Confirmed with Link: Berube out, Bannister in

[joe galiba]

Yes.

Why?

I'll pull-quote it for you:

I can’t believe that anyone could put up those last three rosters that we played, and our roster, and think that we should lose all three of those games.

He's out of touch or delusional. Fire him.

anyone looking at the rosters of Columbus, the Hawks, and the Wings without several of their top players and then looks at the Blues roster and says yup, those are for sure three losses is being the delusional one

 

[Ted Hoffman]

On paper, are those rosters better? No, maybe not.

Unfortunately, games aren't played on paper - and those 3 teams, whether it's good or bad (or for 2 of them, really bad), play as a team night in and night out. This team? What's the term I'm looking for, circa a press conference from ... 2017 I think? Oh, yeah ... independent contractors. There's a bunch of independent contractors on this team (again), and opponents that play as a team - even if that team isn't particularly good - are going to beat a bunch of independent contractors more often than not.

 

[ezcreepin]

I've seen worse rosters than this go to the second round and better rosters than this miss the playoffs year after year. At some point it's possible that it IS the coach, and based on the play the last 3 years, it feels like this team has flipped hard on controlling the pace of the game. I forget who said it here but it was such an apt comparison for the style we used to play in the 2010s. Currently we are giving up way more shots than we take, the defense is atrocious, we aren't out-possessing other teams, but in the 2010s this team consistently out shot, out defended, and out corsi'd the f*** out of the league. It was the reason why we were like top 5 year in and year out, and honestly I don't know if those rosters were even super talented.

We would harp on these guys consistently about not shooting above the pads and our top center was Backes (not that he wasn't a great player). I cant even begin to speculate where the issues are coming from. From a strategy standpoint though, it's clear that whatever Berube is trying to get these guys to do doesn't work well. And frankly that is on Armstrong for not building a team that is in sync with Berube. In these cases though, if you're trying to shift your team dynamic and play style to suit the league better, then the two options you have are to trade your players you've assembled or fire the coach. Armstrong can't really do much about the former right now, so the only option was to fire Berube, which I think in some respects was warranted.

 

[Xerloris]

Just reading the chicken little sky is falling hot takes around here is insane. Our roster may not be cup caliber but we sure as f*** should be more consistent and steady than we are and that's on the coaching. Our PP should be at least AT LEAST 15% and that's on coaching. We never make adjustments during games. We never bench the players that actually deserve it. Kyrou spent all of last year putting out less effort than Vrana this year but he kissed Berube's ass properly so he was never benched. Berube was not expected to make this roster a championship team but he as expected to not let them embarrass the fans. f*** how many games are you going to do the same exact "plan" that never f***ing works and never come up with something new? Try different shit? Like last year, 15 or 20 games of ROR and Kyrou sucking total ass together before he broke them up? The fans knew that combo was failure 3 games in but it takes the coach 15+ games pissing away a good portion of the season? That's not on the f***ing GM, that's the f***ing coach.

 

[Blueston]

I've seen worse rosters than this go to the second round and better rosters than this miss the playoffs year after year. At some point it's possible that it IS the coach, and based on the play the last 3 years, it feels like this team has flipped hard on controlling the pace of the game. I forget who said it here but it was such an apt comparison for the style we used to play in the 2010s. Currently we are giving up way more shots than we take, the defense is atrocious, we aren't out-possessing other teams, but in the 2010s this team consistently out shot, out defended, and out corsi'd the f*** out of the league. It was the reason why we were like top 5 year in and year out, and honestly I don't know if those rosters were even super talented.

