Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season

[Ace of Hades]

Lmao its nothing to hype when he is one of the better defensive forwards on a team that doesnt have a SINGLE defensive forward worth a damn. They are the most inept team defensively in the league and have been.

Not saying much at all. Most teams in the league have 6-8 forwards who are better defensively

No one is hyping that.

The fact is that the kid can play actual defense.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

No one is hyping that.

The fact is that the kid can play actual defense.

And what makes you say that? Because he is fast and can pickpocket on occasion?

Thats what is considered defense now?

 

[Ace of Hades]

And what makes you say that? Because he is fast and can pickpocket on occasion?

Thats what is considered defense now?

Being responsible defensively. Generally being in a position to defend, capable of backchecking, creating turnovers ensures the kid isnt one dimensional.

 

[LordNeverLose]

And what makes you say that? Because he is fast and can pickpocket on occasion?

Thats what is considered defense now?

What makes a great defensive forward to you? Being tall and strong? I guess Datsyuk wasn't a great defensive forward because he couldn't muscle people off the puck? Fact is Barzal is a pretty good defensive forward.

 

[Ace of Hades]

What makes a great defensive forward to you? Being tall and strong? I guess Datsyuk wasn't a great defensive forward because he couldn't muscle people off the puck? Fact is Barzal is a pretty good defensive forward.

Actually Datsyuk was capable of muscling players off the puck. The man was a tank with incredible upper-low strength.

 

[vanarchy]

I'd till take Matthews but Barzal had the better rookie season and it's not really a matter of debate. The totals speak for themselves and aren't even close at this point.

Matthews has a higher ceiling and is a cornerstone franchise player. Barzal is also a superstar in the making.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Being responsible defensively. Generally being in a position to defend, capable of backchecking, creating turnovers ensures the kid isnt one dimensional.

Not being one dimensional does not make you good defensively.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Not being one dimensional does not make you good defensively.

I just explained why hes good defensively. Explain why he isnt.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I just explained why hes good defensively. Explain why he isnt.

You made stuff up, he is not positionally sound, he is a backchecker and thats it. Hence he doesnt get PK. Hence he isnt trusted in defensive zone draws late in the game.

Just because you make it up doesnt make it true

 

[Ace of Hades]

You made stuff up, he is not positionally sound, he is a backchecker and thats it. Hence he doesnt get PK. Hence he isnt trusted in defensive zone draws late in the game.

Just because you make it up doesnt make it true

Just because he isnt utilized on the PK properly doesnt imply hes bad defensively. Its his first season in the league. Coaches tend to take it easy on a rookie when it comes to defensive matchups. He has shown capable of outplaying top players.

I watch the kid play a good portion of games and I have seen him sound defensively and in the position to defend. Your bias toward the kid makes you sound very delusional. You probably assume him being PPG at a very young age makes him poor defensively or something.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Just because he isnt utilized on the PK properly doesnt imply hes bad defensively. Its his first season in the league. Coaches tend to take it easy on a rookie when it comes to defensive matchups. He has shown capable of outplaying top players.

I watch the kid play a good portion of games and I have seen him sound defensively and in the position to defend. Your bias toward the kid makes you sound very delusional. You probably assume him being PPG at a very young age makes him poor defensively or something.

Today we learned Barzal is good defensively but his own team is to blind to see it!!

Good thing we have the fans of his proving it with nothing factual but instesd just their opinions

 

[Ace of Hades]

Today we learned Barzal is good defensively but his own team is to blind to see it!!

Good thing we have the fans of his proving it with nothing factual but their opinions

You seemed to have learned that. Everyone who watched him a fair amount knows he can play defense.

Im not a Barzal fan, nice try tho. Show some objectivity. Your subjective opinions arent facts.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

You seemed to have learned that. Everyone who watched him a fair amount knows he can play defense.

Im not a Barzal fan, nice try tho. Show some objectivity. Your subjective opinions arent facts.

Oh so the fans know it but not his own team, the worst defensive team in the league? They couldnt use help from a good defensive player like Barzal?

Youre right it must be because hes a rookie... whos 21... and yet other rookies have started on PKs and taken defensive draws before.

