Confirmed with Link: Berube out, Bannister in

[AjaxManifesto]

My 2 cents is that DA has undervalued / underpaid for character and discounted chemistry. He waived it off as un-business-like sentimentality. DA IMO would trade his own mother if he thought it created a better team on paper and gained him accolades from other GMs for being a shrewed negotiator.

DP57
ROR

Come to mind.

25 looks great on paper, but he doesn't impress me as a leader or a guy who would put the team on his shoulders to win a game.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I love sentimentality, which is probably why this is the most emotional anyone's ever seen me posting over the Berube firing, but I think having either of those players on multi-year deals puts us in an even worse situation than we are right now.

 

[TheOrganist]

One thought that's with me this morning - OK, I've got a lot of thoughts, you all might hear a bunch of them - but one jumped out when I woke up: as much as Armstrong has placed faith in Steve Ott, talked glowingly about what a great coach he is, talked about how Ott could be a future head coach in the league and he really doesn't want to lose Ott but would be really happy for him because of what a great coach he is and he really connects with the players, on and on, ....

Why didn't Ott get the interim tag? If Ott is this really great coach, even if he's responsible for the PP (which then, why isn't anyone demanding he get shitcanned with Berube - again, thoughts we'll get to later), and he's been there as long as Berube, what does it say about Ott's future with the organization when the guy running Springfield, who's never coached at the NHL level, only been in the organization a few years, gets tabbed to be the #1 guy behind the bench instead?

I also found that a little odd and a bit damning to Ott's future in STL...especially b/c there are some important prospects in the farm this year and you would think they would rather have some continuity in the AHL instead of bringing up a guy to try and salvage a mess at the NHL level.

 

[joe galiba]

A coach deserved to be fired just based on our atrocious powerplay alone.

and while we no longer have enough top end guys to have two great power play units, we have plenty of guys who have been successful on the power play in the past, there is just no excuse

 

[PocketNines]

Happy for Berube, Armstrong finally freed him up to go coach winners to championships. Had to be killing him for years with this Kyrou shit.

 

[Oberyn]

The Blues roster construction is just a mishmash of players with no identity. While I don't think Berube should be taking the full brunt of the fall, there really has been no improvement in our transition play for a while now. Additionally, we get outshot more often that not. Something was clearly not getting through from Berube to the players, so a dismissal was inevitable. Sad to see him go and l'll always have fond memories of him.

 

[TheDizee]

My 2 cents is that DA has undervalued / underpaid for character and discounted chemistry and waived it off as un-business sentimentality.

DP57
ROR

Come to mind.

chuckie also

 

[Ted Hoffman]

"Berube wasn't an X's and O's kind of coach."

What was he doing in 2019 and the 2020 regular season? Our entire style of play in that time relied heavily on X's and O's and guys doing their jobs in that system. That required someone to know their X's and O's, because we played a system with a group of guys that was all X's and O's. Was that all Ott, Van Ryn, the training staff, the beer guy up in 314?

For all the praises about the 2021-22 power play and Jim Montgomery's glorious work with it, we still had 235 goals for at even strength (4th best in the league). OK, sure - 199 ESGA was 17th, not great, but we know Binnington was terrible for some of that. That still required someone to be coaching X's and O's. Was Montgomery doing all that, too?

Every time I hear well, Berube wasn't an X's and O's kind of coach ... do you think his plan was "guys, go skate around aimlessly and do something with the puck, and hit someone I guess, and some other shit like that?" All the X's and O's coaching didn't cause guys to just f*** up on basic defensive plays, f*** up clearing the zone repeatedly, f*** up simple passes, stare at the puck and be oblivious to the opposing guy coming down the side for a cross-ice, back-door tap-in, ... all the shit we've seen over the last season and change.

Maybe the problem isn't coaching. Maybe it's the guys in the locker room not doing what they've been taught to do, told to do repeatedly, and and .... you know what, it's probably still Pietrangelo's fault for being such a shitty leader that it's caused all the leaders since to not be able to do their part. Asshole.

chuckie also

Stop. This is as bad as all the people who kept whining over not keeping career backup Roloson because he had a fantastic year at Worcester while Brent Johnson was carrying this team into the WCF, or not keeping (and playing) Bishop though he'd been really mediocre until 2011 when he finally got his shit together ... in the minors, while Elliott was on an all-time tear in net as the Blues were playing for the 1-seed in the West.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

The Blues roster construction is just a mishmash of players with no identity. While I don't think Berube should be taking the full brunt of the fall, there really has been no improvement in our transition play for a while now. Additionally, we get outshot more often that not. Something was clearly not getting through from Berube to the players, so a dismissal was inevitable. Sad to see him go and l'll always have fond memories of him.