We would harp on these guys consistently about not shooting above the pads and our top center was Backes (not that he wasn't a great player). I cant even begin to speculate where the issues are coming from. From a strategy standpoint though, it's clear that whatever Berube is trying to get these guys to do doesn't work well. And frankly that is on Armstrong for not building a team that is in sync with Berube. In these cases though, if you're trying to shift your team dynamic and play style to suit the league better, then the two options you have are to trade your players you've assembled or fire the coach. Armstrong can't really do much about the former right now, so the only option was to fire Berube, which I think in some respects was warranted.

i think part of the problem is that after losing so much talent last few years (to age and ufa and whatever, not arguing whether we should have kept player x) we have started restocking system with exciting prospects but they aren't ready. neighbours is only kid who is helping us now, maybe hofer or torpo if we want to be generous. so how do we ice team that doesn't look like last year's sharks or ducks? we added guys like vrana and kap and blais and sunny and hayes as short term bandaids to bridge that.

so when we look at roster, we have bunch of spare parts that don't fit together and team that it's only identity is inconsistency. now all of this isn't necessarily a catastrophe. if we hit on good number of the draft picks and don't try to trade for quick fixes, you can see the next team taking shape off in the future- a group with thomas, dvo, snuggy, stenberg, kaskimaki, pekarcik, neighbours, bolduc, and dean- if you squint looks a lot like our classic hitch or early berube teams. bigger guys who play hard game mixed in with skill guys who can play heavy game. that seems to be the vision that we are trying to build. and yes, we are still missing at least 1 and likely 2 top 4 d to play with that group, but my point isn't that we are set up it's that there does seem to be a plan in place for what we are building towards.

all that said, IF we assume the above is generally correct (that there is a longer-term vision and we just have some crap on roster now until the kids are ready to take their proscribed roles), then it only reinforces idea that berube shouldn't have been axed. we gave him the kinda crap you give contestants on stupid cable cooking shows (you have a roll of cookie dough, a lime, a tomato, and groud turkey- please prepare a gourmet dinner for us)- and then wondered why he kept serving us such crap half the time.

 

[Xerloris]

So how would they go about telling Army to go to Hell? Yeah, not playing well or deciding when to play. I mean if you could answer what they could do in their role as a professional hockey player that would be more than that or would address it better to ownership, I'd love to hear it.

By the way, It's that dumb a take to not take a moment and think that, in all business, that sh*t flows downhill? It's easy to blame a HC for something the GM is instituting, policy they're setting or other things. The HC just happens to be in the room with them and that doesn't always mean that they're the problem.

Chief doesn't move players in or out, but Army does. Obviously, something happened that created the rumor (rumor because no one has concrete facts about it save what iirc Chief said) that the team picks and chooses what days to play. If that's true and Army fired Chief, bringing in another coach isn't going to fix that, it actually might make it worse.

Those individual players might just not want to play on a team doing that bad, but its doing that bad because those players aren't showing up and playing. The logic on that just doesn't wash. If they're disgruntled, it's not at Chief but at the way the team is being ran and Chief was the victim of that.

Lol obviously getting their supposed beloved coach fired sure showed Army! Stick it to the man! Yes, it's just as dumb when you say it.

i think part of the problem is that after losing so much talent last few years (to age and ufa and whatever, not arguing whether we should have kept player x) we have started restocking system with exciting prospects but they aren't ready. neighbours is only kid who is helping us now, maybe hofer or torpo if we want to be generous. so how do we ice team that doesn't look like last year's sharks or ducks? we added guys like vrana and kap and blais and sunny and hayes as short term bandaids to bridge that.

so when we look at roster, we have bunch of spare parts that don't fit together and team that it's only identity is inconsistency. now all of this isn't necessarily a catastrophe. if we hit on good number of the draft picks and don't try to trade for quick fixes, you can see the next team taking shape off in the future- a group with thomas, dvo, snuggy, stenberg, kaskimaki, pekarcik, neighbours, bolduc, and dean- if you squint looks a lot like our classic hitch or early berube teams. bigger guys who play hard game mixed in with skill guys who can play heavy game. that seems to be the vision that we are trying to build. and yes, we are still missing at least 1 and likely 2 top 4 d to play with that group, but my point isn't that we are set up it's that there does seem to be a plan in place for what we are building towards.

all that said, IF we assume the above is generally correct (that there is a longer-term vision and we just have some crap on roster now until the kids are ready to take their proscribed roles), then it only reinforces idea that berube shouldn't have been axed. we gave him the kinda crap you give contestants on stupid cable cooking shows (you have a roll of cookie dough, a lime, a tomato, and groud turkey- please prepare a gourmet dinner for us)- and then wondered why he kept serving us such crap half the time.

