not that good. They pay well but the clubs don't do well in UCL for example. I think some of the Russian posters have analyzed in detail what's wrong with their league at the soccer board.

There is no team in the world which thinks drawing CSKA is a good draw. Obviously they won't win the champions league anytime soon, if ever, it's reserved for a few elite teams, but it's still a good league in the upper 2nd tier. It's lightyears ahead of MLS.
 

jekoh

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Yeah, it is better to have the talent spread out over the leagues so the league has a few stacked teams and a bunch of teams that have the right to get destroyed by them.
The lack of parity has nothing to do with the talent being spread over several leagues.

If anything it has gotten worse since the talent started to be concentrated in fewer leagues than ever before, specifically in the English league.
 

alce*

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I was only talking about the good leagues.

Yes, and it should be important for me because of what exactly? Have I ever replied to you or mentioned your words in any of my posts? Why do you even bother to explain me of what were you talking about? Because I can't imagine right now anything that could be less interesting for me than your opinion.
 
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garbageteam

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It would be so bush league to exclude the Swiss who have finally arrived to hang with any of the top teams, nevermind Slovakia who were inches away from taking the gold medalists of 2010 and 2014 to OT and has been part of a "big 7" nation of international hockey almost since their inception.

If they're too lazy to hold a qualification tournament (which is really the only legitimate way), they should just take the top 8 ranked nations on the IIHF rankings. If Latvia or Norway overtakes the Swiss or Slovakia in the next WHC, then let them take their place.
 

Djp

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A few options....

Nhl follows soccer with an age limit for the Olympics. Something like 23 and under.

If the Olympics aren't in the top 9 countries ( top 7, Switzerland and Germany) the nhl will not take a break and instead move it to late September/early October in the host country.

16 team tourney. Top 8 get a bye. Bottom 8 have a preliminary round with top 4 advancing.
 

jekoh

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A few options....

If the Olympics aren't in the top 9 countries ( top 7, Switzerland and Germany) the nhl will not take a break and instead move it to late September/early October in the host country.
Are you seriously suggesting the Olympic tournament would not be played during the actual Olympics because of the decision of one league? :huh:

If you are, that's laughable.
 

Jussi

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A few options....

Nhl follows soccer with an age limit for the Olympics. Something like 23 and under.

If the Olympics aren't in the top 9 countries ( top 7, Switzerland and Germany) the nhl will not take a break and instead move it to late September/early October in the host country.

16 team tourney. Top 8 get a bye. Bottom 8 have a preliminary round with top 4 advancing.

NHL can't force that and the IOC nor IIHF have no reason to do it either. The latter two would be fine with European pros in that case.
 

Forsberg21Sakic19

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You know what's the most laughable part of all of this? The NHL claims about two years ago that they are looking at strongly revamping the international calendar for ice hockey and that global growth for the game is a top initiative. They supposedly put lots of time and effort in figuring out how they want to do this, how to "grow the game", and then come out with this Mickey Mouse ridiculous format. So they want to grow the game by making it the laughingstock of the sports world?

And the supposed reason for the two "other teams" being included as opposed to two nations is that they are worried about blowouts? Did nobody see Germany annihilate Brazil in the World Cup semis this year? Blowouts happen. While only Switzerland can make any claim to have joined the "elite" (i.e. medal contending nations) of international ice hockey recently, the tier below them has expanded and improved significantly. So with a straight face you're going to tell me that Belarus, Latvia, Denmark, Norway, Germany, and France can't compete on any level with the Top 8? Completely absurd. Will any of these 6 win a gold medal in the next decade, I doubt it. But you can't tell me they won't at least pull a few upsets and add some drama and parity to the international game, because they will.

Just look at the way Denmark has improved over the past decade. They now have 6-7 international caliber forwards and a proven international caliber goaltender. They might be struggling to develop some defensemen (Philip Larsen and the Lauridsen brothers just aren't going to cut it) but with all of their top level talent on offer (which for the record they have not had at any tournament), Denmark is not a team I'd take lightly.

Unfortunately the central part of this argument revolves around motivation. What is the NHL's motivation? What is the IIHF's? The NHL wants to make money for itself and have the best players in the world represented in its league and identified with its league. There is nothing wrong with that, as all leagues are primarily self-interest driven. The IIHF wants to evangelize and spread the game of ice hockey. However, the NHL must face the reality that the global marketplace for top-level hockey consumption has changed. The KHL, for all of its imperfections, is a high quality league that draws world-class talent. The top 5 Euro leagues (SHL, Liiga, DEL, NLA, CZE Extraliga) all have a high-level of play and are complemented by top clubs in the EBEL, Slovak league and others. The Champions Hockey League has the potential to create another high-level alternative. There are more high-level hockey players in the world than ever before, and personally I believe there is more appetite for ice hockey around the world than ever before. The NHL needs to recognize that if it wants to be competitive "globally" as it has stated is it's desire, it will need to be a part of the evolving landscape of international ice hockey and not an impediment to it.

The hockey world is large enough for three large players on the club front (NHL, KHL, CHL) to succeed. But in order to succeed they can't be mutually exclusive from each other. Cooperation grows our game and will see everyone succeed. Lack of it could render it irrelevant on the global stage.
 

ebis

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Good luck trying to tell guys like Ovi that they can't go to the Olympics.

It would be a stupid move by NHL and I can see many Euros (including some of the top ones) leaving for KHL because of this.
 

Fuzzy Bunny

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Good luck trying to tell guys like Ovi that they can't go to the Olympics.

It would be a stupid move by NHL and I can see many Euros (including some of the top ones) leaving for KHL because of this.


Ovi was dedicated to the Sochi Olympics, I'm unsure if that will carry over into the next two Olympics since they will be outside of traditional NHL/hockey markets. How many really care about going to South Korea?
 

ebis

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Ovi was dedicated to the Sochi Olympics, I'm unsure if that will carry over into the next two Olympics since they will be outside of traditional NHL/hockey markets. How many really care about going to South Korea?

North Americans really underestimate how important international hockey (and especially Olympic hockey) is for Euro players. It doesn't matter that it's South Korea, what matters is that it's the Olympics.
 

Urbanskog

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Ovi was dedicated to the Sochi Olympics, I'm unsure if that will carry over into the next two Olympics since they will be outside of traditional NHL/hockey markets. How many really care about going to South Korea?

Why would the players care whether the Olympics are held in South Korea, Botswana or Russia?

The Olympics are the Olympics.
 

Jonimaus

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Ovi was dedicated to the Sochi Olympics, I'm unsure if that will carry over into the next two Olympics since they will be outside of traditional NHL/hockey markets. How many really care about going to South Korea?

Most of the Swedish roster, Lundqvist especially outspoken about it, really wants to go.
 
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