When the team doesn't respond to the leader, the leader is the first to go. It's unfortunate, but I won't cry when we start moving players. They sealed their own fates now that Chief is gone.

This team pays lip service to character and loyalty. DA speaks well on both of these, but his hard edged business moves have undermined his lip service. In a way, it's good to see this get exposed.

Vegas isn't loyal to anyone. They are like a slot machine. It has worked for them, but as a fan it turns me off. The Blues (and much of the rest of the NHL) are becoming just another entertainment business. Like a movie studio creating one sequel after another with zero heart, zero identity, zero fan buy-in. Just maximize box office proceeds from a dumbed down customer base and hope their nastalgia keeps them coming.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I think it's time this team starts to address the biggest problem on the team, which is clearly Hugh McGing, locker room cancer.

 

[joe galiba]

I think it's time this team starts to address the biggest problem on the team, which is clearly Hugh McGing, locker room cancer.

darn Irish people

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Is he a leprechaun or a leprechaun't?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

darn Irish people

f***, 21 years here and you all are finally on to me.

 

[Thallis]

The idea that Berube isn't good at X's and O's is silly. We swapped from a heavy hold the faceoff dots system during the cup win to a quick strike transition offense. If anything xs&os caused this it was the swap to the box + 1 that's messing with our offense, but even that has loosened up and gotten more aggressive in zone recently.

 

[ScratchCatFever]

I think it's time this team starts to address the biggest problem on the team, which is clearly Hugh McGing, locker room cancer.

Leprechauns love stirring up shit.

 

[joe galiba]

f***, 21 years here and you all are finally on to me.

Its the orange instead of red in the third color of the flag, it would change all the Irish into Italians and all would be right with the world

 

[Brian39]

First things first from me. It is sad to see the franchise's first ever Cup winning coach get fired and I firmly believe that Berube is an NHL-caliber coach. Maybe he's never again the quality of coach that he was in his first year and a half with the Blues where he pushed every correct button and who knows if he'll ever win another Cup. Plenty of incredible coaches only win 1. But I think he will find success with another NHL franchise and I won't be at all surprised if he has another job within the month. I have to think Ottawa is looking at their spot in the standings and wondering if Berube can bring that 2018/19 magic to their organization. My fondest memories surrounding a Blues coach are about Berube and there is no close 2nd place in that regard. He will (and should) always be a legend in St. Louis for what he did for this franchise.

Second, I'm not a fan of the timing on this. I have not been a big fan of the job he's been doing for the last 14 months, but I do think that he should have gotten a bit longer of a leash. I don't think the upside of doing it now is enticing enough to merit the firing at this stage of the season. But I very much disagree that it is absurd to fire him or that there aren't tangible reasons for firing the coach.

The PP is 31st in the league at 8.4% this year and it isn't like we have simply been snake-bitten and unable to bury chances at an unsustainably low rate. Our PP is 31st in the league in expected goals per 60, 32nd in high danger chances per 60, and 19th in scoring chances per 60. We flat out have not been generating quality chances on the PP. It has been downright putrid this season and after 28 games it is getting outscored by our PK. I have been losing my mind here about the PP structure and personnel since training camp and have seen very few adjustments beyond 'well let's send the 2nd unit out there to start this 3rd PP of the game since the top unit sucked on the first 2 chances.' That isn't remotely good enough. I don't buy any argument that the front office hasn't provided enough talent for the PP specifically. There is absolutely enough talent (and variety of handedness/skillset) on the roster to construct at least an adequate PP.

The results and on-ice play since Thanksgiving haven't been close to acceptable. And again, I don't buy an argument that we couldn't/shouldn't expect more from the roster on the ice over this stretch. In the 10 games since Thanksgiving, the team is 3-7 over a pretty damn soft schedule. 5 of the 7 losses are against teams in the bottom half of the league by points percentage, including losses to last place Chicago, 4th-to-last Columbus, and 7th-to-last Minnesota. Detroit is the 2nd best team we've lost to in this stretch and they were without Larkin, Perron, and Compher last night. Vegas is the only team we've played since Thanksgiving that has a roster that our roster objectively shouldn't hang with. We split our 2 games against them, but I don't think there is a single person who watched our OT win against them and didn't believe that Binner stole 2 points. Multiple people in the hockey media talked about that being the best game he's played since game 7 of the Cup Final, so it is hard to make that game a feather in the cap of the rest of our roster.

