Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season

[CujosMask]

#NotAllLeafFans, jesus we get it. For someone complaining about narratives you sure are pushing one now, that there are only 6-7 bad Leaf fans and all of them just happen to be posting in this thread. What are the odds?

In this thread you'll find plenty of anti-Barzal crap. I don't need to provide links. Click on any page 1-21 and keep reading until you find it. I'm not flying to Toronto, running around sports bars telling every Leaf fan I see that they're all garbage. I'm responding to Toronto fans who come into this thread and post negative nonsense about the next Calder winner. If you're so happy to forgive and forget about those bad 6-7 Leaf fans ruining it for the rest of you angelic fanbase, maybe you can find it in your heart to forgive and forget "ridiculous nonsense" from an Islanders fan.

Go outside lol

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Have to go with Barzal. 13 more points is just too much to overlook. What a great rookie season.

13 more points with 120 mins of games left to reach Matthews 82 game mark. Matthews scored his 40th goal and got his 69th point in his last 2 games I recall.

So Barzal may not be done yet.

 

[bionic]

13 more points with 120 mins of games left to reach Matthews 82 game mark. Matthews scored his 40th goal and got his 69th point in his last 2 games I recall.

So Barzal may not be done yet.

True but Matthews did what he did under the pressure of a playoff race helping his team into the playoffs. The pressure is all off Barzal because they were eliminated a while back.

 

[Plural]

True but Matthews did what he did under the pressure of a playoff race helping his team into the playoffs. The pressure is all off Barzal because they were eliminated a while back.

Fair point. But it's still a sizeable difference. One thing is for sure,we have super strong back to back Calder winners.

 

[HOPE]

True but Matthews did what he did under the pressure of a playoff race helping his team into the playoffs. The pressure is all off Barzal because they were eliminated a while back.

what??

barzal has been stacking point since the start of the season...

 

[1specter]

Yep, and the only argument that Gretzky was better than Tim Kerr in 1985-86 was points. Sure, Gretzky had 215 points but he had better linemates and was poor defensively. Kerr had more goals, which we all know is more important.

Yes because finishing with 13+ points more in your D+3 year while playing behind Tavares in a higher scoring season is the equivalent of scoring 130+ more points.

The fact that you resort to such garbage extreme straw man examples shows that you don't have a concrete argument.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

True but Matthews did what he did under the pressure of a playoff race helping his team into the playoffs. The pressure is all off Barzal because they were eliminated a while back.

Barzal was already over 70pts when he was trying to keep the Isles in the playoff race until they were eliminated. If anything I commend him for this, and not playing out the string when a team is not playoff bound. He beat Matthews when it counted too. It's actually harder to play less meaningful games. Barzal has done both. Guaranteed PPG this season, 13 pts and counting better than Matthews rookie season with games in hand. Impressive!

 

[1specter]

Have to go with Barzal. 13 more points is just too much to overlook. What a great rookie season.

Thing is 7 guys this season have cracked 90+ pts with a good chance for 9+ guys by the end of the season. There's also 19 guys sitting above 80 pts, with a good chance that another 4-5 guys break that threshold as well.

Last year only one guy crossed 90 pts and only 7 in total surpassed even 80. That's less than half of this year's total.

If you can't overlook the difference in points between the two then you shouldn't overlook the variation in league wide scoring either. This is the highest scoring NHL season in 10+ years.

 

[bionic]

Barzal was already over 70pts when he was trying to keep the Isles in the playoff race until they were eliminated. If anything I commend him for this, and not playing out the string when a team is not playoff bound. He beat Matthews when it counted too. It's actually harder to play less meaningful games. Barzal has done both. Guaranteed PPG this season, 13 pts and counting better than Matthews rookie season with games in hand. Impressive!

Listen barzal is awesome, one of the best young players in the leaugue, I just feel Matthews all around game is better. If you disagree that's fine because I can actually see it from both sides. But to say it's harder to play meaningless games over the pressure cooker of a playoff race is WRONG. Jeez give Matthews some credit for scoring goals in the last couple of games helping the leafs into the playoffs where he continued him big game play by scoring 4 goals in 6 games.

