Line Combos: Babcock Undermines team potential with dubious lines make-up....

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Damisoph

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Jun 29, 2010
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I wish Babcock could give us all the info behind his lineup decisions but he can't/won't. I don't think having Willie with some lesser teammates is necessarily a bad thing at this point in his development and I'm satisfied that Babcock knows more about his team than any of us posting on an internet forum.

We're entitled to ***** but I don't put much (any) stock in the opinions expressed here.
 

TS Quint

I can see!
Sep 8, 2012
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You guys ever wonder how Justin Abdelkader got a 7 year 30 million dollar contract? Maybe it was because Babcock had Datsyuk drag him around for years. Get used to it Leaf fans. Piano players need piano pullers was his old saying.
 

saltming

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Oct 6, 2015
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I have worked out. Bozak has gained interest and they are going to move him, but if at practise they put nylander with bozak and they alternate every one will catch wind of it so they are using kadri/nylander until deal is done. :D a man can have dreams cant he?

Keep the dream alive!!
 

Joey Hoser

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Jan 8, 2008
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Why even post this if you agree he is not beyond criticism? The OP basically replied to a post that was pledging alegence to Mike and declared Babcock Pope.

I was responding to the bit about "So the answer to life is to blindly trust and have the faith".
 

Field of Dreams

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
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You said don't question coaches because we're not one.
The point is, Babcock could totally fail here. Would he still be the best coach in the world?
Does it matter now what he did in Detroit?

All I'm saying is I don't think we should proclaim that noone else could be better here because coaches have different strengths, systems, philosophies etc that may work for one team, and not another.

We should trust babcock because of his experience and pedegree of success as an NHL coach (experience), he has vastly more information to make lineup decisions upon through working with the playing some (perspective), and has the support of experts utilizing analytics and pro scouts analyzing video (insight).

As fans, we just simply cannot judge lineup decisions for these reasons. It's fun to talk about about lineup ideas and so forth, but to say we know better than our management and coaching staff is foolish.

To touch upon your question, that's very situational, and depends on how he failed, what he failed with, and how close he came to success. Right now he's widely considered the best, and at the very least, one of the best.
 

Field of Dreams

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Oct 10, 2011
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You guys ever wonder how Justin Abdelkader got a 7 year 30 million dollar contract? Maybe it was because Babcock had Datsyuk drag him around for years. Get used to it Leaf fans. Piano players need piano pullers was his old saying.

The coach is not responsible for contract negotiations. It's your GMs fault for not letting him walk and signing or trading for a cheaper piano puller
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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You guys ever wonder how Justin Abdelkader got a 7 year 30 million dollar contract? Maybe it was because Babcock had Datsyuk drag him around for years. Get used to it Leaf fans. Piano players need piano pullers was his old saying.

I think it's a near certainty that Hyman gets 5+years his next contract
 

BoredBrandonPridham

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Aug 9, 2011
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I went away for 5 days on a business trip and wtf is going on?? This is ron-wilson, Kadri-is-our-up-and-coming-franchise-center, leafs-are-trying-to-make-the-playoffs level depression going on in here.
 

SmoggyTwinkles

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Aug 5, 2010
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My guess is they are grooming Nylander to take over for Bozak when he gets moved. So he needs to be playing and developing at centre right now. Bozy should look fairly attractive to teams making a push later in the year.

Matthews, Kadri and Bozy aren't shifting to wing so..

What is this development thing you're talking about? I've heard the word but I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to do that in Toronto with stuff like having Nylander centering the 4th line or having Matthews work with a board grinder etc.

People need to not worry this year. Every year Shanny has been here there has been a clear plan that was visible if you look.

They are developing the team this year. Next year their "patience" will run out and they will start moving guys together for the best chance to win. This year they are putting guys in situations that don't necessarily work for their skillset because they are trying to teach these guys things they want them to understand for the system they have in mind moving forward.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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I have to say that once everyone locks in to a agreed on mindset around our board, trying to engage new ideas or thinking is met with brainwashed type hostility. There is nothing that looking at the roster insists this is absolutely not a playoff team.

I think this team should be twisted, bent and shaped every way possible to succeed and make the playoffs. Example, any other decent backup goalie would have gotten us a few points and kept us right in the wildcard mix.

All i hear is guarded lowest possible expectations.Anything suggesting possibly a higher standard should be the goal is seen as ridiculous treachery. Lol i want a higher standard as quickly as possible for this young group.

Stick Kadri on Matthews left side and get Willy some solid checking center work but enough of the fourth line B.s from Babcock.It can't come to a end quick enough. If they don't get cracking within the next month it is another year to go for the high pick.

January 7th is the halfway point and it will dictate the teams path depending on where the team sits in the standings. Babcock though is tanking this team with dubious decisions.Just ****ing Wonderful! Everyone knows how tactfully he tanked it last year too.

I don't really enjoy watching him do it this year as opposed to fully agreeing with it quietly last year. I think its unfair to fans this year to deliberately obstruct the best possible results as he has.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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I think you're delusional. The Leafs are not tanking.

There is a thread up that indicates lots think they are. They are tanking by the looks of it and I don't care what you think really. You are just that insignificant with your rude demeanour.
 

indigobuffalo

Portage and Main
Feb 10, 2011
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Winnipeg MB
Solid lines are built by having a puck retriever, playmaker, and goal scorer.

Putting Hyman on the top line makes sense because he's very good at retrieving pucks for the playmaker to make plays with.

Each of our lines is designed this way.

It can't understand how this seems so foreign to everyone here that we have a 420 post thread discussing how terrible it is that Hyman is taking up Marner's spot.

Marner is not going to be used as a guy to go into corners and battle for pucks. He's not built for that.