The ingredients were fine but he used to much SALT.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Lol obviously getting their supposed beloved coach fired sure showed Army! Stick it to the man! Yes, it's just as dumb when you say it.

Berube was beloved by the 2019 team. Most of those folks are long gone and the room has definitely changed. You like to call people dumb, you should have that checked.

 

[Xerloris]

Berube was beloved by the 2019 team. Most of those folks are long gone and the room has definitely changed. You like to call people dumb, you should have that checked.

So then he didn't have the room and was unable to coach properly?

 

[GoldenSeal]

So then he didn't have the room and was unable to coach properly?

Not having the room and not being able to coach properly are two different things. Army sent folks in to fill holes, doesn't mean they actually fit the 'holes' the team had or fit into the system that Chief ran. You can't just give a HC a bunch of parts you threw together, say make it work and have it work. Army's supposed to be an architect as GM and obviously he and Chief have differing opinions on how the team should be ran and the needs of the team. Sure, it could be Chief pissing off the group, but which makes more sense, the GM not giving a damn and loading the roster with what he can find or Chief being a bad coach?

Chief took a roster and a rookie goaltender and brought home a Cup. Mind, on most forums, the idea at the time of running a rookie, unproven netminder, was considered insane, but no one cared because we weren't supposed to go as far as we did. No one expected that, not even Army. The season was considered lost. But we won and suddenly this is all some grand plan that Army built and that's bullshit.

If you want to tell me that Chief isn't the right person for a locker room of folks that he says plays when they feel like it, what should he do? He can't fire them, he can't trade them and he can't go against the GM. Players need to show up and if they don't or don't give a damn, what does Chief do? That's a pretty unfair place to put him in that instance and say he can't coach properly, especially with our only Stanley Cup with him as our HC. It's kind of ridiculous.

Saying all of that, I really like his replacement, so we'll see if it's an issue with Chief or if the locker room has said screw it.

 

[Xerloris]

Not having the room and not being able to coach properly are two different things. Army sent folks in to fill holes, doesn't mean they actually fit the 'holes' the team had or fit into the system that Chief ran. You can't just give a HC a bunch of parts you threw together, say make it work and have it work. Army's supposed to be an architect as GM and obviously he and Chief have differing opinions on how the team should be ran and the needs of the team. Sure, it could be Chief pissing off the group, but which makes more sense, the GM not giving a damn and loading the roster with what he can find or Chief being a bad coach?

Chief took a roster and a rookie goaltender and brought home a Cup. Mind, on most forums, the idea at the time of running a rookie, unproven netminder, was considered insane, but no one cared because we weren't supposed to go as far as we did. No one expected that, not even Army. The season was considered lost. But we won and suddenly this is all some grand plan that Army built and that's bullshit.

If you want to tell me that Chief isn't the right person for a locker room of folks that he says plays when they feel like it, what should he do? He can't fire them, he can't trade them and he can't go against the GM. Players need to show up and if they don't or don't give a damn, what does Chief do? That's a pretty unfair place to put him in that instance and say he can't coach properly, especially with our only Stanley Cup with him as our HC. It's kind of ridiculous.

Saying all of that, I really like his replacement, so we'll see if it's an issue with Chief or if the locker room has said screw it.

No shit he had to get a bunch of bandaids to plug holes or would you prefer he make a bunch of trades and give up assets to get players to plug holes and then not have roster space for our kids when they're ready? Snuggy, Dvorski, etc. When they're ready we have to have space and not be tied down to long term players but you seem to think it's wrong to get bandaid gap fillers. What the f*** would you do then? Fill up the team with long contracts so we have no room for kids we're excited about?