This roster has deep flaws, but I absolutely don't think it is so poor that we can sit here and say that no coach could have done any better than going 2-6 against Chicago (x2), Nashville, Minnesota, Arizona, Buffalo, Columbus, and Detroit. Again, I don't like the timing and I think the team's record pre-Thanksgiving should offset the most recent 10 games by at least some degree. But the last 3 weeks is definitely the type of stretch that becomes the straw that breaks a camel's back.

I think that poor goalie pull selections has been a long-term issue with Berube. Not a massive deal, but we have repeatedly been burned by early goalie pulls when we either have a PP or are humming at 5 on 5. Too often, pulling the goalie has disrupted momentum and quickly ended the game in the other team's favor. Again, not a massive deal but it is something squarely on coaching.

For all the (accurate and justified) talk about this year's roster not being good enough, I do think we should acknowledge that the 2022/23 team very much underperformed the sum of its parts. The plan heading into last season was absolutely not a top 10 pick and deadline fire sale, but the on-ice results got us to that point despite having objectively more talent than we do right now. ROR looked better in Toronto and Nashville than he did here in 2022/23. Tarasenko is looking much better in Ottawa than he did here in 2022/23. Mikkola is playing pretty damn well in Florida this year. Barbie has been struggling this year, but immediately excelled in Vegas post-trade. Going further back, Walman could barely get ice time under Berube and has turned into a legit top 4 support player in Detroit. Whether it is deployment, systems, players tuning out the coach, or a combo, there is a good chunk of data that Berube hasn't gotten the most out of plenty of quality players in the recent past.

Again, these things would not have been enough for me to pull the trigger last night. And I don't at all believe that we're a coaching change away from this roster being contenders. But I do think there is quite a bit that you can lay at the feet of the coaching staff even if we all agree that the roster is deeply flawed. Nothing about the last 14 months has screamed to me that Berube is maximizing the roster he has been given.

 

[ort]

It does kinda feel like it came out of nowhere. Looking at the roster as constructed, one would assume that they would be a lower-tier playoff bubble team, and that's exactly where they are. One point out of the bottom wild card spot... which is, like I said, pretty much exactly where most people would have slotted this team.

I wonder if there isn't something else going on. Not some scandelous thing, but some major locker room drama or other nonsense that we are not privy to.

Anyway, after being an absolute rabid die hard fan for about 25 years running... I've already been more or less checked out for the entire season... I've gone from watching 99% of Blues games to about 20%... and I can hardly get fired up about the games I do watch. All of my passion for the team has been drained away and replaced with complete indifference. It's not good.

Anyway... Thank you for the cup win, Chief.

 

[Brian39]

"Berube wasn't an X's and O's kind of coach."

What was he doing in 2019 and the 2020 regular season? Our entire style of play in that time relied heavily on X's and O's and guys doing their jobs in that system. That required someone to know their X's and O's, because we played a system with a group of guys that was all X's and O's. Was that all Ott, Van Ryn, the training staff, the beer guy up in 314?

For all the praises about the 2021-22 power play and Jim Montgomery's glorious work with it, we still had 235 goals for at even strength (4th best in the league). OK, sure - 199 ESGA was 17th, not great, but we know Binnington was terrible for some of that. That still required someone to be coaching X's and O's. Was Montgomery doing all that, too?

Every time I hear well, Berube wasn't an X's and O's kind of coach ... do you think his plan was "guys, go skate around aimlessly and do something with the puck, and hit someone I guess, and some other shit like that?" All the X's and O's coaching didn't cause guys to just f*** up on basic defensive plays, f*** up clearing the zone repeatedly, f*** up simple passes, stare at the puck and be oblivious to the opposing guy coming down the side for a cross-ice, back-door tap-in, ... all the shit we've seen over the last season and change.

Maybe the problem isn't coaching. Maybe it's the guys in the locker room not doing what they've been taught to do, told to do repeatedly, and and .... you know what, it's probably still Pietrangelo's fault for being such a shitty leader that it's caused all the leaders since to not be able to do their part. Asshole.


Stop. This is as bad as all the people who kept whining over not keeping career backup Roloson because he had a fantastic year at Worcester while Brent Johnson was carrying this team into the WCF, or not keeping (and playing) Bishop though he'd been really mediocre until 2011 when he finally got his shit together ... in the minors, while Elliott was on an all-time tear in net as the Blues were playing for the 1-seed in the West.

