Barracuda News & Discussion - Part 5

[Patty Ice]

Don't you think it's reasonable to see Reedy with different players?

It's exactly what I would do. Reedy found chemistry with certain players playing a certain style; can he do the same with others? Sommer's job isn't to boost Reedy's confidence or stats, or even to win games...it's to evaluate his potential/ability and to develop him.

While I agree with your last statement, if two young players put together a great game working together any reasonable and logical person would think it warrants another go around if for just another game.

I dont think it is out of line to suggest such a thing or worthy to receive a response like I am being unreasonable.

 

[OrrNumber4]

While I agree with your last statement. If two young players put together a great game working together any reasonable and logical person would think it warrants another go around if for just another game.

There are like six games left in the season; maybe the organization wants to collect as much data as it can for next season.

I dont think it is out of line to suggest such a thing or worthy to receive a response like I am being unreasonable.

It seemed that you were implying that Sommer was making a brainless move where a very reasonable interpretation exists. Perhaps I'm being harsh (it is the internet), but I think people are too quick to lack charity with Sommer.

 

[Patty Ice]

There are like six games left in the season; maybe the organization wants to collect as much data as it can for next season.



It seemed that you were implying that Sommer was making a brainless move where a very reasonable interpretation exists. Perhaps I'm being harsh (it is the internet), but I think people are too quick to lack charity with Sommer.

You arent the only one to defend Sommer. I had a few exchanges with 210 back during the Worcester days about this very same thing. Sommer's main job is to develop these guys to play the Sharks system. I have gotten that for awhile now and my post does not stray from that school of thought.

 

[Gecklund]

There are like six games left in the season; maybe the organization wants to collect as much data as it can for next season.



It seemed that you were implying that Sommer was making a brainless move where a very reasonable interpretation exists. Perhaps I'm being harsh (it is the internet), but I think people are too quick to lack charity with Sommer.

I mean what exactly has Sommer done in terms of player development for the Sharks? How many Sharks prospects have spent significant time in the AHL and become a top 6 player?

Couture played 42 games in 09-10 and was a Sharks regular within his first season
Timo played 33 games in 16-17 and was a regular within his first season
Hertl only 2 games
Labanc a total of 21 games over 2 seasons
Balcers played 57 games in 17-18 but then got traded to OTT and didn't become a regular until he came back to us
Vlasic played 1 game in the AHL
Simek a total of 69 games over 2 seasons and only got a chance because of an injury crisis
Ferraro 0
Knyzhov 33 games

That's all of our guys that were prospects and now top 6 players with us. I don't think you can say Sommer did anything with them. Now don't get me wrong you can blame a lot of it on the prospect quality but the Cuda haven't really been developing top 6 players.

 

[Patty Ice]

I mean what exactly has Sommer done in terms of player development for the Sharks? How many Sharks prospects have spent significant time in the AHL and become a top 6 player?

Couture played 42 games in 09-10 and was a Sharks regular within his first season
Timo played 33 games in 16-17 and was a regular within his first season
Hertl only 2 games
Labanc a total of 21 games over 2 seasons
Balcers played 57 games in 17-18 but then got traded to OTT and didn't become a regular until he came back to us
Vlasic played 1 game in the AHL
Simek a total of 69 games over 2 seasons and only got a chance because of an injury crisis
Ferraro 0
Knyzhov 33 games

That's all of our guys that were prospects and now top 6 players with us. I don't think you can say Sommer did anything with them. Now don't get me wrong you can blame a lot of it on the prospect quality but the Cuda haven't really been developing top 6 players.

You want your farm to supply depth. Top players rarely spend any significant time in minors as your examples show.

Any extended time in the AHL is for your middle and bottom 6 forward and bottom 4 defenseman. Sommer has a decent to good track record with providing the Sharks that and the reason why he finds himself still employed for two decades despite only a decent career W/L ratio.

 

[Gecklund]

You want your farm to supply depth. Top players rarely spend any significant time in minors as your examples show.

Any extended time in the AHL is for your middle and bottom 6 forward and bottom 4 defenseman. Sommer has a decent to good track record with providing the Sharks that and the reason why he finds himself still employed for two decades despite only a decent career W/L ratio.

Well then we can look at the bottom 6 forwards

Dylan Gambrell 66 AHL games over 2 seasons
Noah Gregor 35 AHL games over 2 seasons
Matt Nieto 13 AHL games over 2 seasons
Alex True Around 200 AHL games (this one I'll give you but he's at best a 4C)
Joachim Blichfield 69 AHL games over 2 seasons

D was all trades or already listed. Obviously all of these could spend more time in the AHL and there could be some of the guys like Chmelevski that come up that have spent a solid amount of time there but I mean most of the guys the Sharks bring on don't spend much time in the AHL. Sommer is not great with player development. This is strictly current players with the Sharks because I think that's what is most important currently especially with us going into a rebuild and our prospects will hopefully be getting developed in the AHL.

