Line Combos: Babcock Undermines team potential with dubious lines make-up....

[thewave]

What difference does it make whether he plays Hunlack or Corrado/Carrick/Marincin in the lineup? They're all not really good so it doesn't really matter who we put on defense if our depth is weak. Babcock doesn't really have much options. We don't have good winger depth, we don't have good defenseman, and our back-up got demoted. Just give it a year until we at least start to address those issue and then complain whether Babcock is a good coach or not.

Wait until the end of the season when we shed some crap and put some other people in positions. Just watch us have a strong ending. I am betting on that.

 

[Muston Atthews]

These would be my lines:

Brown-Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Hyman-Kadri-Soshnikov
Komarov-Smith-Martin

Rielly-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Carrick
Warm-Bodies

Andersen
Warm Body

I'd even put JVR on the Matthews line and move Brown/Sosh onto the Marner line. Komarov is hot trash these days as unfortunate as it is to say. Doesn't hit anymore and is not putting up points. I know why he's on the #1PP, to showcase him but he's just not good.

 

[thewave]

These would be my lines:

Brown-Matthews-Nylander
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Hyman-Kadri-Soshnikov
Komarov-Smith-Martin

Rielly-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Carrick
Warm-Bodies

Andersen
Warm Body

I'd even put JVR on the Matthews line and move Brown/Sosh onto the Marner line. Komarov is hot trash these days as unfortunate as it is to say. Doesn't hit anymore and is not putting up points. I know why he's on the #1PP, to showcase him but he's just not good.

JVR-Matthews-Brown
Hyman-Bozak-Marner
Soshnikov-Kadri-Nylander
Michalek-Komarov-Martin

Rielly-Gardiner
Zaitsev-Carrick
Valiev-Best Option

Andersen
Warm Body

 

[dubplatepressure]

Nobody forces you or anybody to come here to discuss. Ignore if you don't like it.

You missed my point : this thread topic and the supporting logic behind it is ridiculous. Of course I'm at liberty to do what I want (but thank you for the reminder).

 

[thewave]

You missed my point : this thread topic and the supporting logic behind it is ridiculous. Of course I'm at liberty to do what I want (but thank you for the reminder).

Ridiculous to you, thank you for your opinion as the topic is not ridiculous to the people contributing. Much appreciated for the chime in though.

 

[Ropesman]

Only on HF will you find people who actually think they know better then an elite coach in the NHL. I find it hilarious when people trash on his coaching style when most couldn't even tell you the first thing about defensive zone coverage, or assignments without hearing someone on TSN or Sportsnet first explaining it.

Everyone needs to stop living in the now with this team. Everything being done by our coaching staff and management is geared towards the FUTURE, and rightly so. Of course Babcock is going to talk playoffs to the media, what do you want him to say? "Yeah we are an exciting team but we really have no chance to actually make the playoffs", that will work wonders when you trying to teach a young team to compete hard night in night out.

IMO Babcock has this team OVER performing for the most part. He is icing a team that is 1/3 rookies, that's unheard of people. Anyone who is realistically looking at the situation would see that he is doing a damn fine job. Arizona is the only comparable as they have a ton of rookies playing this year as well, and they have 5 less points then we do. It doesn't matter who is behind the bench, no coach can stop a young player or team from making young player or team mistakes.

This is year two of our rebuild, anyone who was expecting playoffs or us to win 3 of 5 consistently needs a reality check. IMO we are ahead of schedule in our rebuild, the progress that has already been made in one year is insane.

If the biggest complaint about our current coach is who he has on each line then that's pretty awesome if you ask me.

 

[Duckrider]

oh boy

 

[Ropesman]

It's funny ... it feels like some people always need to find something to complain about. Yes, I tend to look for the positive - but I've also dreamed about my Leafs being in the position they're in now - top prospect pool in the league, AT LEAST 3 Elite rookies, growing depth at every position ...

I don't for a second think that I know more than Babs.

Would I put Shosh with Nylander and Matthews? Sure - I think he has the right level of sandpaper to do Hyman's job, but with more finishing skill.

Am I starting to feel bad for Corrado? Sure.

BUT ... I'm not at the rink all day, every day. I'm not privy to the long term plan he has for each player.

Am I willing to live with some questionable decisions now if it means 23 guys playing to their best potential 2-3 years from now? You bet your ass.