I guess the fans know more than the Islanders organization. Or Barzal isnt god defensively and thats reality

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Barzal's points per game min 40 gp is 22nd.
Matthews' points per game min 40 gp was 30th.

Factor in Matthews goal scoring, being younger, and having two rookie linemates.. it's close. I think 40 is more impressive though.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Oh so the fans know it but not his own team, the worst defensive team in the league? They couldnt use help from a good defensive player like Barzal?

Youre right it must be because hes a rookie... whos 21... and yet other rookies have started on PKs and taken defensive draws before.

I guess the fans know more than the Islanders organization. Or Barzal isnt god defensively and thats reality

You do realize that it's his first season in the league right? He's already involved in most of the team's offensive scoring, and is part of the team's top offensive unit. He will be involved in the PK or given more defensive starts when he's more experienced.

No one is arguing that he's a selke level or god defensively, that's basically your own problem. The fact he is he can play defense once he's given the opportunities. It's pretty telling sign that not a single person has agreed with you so far.... Maybe just maybe have you thought that Isles fans know more about their player and his defensive traits than a non-Isle fan like yours? I'll take their opinions over yours anyday of the week, and twice on Sundays. They watch the kid play all season long, compared to yourself and hence are likely more to be knowledgeable about him than you.

 

[Rehabguy]

It's times like these when a little simple logic can pay dividends.


Anders Lee 2017-2018

2017-2018

80

39

22

61

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Auston Matthews

2017-2018

60

33

27

60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Matthew Barzal

2017-2018

80

22

60

82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Based on these stats, Anders Lee is > Auston Matthews

and since it is universally agreed that Matthew Barzal is >>> Anders Lee

Therefore: Matthew Barzal >>>>>>>>>> Auston Matthews.

 

[HoBOonFiRE]

It's times like these when a little simple logic can pay dividends.


Anders Lee 2017-2018

2017-2018

80

39

22

61

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Auston Matthews

2017-2018

60

33

27

60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Matthew Barzal

2017-2018

80

22

60

82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Based on these stats, Anders Lee is > Auston Matthews

and since it is universally agreed that Matthew Barzal is >>> Anders Lee

Therefore: Matthew Barzal >>>>>>>>>> Auston Matthews.

Spot on logic..not like there's a big gap in GP

 

[Critical13]

The obvious reason is that Leaf fans seem to have the biggest issue with Barzal succeeding in the NHL. That people would dare put him on the same level on almighty Matthews, despite Barzal's rookie season being the best since Malkin over a decade ago.

The Edmonton Oilers had a chance to draft him but traded the pick, plus a high 2nd rounder, for godawful Griffin Reinhart. Plenty of shots are made at their expense every time Barzal hits a new milestone- check the 80-point thread on the main board. They have every reason to express sour grapes about Barzal succeeding, yet you never see them in these types of threads posting condescending predictions about how Barzal is only putting up points because of this or that, or they can't wait to see how much he'll regress when Tavares leaves lololol.

Maybe it's because everyone knows Edmonton's #1C is still on another tier entirely than Barzal because when I say 82+ at 20, you say 103 at 21. I'm sure Toronto fans would love to say 103 to counter 82+, but that's not statistically possible, so it's 69+intangibles >>> 82+.

I am sorry, but what Leaf fans, exactly? I see a small handful arguing that he isn't better than Matthews, but I have yet to see any actually hoping he fails. You are taking the Donald Trump approach to discussing this - the majority of your posts are just underhanded jabs at another fanbase.

Also, there's nothing condescending about questioning Barzal's season. I think you are taking it personally for some reason, that some of us want to see him repeat it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Oh so the fans know it but not his own team, the worst defensive team in the league? They couldnt use help from a good defensive player like Barzal?

Youre right it must be because hes a rookie... whos 21... and yet other rookies have started on PKs and taken defensive draws before.

I guess the fans know more than the Islanders organization. Or Barzal isnt god defensively and thats reality

I don't think anyone will change your mind.

But here are a couple of things to ponder.

At ES in their rookie seasons. Barzal has faced tougher match ups than Matthews. If we are to use CF% QOC as an indicator, both as rookies.