Chief took a really f***ing good team and a goalie that went on an absurd run with help from Larry Robinson to fix the Defense to a cup.

Maybe chief should hold those players accountable? Seems like the only one he wanted to single out was Vrana. Why not any of the other players he claimed would just not play when ever they felt like it?

 

[ezcreepin]

i think part of the problem is that after losing so much talent last few years (to age and ufa and whatever, not arguing whether we should have kept player x) we have started restocking system with exciting prospects but they aren't ready. neighbours is only kid who is helping us now, maybe hofer or torpo if we want to be generous. so how do we ice team that doesn't look like last year's sharks or ducks? we added guys like vrana and kap and blais and sunny and hayes as short term bandaids to bridge that.

so when we look at roster, we have bunch of spare parts that don't fit together and team that it's only identity is inconsistency. now all of this isn't necessarily a catastrophe. if we hit on good number of the draft picks and don't try to trade for quick fixes, you can see the next team taking shape off in the future- a group with thomas, dvo, snuggy, stenberg, kaskimaki, pekarcik, neighbours, bolduc, and dean- if you squint looks a lot like our classic hitch or early berube teams. bigger guys who play hard game mixed in with skill guys who can play heavy game. that seems to be the vision that we are trying to build. and yes, we are still missing at least 1 and likely 2 top 4 d to play with that group, but my point isn't that we are set up it's that there does seem to be a plan in place for what we are building towards.

all that said, IF we assume the above is generally correct (that there is a longer-term vision and we just have some crap on roster now until the kids are ready to take their proscribed roles), then it only reinforces idea that berube shouldn't have been axed. we gave him the kinda crap you give contestants on stupid cable cooking shows (you have a roll of cookie dough, a lime, a tomato, and groud turkey- please prepare a gourmet dinner for us)- and then wondered why he kept serving us such crap half the time.

Not that I don't agree about the new wave coming in and being stylistically what the Blues are looking for, but I don't find competitive teams like Washington, NYI, or Philly to be particularly well built teams. They have pieces I like, but the teams aren't assembled in a way where I'm like "holy shit they're stacked." They all have one goaltender performing well (NY has two), but if you asked me to pick any roster of Blues, Caps, Isle, and Flyers, I'd be indifferent about it. I sort of poo poo the idea that this team is doing badly because it's a bunch of bandaid solutions. The fact is that teams 2-3 years ago, hell even a year ago were absolutely capable of being really good teams provided the right structure. The year after covid where we played out of our minds was an anomaly as we outscored every problem we had, but the defense has been consistently shit since the 2020 season.

 

[GoldenSeal]

No shit he had to get a bunch of bandaids to plug holes or would you prefer he make a bunch of trades and give up assets to get players to plug holes and then not have roster space for our kids when they're ready? Snuggy, Dvorski, etc. When they're ready we have to have space and not be tied down to long term players but you seem to think it's wrong to get bandaid gap fillers. What the f*** would you do then? Fill up the team with long contracts so we have no room for kids we're excited about?

Chief took a really f***ing good team and a goalie that went on an absurd run with help from Larry Robinson to fix the Defense to a cup.

Maybe chief should hold those players accountable? Seems like the only one he wanted to single out was Vrana. Why not any of the other players he claimed would just not play when ever they felt like it?

We did quite a bit of that already, thanks Army. Spent to the hilt and this team is what the youngsters will be walking into.

 

[Reality Czech]

Here’s the thing: Army is a businessman and I don’t believe him. If the rumors are true that the locker room picks and choose what games to show up in, that might be a middle finger to upper management, not Berube.

If that's the case then it says more about the players than management. I play in a meaningless men's league and hate losing games. If someone is making millions while giving less than 100% effort then I question that person's character. As Binner said, I don't want that person on my team.

Regarding his replacement, I wonder what Coach Q is up to these days.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

What is Q up to?

I’m tired of seeing young guys leave here and succeed. Walman Mikkola, what are we doing wrong?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Our PP should be at least AT LEAST 15% and that's on coaching.