 

[1specter]

Barzal is currently 18th in league scoring with 82 pts. Last year, 18th in scoring was Pastrnak with 70.

 

[Atomos2]

I don't know, is he?

Umm, of course he is.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Barzal is currently 18th in league scoring with 82 pts. Last year, 18th in scoring was Pastrnak with 70.

Matthews was tied for 20th in points last year.

He was also tied for 2nd in goals. He was in his D+1 and the best player on a playoff team. But apparently there is no possible argument for him.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Barzal is currently 18th in league scoring with 82 pts. Last year, 18th in scoring was Pastrnak with 70.

Correct, which was still ahead of matthews (i know, only one point)

 

[1specter]

Matthews was tied for 20th in points last year.

He was also tied for 2nd in goals. He was in his D+1 and the best player on a playoff team. But apparently there is no possible argument for him.

This is a common shortcoming in arguments here. People compare seasons without any context of league scoring and distribution. You want to argue numbers? Use them properly then.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Depends if you value goals more or points more.

Since 1990, the only players to get more goals than Matthews on a rookie year are Lindros, Selanne, and Ovechkin. That's utterly elite company.

When looking at points since 1990, 5 players beat Barzal on their rookie years (Ovechkin, Selanne, Crosby, Juneau, and Malkin), also utterly elite company.

Some people think a 40 goal year is more special than an 80 point season (with 22 goals). Others think the opposite.

Neither are right or wrong.

 

[1specter]

Correct, which was still ahead of matthews (i know, only one point)

Sure, but one guy was only the fourth rookie to break 40 goals in 25 years, and the first three did it in much higher scoring seasons while also being older.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Sure, but one guy was only the fourth rookie to break 40 goals in 25 years, and the first three did it in much higher scoring seasons while also being older.

And barzal was the first rookie to break 80 points in over 10 years. Whats your point?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Depends if you value goals more or points more.

Since 1990, the only players to get more goals than Matthews on a rookie year are Lindros, Selanne, and Ovechkin. That's utterly elite company.

When looking at points since 1990, 5 players beat Barzal on their rookie years (Ovechkin, Selanne, Crosby, Juneau, and Malkin), also utterly elite company.

Some people think a 40 goal year is more special than an 80 point season (with 22 goals). Others think the opposite.

Neither are right or wrong.

Exactly. A 40-goal rookie season is incredible. And so is 80+ points.

Personally, I take points over goals. Barzal is a Dandy.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Depends if you value goals more or points more.

Since 1990, the only players to get more goals than Matthews on a rookie year are Lindros, Selanne, and Ovechkin. That's utterly elite company.

When looking at points since 1990, 5 players beat Barzal on their rookie years (Ovechkin, Selanne, Crosby, Juneau, and Malkin), also utterly elite company.

Some people think a 40 goal year is more special than an 80 point season (with 22 goals). Others think the opposite.

Neither are right or wrong.

Pretty much this.

 

[1specter]

And barzal was the first rookie to break 80 points in over 10 years. Whats your point?

What Matthews did was more impressive and rare comparatively. What was the point of you mentioning that 70 is more than 69?

 

[izzy]

True but Matthews did what he did under the pressure of a playoff race helping his team into the playoffs. The pressure is all off Barzal because they were eliminated a while back.

yeah cuz they were eliminated from the race 3-4 months back

lmao

 

[bionic]

So are we just going to ignore the playoffs where Matthews scored 4 goals and 5 points in 6 games. Pretty damn impressive for a rookie in his first playoffs in the NHL.

 

[PWJunior]

So are we just going to ignore the playoffs where Matthews scored 4 goals and 5 points in 6 games. Pretty damn impressive for a rookie in his first playoffs in the NHL.

That is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Strait2thecup]

What Matthews did was more impressive and rare comparatively. What was the point of you mentioning that 70 is more than 69?

Because your'e acknowledging one and not the other (see the bolded). You came into this thread with a completely subjective point of view. what Matthews did has hardly happened less than rookies scoring 80 points over the past 25 years and claiming its more impressive is utter bias

 

[bionic]

That is irrelevant to this discussion.

Why? He did it as a rookie.