 

[Patty Ice]

Well then we can look at the bottom 6 forwards

Dylan Gambrell 66 AHL games over 2 seasons
Noah Gregor 35 AHL games over 2 seasons
Matt Nieto 13 AHL games over 2 seasons
Alex True Around 200 AHL games (this one I'll give you but he's at best a 4C)
Joachim Blichfield 69 AHL games over 2 seasons

D was all trades or already listed. Obviously all of these could spend more time in the AHL and there could be some of the guys like Chmelevski that come up that have spent a solid amount of time there but I mean most of the guys the Sharks bring on don't spend much time in the AHL. Sommer is not great with player development. This is strictly current players with the Sharks because I think that's what is most important currently especially with us going into a rebuild and our prospects will hopefully be getting developed in the AHL.

His list goes beyond those few recent examples.

 

[Gecklund]

His list goes beyond those few recent examples.

It does but who were the other recent examples? Torrey Mitchell? He only played 18 games. Braun played 47. Demers played around 100 with 78 coming in one season. Ryane Clowe played around 170 over 3 seasons but that was back in 04-05.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

It does but who were the other recent examples? Torrey Mitchell? He only played 18 games. Braun played 47. Demers played around 100 with 78 coming in one season. Ryane Clowe played around 170 over 3 seasons but that was back in 04-05.

Goodrow comes to mind.

 

[Patty Ice]

It does but who were the other recent examples? Torrey Mitchell? He only played 18 games. Braun played 47. Demers played around 100 with 78 coming in one season. Ryane Clowe played around 170 over 3 seasons but that was back in 04-05.

Kipper and Toskala, Jonathan Cheechoo, Christian Ehrhoff, Marcel Goc, Doug Murray, Dylan DeMelo, Yanni Gourde, Jamie McGinn, Thomas Greiss, Alex Stalock, Matt Irwin, Tommy Wingels just to name some more. There have been a ton of guys that have gone on to successful (whether major or minor) NHL careers.

That is not to say Sommer was the sole key which led to these guys to make it to the NHL but he did have a hand in their development. While he has always been prone to making questionable to dumb decisions, there is a direct correlation to the length he has been the head coach of the Sharks AHL clubs and the two decades long stretch of contending Sharks hockey. He consistently fed the main team useful players that could and have stepped into a NHL roles.

 

[Gecklund]

Goodrow comes to mind.

Goodrow surprisingly only spent around 100 games in the AHL (maybe closer to 130 doing eyeball math) and didn't seem to take the next step until his last season here. Other than that he was a flawed 4th liner.

Kipper and Toskala, Jonathan Cheechoo, Christian Ehrhoff, Marcel Goc, Doug Murray, Dylan DeMelo, Yanni Gourde, Jamie McGinn, Thomas Greiss, Alex Stalock, Matt Irwin, Tommy Wingels just to name some more. There have been a ton of guys that have gone on to successful (whether major or minor) NHL careers.

That is not to say Sommer was the sole key which led to these guys to make it to the NHL but he did have a hand in their development. While he has always been prone to making questionable to dumb decisions, there is a direct correlation to the length he has been the head coach of the Sharks AHL clubs and the two decades long stretch of contending Sharks hockey. He consistently fed the main team useful players that could and have stepped into a NHL roles.

Kipper under 100 in 3 seasons, Toskala spent a good amount of time around 150 but was never better than a journeyman backup, Cheechoo another one I'll give since his numbers can be seen going up as he spent more time in the AHL, Ehrhoff right around 100 games over 2 seasons with 80 coming in one season, Goc spent basically two seasons on the AHL team and you can see his numbers go up (not much), Murray is another one I'll give you, Demelo was awful with the Sharks and I fully give the Sens credit for him, Gourde spent less than a season with the AHL Sharks, I'll give you McGinn but again replaceable third liner, Greiss you are right, Stalock I got confused with Dell and thought he was the undrafted one that came up through Allen but journeyman backup, Irwin is and always was awful, Wingels spent under 100 games in 2 seasons with the AHL.

So basically Sommer developed 2 journeyman backup goalies, a flawed top 6 winger with an excellent shot, 3 replaceable third line players, and a 1B goalie in like 20 years. The most recent of these being in the early 2010s. Yes you can say that he had a hand in all of these guys development but then you have to give credit to every single U10 coach they had growing up and every single trainer they've ever had. Sommer is not someone I want around the young guys coming up right now. Even a blind bird can find food if it tries enough times.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Goodrow surprisingly only spent around 100 games in the AHL (maybe closer to 130 doing eyeball math) and didn't seem to take the next step until his last season here. Other than that he was a flawed 4th liner.