So who would do it then? Nylander? Matthews??

Not one of them could handle that night in night out.

Hyman CAN.

At best you can argue that JVR be put with Matthews/Nylander or whatever but the depth is being spread out rather than focused on a single line.

Let's just move on with our lives...
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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If the Leafs would have wanted to tank, they had dozens of things they could do that would seriously impact our chances this season. They didn't.

If the Leafs would have wanted to tank, putting Hyman over a Soshnikov on a top nine line would be among the most inconsequential ways they could try to achieve that. Putting Corrado outside the lineup a runner-up in that contest.

Now, if the Leafs kept Marner in junior, put Hunwick on the top pairing, made sure to play Enroth a lot to ease Andersen into things, kept Michalek and Laich on the roster playing important minutes etc then yeah, we might have a case to at least discuss it. Guess what? They didn't. In fact, they made sure that all of our big guns are on the team playing big minutes which would be among the most stupid thing you can do if you want to tank.
 

Quarter

The caravan moves on
Mar 3, 2011
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If the Leafs would have wanted to tank, they had dozens of things they could do that would seriously impact our chances this season. They didn't.

If the Leafs would have wanted to tank, putting Hyman over a Soshnikov on a top nine line would be among the most inconsequential ways they could try to achieve that. Putting Corrado outside the lineup a runner-up in that contest.

Now, if the Leafs kept Marner in junior, put Hunwick on the top pairing, made sure to play Enroth a lot to ease Andersen into things, kept Michalek and Laich on the roster playing important minutes etc then yeah, we might have a case to at least discuss it. Guess what? They didn't. In fact, they made sure that all of our big guns are on the team playing big minutes which would be among the most stupid thing you can do if you want to tank.
This is a fantastic post. So is indigo's.

The bolded in particular.
 

ErnieLeafs

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
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To suggest that this team, and Babcock in particular, is tanking, is absurd. We tossed a 1st round pick at a #1 goalie, and proceeded to pay him handsomely. Our best players are playing big minutes. As Nith stated, the dead weight has been buried in the minors, or sent off in trades.

This is what proper development looks like. I think we would all be ecstatic to see this team make the playoffs, and in reality, we're far from out of the conversation.

The notion that Babs is purposely holding back the development of the players that may one day lead him to hockey's holy grail; a Stanley Cup in Toronto, is nothing short of absent minded conspiracy.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
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So much nonsense in this thread. Babcock is a great coach teaching a young team, and we sure as hell ain't tanking.

Even with our recent skid, we have a. 500 record at the moment. We have a few games in hand on many teams ahead of us in the standings.

All things considered, 10-10-5 is very respectable with the amount of inexperience on our roster. The vitriol after 25 games is a joke.
 

Diatomic

Mitch Matthewlander
Mar 12, 2013
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So much nonsense in this thread. Babcock is a great coach teaching a young team, and we sure as hell ain't tanking.

Even with our recent skid, we have a. 500 record at the moment. We have a few games in hand on many teams ahead of us in the standings.

All things considered, 10-10-5 is very respectable with the amount of inexperience on our roster. The vitriol after 25 games is a joke.

10-10-5 is terrible. Realistcally its 10-15. We have 3 rookies lighting it up and Anderson gives us a chance to win every night. Ridiculous line combinations is why were losing so many games. If our rookies were struggling I'd agree with you but their not, the vets are the ones struggling.
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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This is a fantastic post. So is indigo's.

The bolded in particular.

Hey, thanks!

10-10-5 is terrible. Realistcally its 10-15. We have 3 rookies lighting it up and Anderson gives us a chance to win every night. Ridiculous line combinations is why were losing so many games. If our rookies were struggling I'd agree with you but their not, the vets are the ones struggling.

Bozak, JVR, Kadri, Komarov, Gardiner and Andersen are the vets playing big minutes. Of them, only Komarov is struggling and that's in an offensive capacity.

We are losing games because we are a rebuilding, inexperienced team that need growth and experience to become competitive.

Your point would hold water if it was in fact some of our lines that were ineffectual. They are not. We are producing offense across all three scoring lines, and our forward core have been effective.

For some reason, every single NHL team tends to be coached by idiots according to their fans due to not using lines that they themselves have theorized would be good. Not saying a coach is infallible, but that if you want to make that case, you better have some good arguments.

If you look at how our losses come to be, they have two things in common: 1) Goaltending, which is usually correlated but in our case it was especially clear in the beginning of the season 2) Inconsistency, we score in bunches which is exactly what you'd expect of a team heavily relying on rookies.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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10-10-5 is terrible. Realistcally its 10-15. We have 3 rookies lighting it up and Anderson gives us a chance to win every night. Ridiculous line combinations is why were losing so many games. If our rookies were struggling I'd agree with you but their not, the vets are the ones struggling.

I'm not saying the vets are perfect but what exactly were you expecting? Komarov hasn't been great offensively but Kadri,Bozak and JVR are 3 of our top 5 scorers, what other vet did you expect better results from? Also Andersen has been great but he had a rough start to the season.
 

egd27

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Jul 8, 2011
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This last part is false. We can certainly challenge his decisions and some have. I think Hyman is a black hole overall and most agree Babcock has his faults Clear(l)y

You missed the part about lacking the insight or experience to challenge them.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you cannot claim to have any expertise to base it on.

The guy you're challenging does.
 

diceman934

Help is on the way.
Jul 31, 2010
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I've followed them for the last 20+ years but if Hyman gets a 5 year deal, I think that's about as far as I could go.



Lol...you should leave now then...getting a 5 year deal is no big deal if the money and terms are fine. 5 years at 2M per is a good contract for a player like Hyman
 
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