Bergeron or Ovechkin
- Thread starter Crosbyfan
- Start date
- Status
neelynugs
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 35,443
- 9,912
Crosbyfan said:
i think they both will...but looking back at your original post, i'd say there's really no way you can compare these two guys. i'm as big of a bergeron fan as can be, but realistically, ovechkin is miles ahead of him. that said, i'll gladly take bergeron over urquhart or kostitsyn
Crosbyfan
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2003
- 12,671
- 2,493
neelynugs said:i think they both will...but looking back at your original post, i'd say there's really no way you can compare these two guys. i'm as big of a bergeron fan as can be, but realistically, ovechkin is miles ahead of him. that said, i'll gladly take bergeron over urquhart or kostitsyn
Both have improved IMO since then and I still believe they are comparable. However, the consensus then was that they weren't even close. Ovechkin was thought by most to become a sure franchise player and Bergeron only a somewhat better than average NHLer. Many thought Bergeron was an excellent second round "find" but should still not be top 10 or 15 if '03 draft was redone.
With a good WJC Bergeron may change poster's perception of him.
I also don't get the "miles ahead" part. Although Ovechkin is bigger and stronger Bergeron plays the game as well and possibly has better hands.
Last edited:
CSKA
Registered User
EroCaps said:
I thought the same.....better hands o boy what next crosbyfan ? Better skater ? Maybe better shot ? What next ? ridiculously...... :lol
Bergeron is a good young talent but completely on another level than Ovechkin. A lower level.
Ovechkin is a world class player or at least develop into one. Bergeron is a capable NHL'er at best. You cannot compare the two.
Ovechkin is a world class player or at least develop into one. Bergeron is a capable NHL'er at best. You cannot compare the two.
PSUhockey34
Registered User
Saabato said:
crosbyfan seems to be the only one who hasnt grasped that fact
Bergeron wasnt on any one's radar at the start of the season, but you cant use that as a reason to say Bergeron is the better pick b/c he played beyond what was expected of him this past season
neelynugs
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 35,443
- 9,912
Saabato said:
i'd take offense to a comment like this- bergeron is barely 19 years old, and you're saying his "best" is a "capable NHLer"? sorry, i'm gonna have to disagree wholeheartedly with that. his "best" appears to be potentially a heckuva lot better than that, IMO.
Brent Burns Beard
Powered by Vasiliev Podsloven
- Feb 27, 2002
- 5,594
- 580
Crosbyfan said:Finally someone comes up with a real flaw.
However, this does not explain why Bergeron is so sucessful on the ice, and yet trails Ovechkin in the imagination of so many!
well from what i have seen, Bergeron looks like a Simon Gagne.
i havent see much of Ovechkin yet.
DR
its a Pejorative Slured question. Patric Bergeron is an awesome player no questions asked. Can do everything offensively. Great player now, gonna be a great player in years to come.
But you cannot compare him to Oveckin. Oveckhin is gonna be franchice player superstar player. Bergeron top line offensive winger. A few all star games, not in the same range as Oveckin. Will be a Canadian candidate for 2010 if he keeps his developement going. BTW Bergeron is doing way better then Oveckin at the world juniors, but that still means nothin.
No offence, buddy, Bergeron or Oveckin is a stupid question to ask.
Its like asking people who you rather have? Zac Parice or Sydney Crosby. Not even close.
But you cannot compare him to Oveckin. Oveckhin is gonna be franchice player superstar player. Bergeron top line offensive winger. A few all star games, not in the same range as Oveckin. Will be a Canadian candidate for 2010 if he keeps his developement going. BTW Bergeron is doing way better then Oveckin at the world juniors, but that still means nothin.
No offence, buddy, Bergeron or Oveckin is a stupid question to ask.
Its like asking people who you rather have? Zac Parice or Sydney Crosby. Not even close.
Crosbyfan
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2003
- 12,671
- 2,493
AgentNaslund said:
Apparently Bergeron's NHL results mean nothing either. You have to SEE them play...and wonder why Bergeron consistently gets as good or better results.
Don't get me wrong, I think Ovechkin is/will be a great player. Possibly even franchise/superstar. I just don't see it as a given.
I am just surprised that people feel Bergeron's potential is so limited. You at least give him some credit. But when/where has Bergeron proven that he cannot compare to Ovechkin.
Edit: Sid and Zach are 3 years apart in age, very different stages in development, whereas Alex and Patrice are the same age. So I think you can compare their results now and their overall abilities now. I'm not discounting the physical presence Ovechkin brings to the table but if you listen to some of these posters you would think that Ovechkin is better at every aspect of the game.
It simply isn't true and the results (exceptional for both players) show it.
Last edited:
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
Wow . . . how much wasted time on this? How many posts?
Sorry, but from a Pens fan (who of course knows that Malkin is > AO) let me come to AO's defense. How fast would the trigger be pulled if AO was offered for Bergeron straight up? And who do you think would be the one tripping all over themselves to pull the trigger?
The prosecution rests.
PS, I am not so sure that Craig Patrick would pull that straight up trade, Malkin for AO if offered. Prosecution rests again. But I will say that it is a hell of a lot closer than AO for Bergeron. That one is not even close.
Sorry, but from a Pens fan (who of course knows that Malkin is > AO) let me come to AO's defense. How fast would the trigger be pulled if AO was offered for Bergeron straight up? And who do you think would be the one tripping all over themselves to pull the trigger?
The prosecution rests.