Kipper under 100 in 3 seasons, Toskala spent a good amount of time around 150 but was never better than a journeyman backup, Cheechoo another one I'll give since his numbers can be seen going up as he spent more time in the AHL, Ehrhoff right around 100 games over 2 seasons with 80 coming in one season, Goc spent basically two seasons on the AHL team and you can see his numbers go up (not much), Murray is another one I'll give you, Demelo was awful with the Sharks and I fully give the Sens credit for him, Gourde spent less than a season with the AHL Sharks, I'll give you McGinn but again replaceable third liner, Greiss you are right, Stalock I got confused with Dell and thought he was the undrafted one that came up through Allen but journeyman backup, Irwin is and always was awful, Wingels spent under 100 games in 2 seasons with the AHL.

So basically Sommer developed 2 journeyman backup goalies, a flawed top 6 winger with an excellent shot, 3 replaceable third line players, and a 1B goalie in like 20 years. The most recent of these being in the early 2010s. Yes you can say that he had a hand in all of these guys development but then you have to give credit to every single U10 coach they had growing up and every single trainer they've ever had. Sommer is not someone I want around the young guys coming up right now. Even a blind bird can find food if it tries enough times.

1) I think we overrate how important development is. Everyone knows what steps a player has to take; the question is whether or not the player has the ability and/or the will to do it.
2) Since the lockout, with the cap in place, teams can't afford to keep their players ripening on the vine. They want that cheap body to fill a hole in the lineup. Look around the league; aside from Detroit (and that too has changed recently) every team has a similar story: few players spend any significant time in the AHL.
3) A good way to look at this would be to look at players who had talent but couldn't make the NHL...then, maybe you can blame Sommer or the development staff. How many examples are there on the Sharks? Lukas Kaspar, Tomas Plihal, maybe? Perhaps Ryan Merkley joins that list...

A problem is that it is easy to paint the narrative either way since we don't know so many details. For example, Chmelevski and Chekovich have been productive at every level but suddenly floundered in the AHL; is that on Sommer, or did the pros expose fundamental problems? Logan Couture took a huge step in his first season out of Ottawa; was that Sommer or was that Couture just putting the work in?

 

[Gecklund]

1) I think we overrate how important development is. Everyone knows what steps a player has to take; the question is whether or not the player has the ability and/or the will to do it.
2) Since the lockout, with the cap in place, teams can't afford to keep their players ripening on the vine. They want that cheap body to fill a hole in the lineup. Look around the league; aside from Detroit (and that too has changed recently) every team has a similar story: few players spend any significant time in the AHL.
3) A good way to look at this would be to look at players who had talent but couldn't make the NHL...then, maybe you can blame Sommer or the development staff. How many examples are there on the Sharks? Lukas Kaspar, Tomas Plihal, maybe? Perhaps Ryan Merkley joins that list...

A problem is that it is easy to paint the narrative either way since we don't know so many details. For example, Chmelevski and Chekovich have been productive at every level but suddenly floundered in the AHL; is that on Sommer, or did the pros expose fundamental problems? Logan Couture took a huge step in his first season out of Ottawa; was that Sommer or was that Couture just putting the work in?

Don’t get me wrong I fully understand it’s partially on the players and the quality of players coming through. I mean we haven’t had many that have the talent of say Couture or Timo. We now have quality players that are coming in or going to be coming in with Wiesblatt, Robins, Bordeleau, Gushchin, Kniazev, etc. coming through the ranks. Sommer is the one that thing that can be changed and in my opinion is the thing that should be changed.

 

[hohosaregood]

There aren't that many skilled guys that toil for very long in the AHL.

 

[LadyStanley]

Schedule update

 

[LadyStanley]

AHL ANNOUNCES PLANS FOR 2021 PLAYOFFS - Henderson Silver Knights

AHL Pacific Division to have division playoff (only one of five divisions that will have post season play).

31 teams begin 21-22 season October 15.

 

[Hobocop]

AHL ANNOUNCES PLANS FOR 2021 PLAYOFFS - Henderson Silver Knights

AHL Pacific Division to have division playoff (only one of five divisions that will have post season play).

31 teams begin 21-22 season October 15.

And the players do not appear to be happy:

 

[Hobocop]

Barracuda are going with 17 skaters tonight, because I think that's all we have available.

 

[one2gamble]

Barracuda are going with 17 skaters tonight, because I think that's all we have available.

This amuses me greatly

 

[LadyStanley]

Joe Will on broadcast with Nollenberger tonight

 

[Hobocop]

Coe scores his first:

 

[hohosaregood]

Coe scores his first:

man i hope Coe makes the NHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

man i hope Coe makes the NHL.

If he puts in the work, he seems to have the talent to make it.

 

[LadyStanley]

McCarthy with Nollenberger in2nd and 3rd.

Cuda 5 for 5 on PP. Kellman with hat trick.

 

[Hobocop]

Shame they didn't show that last power play on postgame, that was some pretty play from Halbgewachs in the buildup to the goal.