A 15% power play means about ... 7 more goals. That's worth about a win and change, 2 wins max. And it's still means a power play that's ranked 25th in the league, which ... looking at this roster, yeah, that feels right. By the same argument, our PK shouldn't have 8 SH goals. Putting that back a little, that offset a fraction of that win gained on the PP.

I don't think a net win saves Berube. It sure as hell doesn't fix this team's maddening inconsistency at even strength. where we're 24th in the league at -9. But, maybe we're at the point where we just need something to point to so we can feel good and it makes it easier to ignore the problems that still exist.

What is Q up to?

I’m tired of seeing young guys leave here and succeed. Walman Mikkola, what are we doing wrong?

It's like the pre-2019 era and we're back to complaining about all the guys who aren't here and pretending what they're doing elsewhere is what they'd be doing here, reality of what they were when here be damned. Hell, let's complain about losing Husso and Fabbri and Dunn while we're at it.

 

[Blueston]

What is Q up to?

I’m tired of seeing young guys leave here and succeed. Walman Mikkola, what are we doing wrong?

i want no part of Q. He was great coach in terms of winning hockey games, but his actions throughout Hawks abuse case were abhorrent. Unless and until he makes serious effort at reckon with his culpability and owns up to his role, he should never coach in NHL again.

 

[joe galiba]

one of my brothers played guard on the football team his junior year at a local high school, they had a coach who was coaching in his 30th year, very accomplished
their offense got stuffed bad by one of their rivals, and my brother was steaming after the game
my brother told us that based upon what formation they were in and how they shifted, the defense was calling out what their play was before they could even run it
the players told the coaches and, instead of the coaches adjusting, they were told it was their fault, they need to try harder
that is how you lose your players

 

[LogosBlue]

A 15% power play means about ... 7 more goals. That's worth about a win and change, 2 wins max. And it's still means a power play that's ranked 25th in the league, which ... looking at this roster, yeah, that feels right. By the same argument, our PK shouldn't have 8 SH goals. Putting that back a little, that offset a fraction of that win gained on the PP.

I don't think a net win saves Berube. It sure as hell doesn't fix this team's maddening inconsistency at even strength. where we're 24th in the league at -9. But, maybe we're at the point where we just need something to point to so we can feel good and it makes it easier to ignore the problems that still exist.


It's like the pre-2019 era and we're back to complaining about all the guys who aren't here and pretending what they're doing elsewhere is what they'd be doing here, reality of what they were when here be damned. Hell, let's complain about losing Husso and Fabbri and Dunn while we're at it.

Ok. Letting Dunn get picked by an expansion team was completely stupid. It kinda make you say, "What in the heck were you thinking DA?" A young really good cup winning D that could have been cost controlled for quite a while and you let him get picked for nothing. Braindead move from a GM.
If you wanna know why our D sucks now, here is example #1A.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Ok. Letting Dunn get picked by an expansion team was completely stupid. It kinda make you say, "What in the heck were you thinking DA?" A young really good cup winning D that could have been cost controlled for quite a while and you let him get picked for nothing. Braindead move from a GM.
If you wanna know why our D sucks now, here is example #1A.

Dunn leaving has been explained about as often as Pietrangelo leaving has been discussed. And no one was missing Dunn his first season in Seattle when he was still tragic defensively.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Would Buchnevich be available as a trade asset?

 

[LogosBlue]

Dunn leaving has been explained about as often as Pietrangelo leaving has been discussed. And no one was missing Dunn his first season in Seattle when he was still tragic defensively.

Oh, well that explains it really well.....

It's DA's job to prognosticate the futures of players and manage the roster accordingly. It's pretty clear that his barometer is off in that regard. He protected Krug and Faulk and not Dunn. Let that sink in now after the fact.

Same with Petro since you brought it BACK up. He brought in Faulk as an 'insurance' and 'leverage' policy to work Petro on a deal. Not cool. I might have stiff armed DA if i was Petro too.