Barzal QOC CF% 50.11
Matthews QOC CF% 49.77

Yet Barzal still held the advantage in possession metrics to Matthews. Despite being on a poorer possession team.

Barzal ES CF% 52.18
Matthews ES CF% 51.68

Now I don't know where you stand on Matthews being defensively? But if you think Barzal is bad defensively just because his team lacks a good D core, and competent Goalie. I think you are missing the big picture here.

Also of players on the Islanders to play atleast 45 games this season.

Barzal ranks 4th best on the team in GA60 as fewest goals scored at ES. Not sure how he is so bad defensively using these metrics.

Corsica | Skater Stats

 

[Incognito]

It's times like these when a little simple logic can pay dividends.


Anders Lee 2017-2018

2017-2018

80

39

22

61

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Auston Matthews

2017-2018

60

33

27

60

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Matthew Barzal

2017-2018

80

22

60

82

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Based on these stats, Anders Lee is > Auston Matthews

and since it is universally agreed that Matthew Barzal is >>> Anders Lee

Therefore: Matthew Barzal >>>>>>>>>> Auston Matthews.

I've seen a lot of hot takes in my near decade of time spent as a member on HFBoards, but Anders Lee > Auston Matthews is probably the most ridiculous one yet. You start your post off by mentioning logic, but then you fail to use any.

 

[CodeE]

I am sorry, but what Leaf fans, exactly? I see a small handful arguing that he isn't better than Matthews, but I have yet to see any actually hoping he fails. You are taking the Donald Trump approach to discussing this - the majority of your posts are just underhanded jabs at another fanbase.

Also, there's nothing condescending about questioning Barzal's season. I think you are taking it personally for some reason, that some of us want to see him repeat it. Nothing wrong with that.

Leaf fans are just "a small handful arguing Barzal isn't better than Matthews" - that's it folks! Nothing wrong with that! Certainly not a year-long obsession with Barzal outperforming Marner and now Matthews, with Leaf fans literally saying how insulting it is to poor Auston to even compare him to Barzal.

You know what I don't see? A small handful of Ducks fans making posts about how Barzal isn't as good as stupid Islander fans think he is. Don't see Hurricanes fans either. Blackhawks fans, Senators fans, Stars fans, Lightning fans - heck we even got a legit Brock Boeser sympathizer arguing that Barzal can play defense! You know, the Brock Boeser that was neck-and-neck with Barzal in the Calder race for a sizable part of the season.

There's like two Devils fans obsessed with Hischier >>>>> Barzal (both of whom joined the site very recently) and the majority of Leaf fans obsessed with Matthews >>>> Barzal. If you want to falsely paint your side as the innocent perfect angel victims and the other side as the evil bad boogeymen, you're the only taking the Donald Trump approach to discussing this.

 

[Strait2thecup]

So thats also why he isnt on the ice at all in the defensive zone to hold a lead, right?

So which is it - is he not trusted defensively of some fabricated nonsense about his lack of faceoff percentage and being too young lol

Yes, barzal never is out for late game defensive zone faceoffs because hes horrible at faceoffs. If you think that is "fabricated nonsense" you clearly know nothing about the sport.

 

[Jets012]

Better rookie year? Barzal and it's not even that close IMO. Barzal has been stupid good. Hell he might be a better player than Matthews currently is. And that's no knock on Matthews. Barzal does things that a select few players could even attempt at doing. And this is coming from a Devils fan.

 

[Rehabguy]

I've seen a lot of hot takes in my near decade of time spent as a member on HFBoards, but Anders Lee > Auston Matthews is probably the most ridiculous one yet. You start your post off by mentioning logic, but then you fail to use any.

There was a lot of in that post and I tried to deploy a lot of Leaf fan logic in that one.

 

[Rehabguy]

Better rookie year? Barzal and it's not even that close IMO. Barzal has been stupid good. Hell he might be a better player than Matthews currently is. And that's no knock on Matthews. Barzal does things that a select few players could even attempt at doing. And this is coming from a Devils fan.

Agreed, Barzal's exceptional skills are unique. No disrespect to Matthews, but I can't find many areas in his game where his individual skill excels over Barzal, maybe release, but that's about it.