Do I think development is a long term process and having a guy play somewhere he's not used to work on other skill sets is beneficial? You bet.

Reilly is likely restrained to work on his 200 foot game. Nylander is working on back-checking and playing without the puck (which, by the way - I think is working ... I noticed him covering for a pinching D and conscious of the net presence last night!). The D are a "work-in-progress". The management has a plan of who they want to move, and who they want to develop, and don't think for a second that doesn't play into the decisions being made.

We don't know the details people ... I'm not trying to make excuses, but it feels like complaining about a sculpture while the artist is still working the clay.

The Bolded sums it up so perfectly.

Great post as well

 

[Darkside Blue]

You missed my point : this thread topic and the supporting logic behind it is ridiculous. Of course I'm at liberty to do what I want (but thank you for the reminder).

Think the thread should be sticked, as a warning to new and innocent posters, much like the Gates of Hell have the warning "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here" written on them.

 

[The Kessel Run]

I don't know how people can complain about the job Babcock's done. The team is playing infinitely better with a ton of young, energetic and talented players. We're not there yet - but I've seen nothing but positives this year.

 

[Mitchy]

While I do think some people are legitimately frustrated (which is ok), there are others who just bash everything Leaf related, even while seemingly being a Leaf fan.

 

[Ciao]

He's managed to get higher readings on the give-a-**** meter. That alone is a good sign.

 

[Morgs]

If Gards/Carrick were a strong 2nd pairing we'd be comfortably in a playoff spot , Gards is being put in every favorable situation he can be and he still can't produce much offense . He can skate the puck out of our end but does nothing with it after that . He has a low iq , he loses positioning in our end and all around does very little outside of skating around pretty , Carrick is a smaller , slightly smarter but even weaker defender . I could see one being here long term on the 3rd pairing but that's about all i see out of either of them .

Strongly disagree, but keep using the eye test if you think that's the best way.

Hunwick played well last night and has been playing much better after a bad start , his problem is he's a decent 3rd pairing guy that's being asked to do too much . That's on the teams lack of depth and not on him . Every team needs decent/cheap 3rd pairing guys and he's fine until we find a cheap upgrade .

Hunwick played well last night. Everyone on this team had positive corsi though except Ben Smith, William Nylander, and Matt Martin. Are you going to tell me that Polak is a good defenseman too because he wasn't godawful against the Wild?

Bozak is no screaming hell defensively but he's also played with below avg defensive wingers the majority of his time here . This year he still has below avg defensive wingers so while he'd meh defensively he also doesn't get much help either . Marner gets a free pass from me since he's just a kid and the efforts there so he'll probably get better in the future but saying this doesn't mean i'm going to shift all the blame to lines weak defense on Bozak .

Marner actually is a good defensive winger, yes he's a rover, but he's a beast at stopping plays in transition. Bozak is the main issue defensively, but either way he's going to be sheltered so it doesn't matter. Just don't play his line with Hunlack.

Having a good f/a shot differential in sheltered mins means nothing to be , he has a decent skill level but it's not good enough to overcome his lack of physicality . He's basically a big decent skating soft player that does little to nothing .

Marincin is a good player when he doesn't play with Hunwick or Carrick. Weird how him and Carrick don't work. He and Polak are actually a decent pair too strangely enough. It's kind of like how Seth Griffith turned Ben Smith into a replacement level NHL'er (He's right now at best a bad AHL player)

Willie is a smart player but there's a difference between playing a cerebral game and the passive game Willie's playing at this time and Nylander's losing mins because he isn't competing hard enough . Backstrom also tends to play a passive game although i believe he's upped his compete level the last couple of seasons . The guys still young and it isn;t easy to change the way you've played all your life but it on Babs to help him understand how impactful a player he can become if he does get a little more involved .

Willie might be our best forward right now. There's really no use in harping on the fact you perceive his game as "not trying". Just accept him for how good he is.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/11/2...e-the-scapegoat-and-that-s-sadly-unsurprising

Yea i agree with you about Mathews , watching him with Hyman who should be in the A and just runs around gently bumping into people without accomplishing anything shift after shift is depressing . Brown's fine for now but he'd better off with Kads imo . The good thing we have plenty of potential linemates in the pipline and if we don't there's always wingers floating around that we can acquire .

Matthews is a ****ing King. Every time I watch him, all i can think about is "Imagine how good this guy will be in 5 years".