PS, I am not so sure that Craig Patrick would pull that straight up trade, Malkin for AO if offered. Prosecution rests again. But I will say that it is a hell of a lot closer than AO for Bergeron. That one is not even close.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
Crosbyfan said:
. . . perhaps so. Maybe even likely so. But I do not get paid to make those calls. Unlike the Bruins' GM who does in fact get paid to make such judgements. And we both know that I am very very right. I would be right for every GM in hockey as to that straight up trade if they had Bergeron to offer, and none would even think twice about it. Game, set, match.It's impossible to do any stat comparison now simply because both play in different leagues with different players around them. If you want to stick to your stat numbers and use players in the same league, would you consider Andy Hilbert and Brad Boyes as good or better than Bergeron simply because they have comparable numbers in the AHL this year?
Personally, I think Bergeron is a great, solid player and he was a nice pick up by the Bruins in the second around. Every year there is a player that surprises everyone and Bergeron did that this past year. One thing to keep in mind though is there have been a lot of one year wonders who disappeared thereafter. Though I don't by any means think this of Bergeron, I wouldn't make much of just part of an NHL season. I tend to look at things longer term.
I would take AO over Bergeron simply because I think he has more upside as a forward. I think AO can make magical things happen with the puck, as we saw in the Russia vs USA game the other night. I also think he is a finisher and can be an All Star year in and year out. For Bergeron, I think he will be a solid second line center but don't think he has the play-making ability that AO has. My only concern for AO is he didn't look like a team player that night.
Anyways, this string is getting a bit too long and boring. Please give it a rest already. Come back 5 years from now and if Bergeron is doing things AO is not, then talk. Right now it is just way too early to judge anything at all
Personally, I think Bergeron is a great, solid player and he was a nice pick up by the Bruins in the second around. Every year there is a player that surprises everyone and Bergeron did that this past year. One thing to keep in mind though is there have been a lot of one year wonders who disappeared thereafter. Though I don't by any means think this of Bergeron, I wouldn't make much of just part of an NHL season. I tend to look at things longer term.
I would take AO over Bergeron simply because I think he has more upside as a forward. I think AO can make magical things happen with the puck, as we saw in the Russia vs USA game the other night. I also think he is a finisher and can be an All Star year in and year out. For Bergeron, I think he will be a solid second line center but don't think he has the play-making ability that AO has. My only concern for AO is he didn't look like a team player that night.
Anyways, this string is getting a bit too long and boring. Please give it a rest already. Come back 5 years from now and if Bergeron is doing things AO is not, then talk. Right now it is just way too early to judge anything at all
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
EroCaps said:
Not really. My memory is that neither the Caps or the Pens seriously looked to move either player. As for right now, straight up, would CP consider it? Likely so, but it would be a hard call in my opinion. Both players have developed well, both are doing very well (Malkin just had three points in one game for instance). No, I think that both McPhee and Patrick are pretty thrilled with how things are progressing, and that is good for both franchises.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
If you're talking about RIGHT NOW, Bergeron is better than Ovechkin. Pat is dominating the World Juniors in a way I don't recall a player to have done since Forsberg/Naslund. But this is obvious that no NHL GM would trade Ovechkin for Bergeron. Ovechkin is way more skilled that Bergeron will ever be. The only 2 reasons why Pat Bergeron is more EFFECTIVE then Ovechkin RIGHT NOW is because Bergeron has NHL experience under his belt and he has a heart as big as Canada.
But again, if you give me the choice between Bergeron and Ovechkin, I take Sacha. In the long run he is the obvious choice. Bergeron will probably be a great player but no where near Ovechkin. The only case I can make for Bergie is that he is more effective right now.
But again, if you give me the choice between Bergeron and Ovechkin, I take Sacha. In the long run he is the obvious choice. Bergeron will probably be a great player but no where near Ovechkin. The only case I can make for Bergie is that he is more effective right now.
PSUhockey34
Registered User
EroCaps said:
I dont remember hearing anything about the Pens trading for the 1st overall pick...both teams seem to be satisfied with who they were going to draft and with both teams rebuilding, it wouldnt be the best move for the Pens to trade a prospect and/or a pick
DaaaaB's
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2004
- 8,401
- 1,955
I love the Bruins and I love having Bergeron on the team but there is no doubt in my mind that Ovechkin will be the better player. Right now it's pretty even but given time Ovechkin will pull away from him.
BTW anyone that thinks Craig Patrick wouldn't trade Malkin for Ovechkin is dreaming.
BTW anyone that thinks Craig Patrick wouldn't trade Malkin for Ovechkin is dreaming.
great thread.
DKH
The Bergeron of HF
- Feb 27, 2002
- 74,289
- 52,146
I like this post- this may be a horsebleep analogy but as a Patriots (and Bruins) season tix holder I love Tom Brady. But if I had first choice today in the Draft I'd take Payton Manning. Bergeron is an organization's dream but AO is one of those guys you see every 4 or 5 years in a Draft that has Super Star all over him. I have pretty much only read about the exploits of AO as if it was 1940 reading about Ted Williams or Joe Dimaggio. You have to use your imagination when you haven't seen him except here and there. Bergeron you watch and appreciate how good he is but even as a Bruins fan I can't for the life of me believe I'd take Bergeron over him. Hey, I loved Dave Keon as a kid growing up but I wouldn't have taken him over Phil Esposito. I would think Crosby vs Overchkin would be more appropriate. Again, seen little of Crosby but haven't seen this much hype since Lindros and only Lemieux since the draft instituted for talk.DanyHeatley#1Fan said:
- Status