Same with Chuckie Sideburns. Completely braindead to let him walk. He would have signed with us for peanuts and he's a late bloomer. Anyone with eyes could see he was maturing into a really good goalie. Not DA.

MSN

The sad thing is, it all comes back around to no loyalty for hard working, team first players. When you show no loyalty, you get no loyalty (which is why you see the roster of players who don't give a crap now). In life, you always get what you give.

 

[ezcreepin]

Ok. Letting Dunn get picked by an expansion team was completely stupid. It kinda make you say, "What in the heck were you thinking DA?" A young really good cup winning D that could have been cost controlled for quite a while and you let him get picked for nothing. Braindead move from a GM.
If you wanna know why our D sucks now, here is example #1A.

Nah I'm not going to let people co-op this narrative that it was wholly stupid that we left Dunn open for the expansion draft. Dunn was and had been a hugely sheltered defenseman on the Blues who had consistently been making mistakes year in and year out. He would have amazing stretches where you thought he really figured it out, and then he would repeat the cycle again. I haven't sifted through all of the advanced metrics yet on Krug and Dunn, but hockey reference stats show them to be nearly on par with each other yet Krug pretty handily outscored him despite being on a new team. Armstrong had already committed to Krug and they both looked like similar players with Krug having the edge.

The only thing you have towards your argument is that Dunn was cost controlled and younger. He hadn't proved he could be a 1st pairing defenseman, and I don't even know if he proved he could lead a 2nd pair. All that was there was potential, and he managed to hit that potential offensively, though I don't even know if his defense has improved significantly over Krug. The only thing we can talk about regarding Dunn is a hypothetical scenario about whether we would've kept him or signed him to 7.35 mil because if you do that, then you're in the same spot you're in now.

Also just want to point out that there were plenty of good players available including Tarasenko, Walman, Husso, and Mikkola. Any one of those players go on to have a season like Dunn did last year and we're back at it again complaining about why they didn't protect that player during the expansion draft.

 

[Blueston]

Would Buchnevich be available as a trade asset?

i think so, but he won't come cheap. we can deal him for 1st + prospect next year as rental, so would need to be worth our while to bail a year early on him.

 

[Xerloris]

one of my brothers played guard on the football team his junior year at a local high school, they had a coach who was coaching in his 30th year, very accomplished
their offense got stuffed bad by one of their rivals, and my brother was steaming after the game
my brother told us that based upon what formation they were in and how they shifted, the defense was calling out what their play was before they could even run it
the players told the coaches and, instead of the coaches adjusting, they were told it was their fault, they need to try harder
that is how you lose your players

This about sums it up perfectly. Every game all we ever heard from Berube was they need to work harder. Yet no talk of the coaches needing to be better and come up with better game plans.

Same with Petro since you brought it BACK up. He brought in Faulk as an 'insurance' and 'leverage' policy to work Petro on a deal. Not cool. I might have stiff armed DA if i was Petro too.

Did you ever consider the posibility that Faulk was traded for simply because he was a great pick up for a cheap price or MAYBE Doug knew Petro didn't want to stay here?

Same with Chuckie Sideburns. Completely braindead to let him walk. He would have signed with us for peanuts and he's a late bloomer. Anyone with eyes could see he was maturing into a really good goalie. Not DA.

Ah yes, f*** doug for not keeping a career AHL goalie that's f***ing old and blocking Hofer from coming up to break into the NHL.

The sad thing is, it all comes back around to no loyalty for hard working, team first players. When you show no loyalty, you get no loyalty (which is why you see the roster of players who don't give a crap now). In life, you always get what you give.

How about the loyalty Doug shows players when he goes out of his way to accommodate requests for trades? Most recently Bortz and then Bortz turning around and talking about how respectful and classy Doug is and how he cares for his players. No, none of that is true, the only truth is Doug has no loyalty because he didn't do what my hindsight says he should have done. f***ing clown shit around here.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Elliote needs a comb