 

[supermann_98]

I'm tired of Babcock's refusal to play Matthews without having the stone handed anchor on his left wing.

Until he changes his approach, and he shows no sign of that ever happening, I won't support him in his claims against Nylander's work ethic or whatever the hell his problem with Willie is

 

[hotpaws]

Strongly disagree, but keep using the eye test if you think that's the best way.

and you keep using Corsi and ignore every other stat -QOC/Zone Starts- and any other stat that doesn't support Corsi

Hunwick played well last night. Everyone on this team had positive corsi though except Ben Smith, William Nylander, and Matt Martin. Are you going to tell me that Polak is a good defenseman too because he wasn't godawful against the Wild?

again with the Corsi , do you actually believe Babs/Lou/Hunter go over the every players Corsi so they can know who did/didn't have a good game ?

Marner actually is a good defensive winger, yes he's a rover, but he's a beast at stopping plays in transition. Bozak is the main issue defensively, but either way he's going to be sheltered so it doesn't matter. Just don't play his line with Hunlack.

no Marner is a winger who works his ass off and people notice when he breaks up a play in transition but he usually does that because he's way out of position and people ignore how being out of position negatively affects team defense

Last night i had zero idea what position he was playing , sometimes he was on his wing , other times he was on the opposite wing right beside JVR , sometimes he was standing at the blue line when the puck was below the red line in the opposition end , basically he was everywhere without any rhyme or reason . The efforts there and better positioning will come but as of now his running around doesn't make for a good defensive player .


Marincin is a good player when he doesn't play with Hunwick or Carrick. Weird how him and Carrick don't work. He and Polak are actually a decent pair too strangely enough. It's kind of like how Seth Griffith turned Ben Smith into a replacement level NHL'er (He's right now at best a bad AHL player)

if Maracin was a good player he'd still be playing , it's not like he was replaced by some star player , Griffiths is crap as well and doing nothing on his latest stop


Willie might be our best forward right now. There's really no use in harping on the fact you perceive his game as "not trying". Just accept him for how good he is.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/11/2...e-the-scapegoat-and-that-s-sadly-unsurprising

I'm not saying Nylander isn't trying , i'm saying he has to learn how to play a more active game without the puck . Some guys grow up playing a certain way and it's not because they're lazy , it's just because there talent allowed them to be successful playing this way so they didn't have to round out there game .

Matthews is a ****ing King. Every time I watch him, all i can think about is "Imagine how good this guy will be in 5 years".

yup AM's a stud and will will get better

 

[TeamBester]

I'm tired of Babcock's refusal to play Matthews without having the stone handed anchor on his left wing.

Until he changes his approach, and he shows no sign of that ever happening, I won't support him in his claims against Nylander's work ethic or whatever the hell his problem with Willie is

He treated Kadri and Rielly with the exact same tough love last year, maybe just maybe he knows what he's doing and fans are a little too short sighted? He's trying/grooming Nylander to be the best centre he can be. Now Nylander and the Leafs want him to be a top six twoway centre. Now all Willy has to do is go out and prove he wants it, because we all know the skill is there.

I'm guessing the all you can eat crow buffet opens sometime in January.

 

[Trapper]

I'm tired of Babcock's refusal to play Matthews without having the stone handed anchor on his left wing.

Until he changes his approach, and he shows no sign of that ever happening, I won't support him in his claims against Nylander's work ethic or whatever the hell his problem with Willie is

Nylander is a top 6 forward but in Noodles opinion, Babcock doesn't trust him on the defensive side yet or with game to game consistent effort.
Hyman,Brown,Soshnikov are not top 6 forwards but Babcock trusts them, loves their work ethic and gets the same consistent effort every game.

If was evident in Babcock's post game interview.

That's where we are right now.

 

[thewave]

Nylander is a top 6 forward but in Noodles opinion, Babcock doesn't trust him on the defensive side yet or with game to game consistent effort.
Hyman,Brown,Soshnikov are not top 6 forwards but Babcock trusts them, loves their work ethic and gets the same consistent effort every game.

If was evident in Babcock's post game interview.

That's where we are right now.

I trust Nylander more than Marner defensively. I think Marner coughed her up 3-4 times last night or made poorly thought out plays that were problematic. It happens a lot. Does not mean i am knocking him. It means Nylander is the whipping boy and this is a Nylash, its a Nylash against William.