No one on this board knows which coaches are 'doing the Xs and Os' in a specific time. Teams don't share that information and if you aren't in the room (or at least very well connected to people in the room), then you don't know the breakdown of strategic responsibilities.

With that said, it was pretty well reported that Larry Robinson played a very large role in revamping the defense in the Cup season and he retired when COVID hit. We struggled in the 2021 COVID season and then brought in Montgomery for 2021/22 where we then had a great season. Montgomery left for Boston and immediately turned that team from a .650 team to a .750+ team.

During Berube's tenure, the coaching staff has had two very high quality hockey minds helping out at various times. Our successes occurred while they were here and our failures have all occurred after they left. I don't think that means that Berube isn't an Xs and Os guy and no one here can speak to the breakdown of who did what in the coaches room. But it is equally baseless to act like there just couldn't be structural issues.

 

[Blueston]

I also found that a little odd and a bit damning to Ott's future in STL...especially b/c there are some important prospects in the farm this year and you would think they would rather have some continuity in the AHL instead of bringing up a guy to try and salvage a mess at the NHL level.

Ott was too close to Berube. Promoting him wouldn’t likely change much for better. Needed to be outside voice if you were going to make change.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Army looked noticeably exhausted during the presser for this.

Not that it’s unexpected, but could tell it wasn’t a rather easy decision

 

[BlueKnight]

What a disaster of a of a press conference. Armstrong needs to go!!

 

[Blueston]

What a disaster of a of a press conference. Armstrong needs to go!!

Do you have any other songs you can play? This one is getting old.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Quick notes and thoughts:

* He was thinking about firing Berube after the Columbus game. He had to know there was a problem before that, we didn't lose that game and suddenly the thought came to mind.
* "He's too good of a coach not to be in this league, and I feel personally responsible ..." - again, someone else has to pay for my sins.
* "What do you feel personally responsible for?" Not a great hardball question, and Armstrong gave a complete non-answer ... until
* He admitted the organization isn't in a better spot than where he found it. That's a damning self-indictment. No one followed up by asking why he let it get to that point and how he's going to make sure it doesn't get worse from here.
* "We entered last season thinking, it's the last dance." f***ing. Woof.
* Someone: "[List of players who are gone], has the team lost that identity for a while?"
Doug: "Yeah, it has."

No follow-up of "so why did you let that happen, why isn't anyone on this roster paying a price for that, and why should you not pay a price for it?"

* "Does this signify a change in retool vs. whatever?" No, this is a refocus. WTF?
* Someone needs to type out in full his comment about ignorance, arrogance and how no one can look at the rosters for the last 3 games and think we should have lost all 3. Yeah, we could have - because those opponents play more like teams, and you've got a bunch of independent contractors.
* "I look around the league, there's some teams that are ahead of us right now that I don't look on paper like wow, we don't have a chance to compete with them, ... maybe 3 or 4 teams, but not, not the whole league." Yes, but no. It's more than 4 teams. It's at least a third of the league, arguably at least half.
* "I'm not against buying players out." That's a MASSIVE shift, because he's said repeatedly over the years he doesn't believe in buying players out.
* Obvious softballs like how do you hope St. Louis remembers Craig Berube's career here? and are you confident you can fix this?

He looked very unconfident, very exhausted as @BleedBlue14 just noted. In general, questions were tougher than last time (but still relatively marshmallow fluff soft) and he really struggled with answers at times.

I think I'm shifting my thoughts on whether he gets fired. His response about thinking of firing Berube after the Columbus game looked and sounded pretty confident, the justification after that got really nervous and shaky. I wonder if he went to Stillman and said "I want to change head coaches" and Stillman told the rest of ownership and someone threw a fit and demanded accountability from Armstrong. But the way he mentioned that he could be fired and it was something he couldn't control, ... that sounded like something a guy says when he's been told "your leash is short, if this doesn't get fixed you're next."

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I disagree that the presser was a disaster. What I like about Armstrong is that he tells it like it is and I don't think there's very much he said that I disagree with. But the leash is a lot shorter now for him to fix this team so he better get to work.

I particularly liked the part about not being afraid to bury veterans in the AHL. In other words, next one of you who rejects a good trade for this team better start finding a condo in Springfield, Mass.

Probably should've happened with Krug.