 

[saltming]

Only on HF will you find people who actually think they know better then an elite coach in the NHL. I find it hilarious when people trash on his coaching style when most couldn't even tell you the first thing about defensive zone coverage, or assignments without hearing someone on TSN or Sportsnet first explaining it.

Everyone needs to stop living in the now with this team. Everything being done by our coaching staff and management is geared towards the FUTURE, and rightly so. Of course Babcock is going to talk playoffs to the media, what do you want him to say? "Yeah we are an exciting team but we really have no chance to actually make the playoffs", that will work wonders when you trying to teach a young team to compete hard night in night out.

IMO Babcock has this team OVER performing for the most part. He is icing a team that is 1/3 rookies, that's unheard of people. Anyone who is realistically looking at the situation would see that he is doing a damn fine job. Arizona is the only comparable as they have a ton of rookies playing this year as well, and they have 5 less points then we do. It doesn't matter who is behind the bench, no coach can stop a young player or team from making young player or team mistakes.

This is year two of our rebuild, anyone who was expecting playoffs or us to win 3 of 5 consistently needs a reality check. IMO we are ahead of schedule in our rebuild, the progress that has already been made in one year is insane.

If the biggest complaint about our current coach is who he has on each line then that's pretty awesome if you ask me.

I totally agree with you post.
To the bolded: I think Babcock is trying to make the playoffs as that is his job, but at the same time he is coaching the kids to make the playoffs "the right way" as opposed to, ala Carlyle, make the playoffs at any costs.

This is why he is a good coach, he is not willing to sacrifice the long term view for media (or HF posters) accolades.
Stalwart is what we need in a coach and management and that's what we have.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

What difference does it make whether he plays Hunlack or Corrado/Carrick/Marincin in the lineup? They're all not really good so it doesn't really matter who we put on defense if our depth is weak. Babcock doesn't really have much options. We don't have good winger depth, we don't have good defenseman, and our back-up got demoted. Just give it a year until we atleast start to address those issue and then complain whether Babcock is a good coach or not.

Carrick

Corrado



Marincin

Hunwick


Polak

That's how bad they are. Carrick should be a lock among these D, Corrado should be almost a lock but it's been a while since he's played and Marincin's been bad this season but still.

Objectively speaking Hunwick is a LHD and Marincin would be his replacement so it doesn't matter to me. The REAL concern is playing Polak, who's the worst on the team, over Carrick and Corrado. That gives me a headache.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

guys, why have we not targeted Josh Manson? He's a 25 year old 6'3 225 pound RH puck-moving D with amazing shut supression numbers. He would be perfect for Rielly.

Manson plays beside Lindholm, who's amazing himself. But still Manson's numbers both this year and last year were amazingly good.

He might be the Stralman to the Hedman, the Muzzin to the Doughty (when they played together).

 

[Trapper]

guys, why have we not targeted Josh Manson? He's a 25 year old 6'3 225 pound RH puck-moving D with amazing shut supression numbers. He would be perfect for Rielly.

Manson plays beside Lindholm, who's amazing himself. But still Manson's numbers both this year and last year were amazingly good.

He might be the Stralman to the Hedman, the Muzzin to the Doughty (when they played together).

Why we haven't targeted him couldn't say.
He has been mentioned in other threads though. So I agree with the target.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Why we haven't targeted him couldn't say.
He has been mentioned in other threads though. So I agree with the target.

Oh ya, was wondering if he was mentioned on this board.

Does he need to be protected from he expansion draft? Anaheim needs to protect Bieska (NMC or something), Lindholm, Fowler, Vatanen already and Manson if he isn't protected. I don't know who Anaheim's going to trade though.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Ridiculous to you, thank you for your opinion as the topic is not ridiculous to the people contributing. Much appreciated for the chime in though.

Literally directly below your comment: "Only on HF will you find people who actually think they know better then an elite coach in the NHL. "

Pretty sure I'm not the only one. Thanks though. I do enjoy how polite you are.

 

[Muston Atthews]

guys, why have we not targeted Josh Manson? He's a 25 year old 6'3 225 pound RH puck-moving D with amazing shut supression numbers. He would be perfect for Rielly.

Manson plays beside Lindholm, who's amazing himself. But still Manson's numbers both this year and last year were amazingly good.

He might be the Stralman to the Hedman, the Muzzin to the Doughty (when they played together).

Have you thought that Anaheim might not be wanting to move a player with a package like that?