Babcock thread: Decision Expected 5/20/15 (SEE MOD WARNING IN OP AND POST 568)

[GBFP]

If Buffalo offered that, Babcock needs to go. I mean for the sake of raising the income of his whole profession. $6M is more than doubling what the highest aid coach in the league gets - and would be a game changer in the hockey coaching ranks.

Babcock likes to win, but he also likes to teach and mold kids. I mean why else would he be intrigued by coaching at Michigan?

No way he can leave 2.5M on the table to come back to Detroit. Detroit would have to add at least another $1M to their offer and I don't think Holland sees that much difference between Babcock and Blashill - you could get the latter for half the current Babcock offer...

 

[Jussha]

Heaton raises a good issue and I agree that without significant roster movement even with a new voice in Blashill the wings probably don't do any better next season. The important thing though is sometimes even with a new voice you have to accept the growing pains for what it brings after that. In Babcock's first season here we had a crazy regular season as we have always had, but we still lost in the first round to the Oilers, but the following season you saw Datsyuk and Zetterberg under Babcock start to become real leaders of this team and then the following year it really did seem like the team was ready to win a cup.

So even if Blashill doesn't do any better in his first year than Babcock did this past season, it might simply be necessary to make this switch and 2 or 3 years later we see Nyquist and Tatar and some of the other young guys become the new leaders of this team that might be able to win us another cup, who knows if that happens or not, but like flashyG also said, we're basically grooming Blashill to be our next coach of the future and do we really want to invest all this time into him just so he can become the coach of another NHL team?

I think Babcock is an awesome coach, but i think for the long-term health of this team and this rebuild on the fly that Holland is trying to do that we simply need to make the switch. We won't do any better next season, but as part of the evolution of our new core if they're gonna contend for a title 2 or 3 years down the road I think the switch has to happen, I don't think it happens in 2 to 3 years if Babcock is still the coach since Holland won't make many moves to give Babcock what he wants with the roster based on how the last few offseasons have went down.

 

[Z40]

Unless of course, Buffalo turns him into the first bionic coach.

The 6 Million dollar Babs will be stronger, faster, realgudder.

I smell a Flashy GDT if Babs goes to BUF.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

If Buffalo offered that, Babcock needs to go. I mean for the sake of raising the income of his whole profession. $6M is more than doubling what the highest aid coach in the league gets - and would be a game changer in the hockey coaching ranks.

Babcock likes to win, but he also likes to teach and mold kids. I mean why else would he be intrigued by coaching at Michigan?

No way he can leave 2.5M on the table to come back to Detroit. Detroit would have to add at least another $1M to their offer and I don't think Holland sees that much difference between Babcock and Blashill - you could get the latter for half the current Babcock offer...

If he gets that much, I'm convinced he'd be considered more of an outlier than a precedent-setter.

But yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I'm sure he loves winning and all, but that's an awful lot of money to leave on the table.

 

[Winger98]

I think Nolan has a lot of baggage (FWIW). Hope he catches on somewhere and gets another chance soon. Unlikely though.

Oh, definitely agree about the baggage. I still remember his near constant fights with Hasek that bordered on the bizarre. He almost always seemed to get more out of his teams than they appeared to have to give, though.

Unless of course, Buffalo turns him into the first bionic coach.

The 6 Million dollar Babs will be stronger, faster, realgudder.

If only he could get the same mechanics to do something with Cleary, but sometimes there just isn't enough to work with.

 

[Claypool]

If Buffalo offered that, Babcock needs to go. I mean for the sake of raising the income of his whole profession. $6M is more than doubling what the highest aid coach in the league gets - and would be a game changer in the hockey coaching ranks.

Not really. The Flyers just signed a coach with no NHL experience. How much do you think his salary is? Probably in the bottom half of the league. Clearly teams have no problem going with youth and inexperience in the position. Then there's always going to be quality head coaches looking for work that will take less money just to have a job. There's a few Stanley Cup winning coaches available right now if you want one.

Babcock isn't going to coach Buffalo and risk his career for the greater as part of some crusade to increase coaching salaries. It's a made up story by the media.

 

[Winger98]

Not really. The Flyers just signed a coach with no NHL experience. How much do you think his salary is? Probably in the bottom half of the league. Clearly teams have no problem going with youth and inexperience in the position. Then there's always going to be quality head coaches looking for work that will take less money just to have a job. There's a few Stanley Cup winning coaches available right now if you want one.

Babcock isn't going to coach Buffalo and risk his career for the greater as part of some crusade to increase coaching salaries. It's a made up story by the media.

He wouldn't be risking his career. Bowman put in a pretty miserable tenure in Buffalo, then went to Pittsburgh and won and then came here and won. Babcock could go to Buffalo, collect his payday for a few years, then probably move on to a choice gig somewhere else.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Can Buffalo Sabres' big bucks, young talent lure Mike Babcock away from Detroit Red Wings?

would seem like he's gone.

 

[Boomhower]

Heaton raises a good issue and I agree that without significant roster movement even with a new voice in Blashill the wings probably don't do any better next season. The important thing though is sometimes even with a new voice you have to accept the growing pains for what it brings after that. In Babcock's first season here we had a crazy regular season as we have always had, but we still lost in the first round to the Oilers, but the following season you saw Datsyuk and Zetterberg under Babcock start to become real leaders of this team and then the following year it really did seem like the team was ready to win a cup.

So even if Blashill doesn't do any better in his first year than Babcock did this past season, it might simply be necessary to make this switch and 2 or 3 years later we see Nyquist and Tatar and some of the other young guys become the new leaders of this team that might be able to win us another cup, who knows if that happens or not, but like flashyG also said, we're basically grooming Blashill to be our next coach of the future and do we really want to invest all this time into him just so he can become the coach of another NHL team?

I think Babcock is an awesome coach, but i think for the long-term health of this team and this rebuild on the fly that Holland is trying to do that we simply need to make the switch. We won't do any better next season, but as part of the evolution of our new core if they're gonna contend for a title 2 or 3 years down the road I think the switch has to happen, I don't think it happens in 2 to 3 years if Babcock is still the coach since Holland won't make many moves to give Babcock what he wants with the roster based on how the last few offseasons have went down.

I don't think the Wings were too far off this year. They took Tampa to game 7, despite completely throwing away that game 4 lead. Then played without Kronwall in the deciding game because of a questionable suspension. I mean Tampa could represent the East in the final and we had great chances to knock them out.

... And yes I believe we would have dusted Montreal (then lost to NYR). I was hopeing for Montreal instead of Tampa in the first round all along.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that Blashill will have growing pains, but it will be for the greater good. I'm just saying this years team wasn't as far off as people think. A healthy Cole and Franzen might have changed things too

 

[Fugu]

Did Hull play for Babcock? I laugh because I feel it's a non-story, everyone has issues with their boss every once in a while.

I think Hull was with Phoenix at the time, but was reporting chatter he heard back from his buddies here.

Take the money and run Babs.

Honestly, even if I wanted him back I'd tell him to take Pegula's money. $5-6MM? THat's crazy.

Heaton raises a good issue and I agree that without significant roster movement even with a new voice in Blashill the wings probably don't do any better next season. The important thing though is sometimes even with a new voice you have to accept the growing pains for what it brings after that. In Babcock's first season here we had a crazy regular season as we have always had, but we still lost in the first round to the Oilers, but the following season you saw Datsyuk and Zetterberg under Babcock start to become real leaders of this team and then the following year it really did seem like the team was ready to win a cup.

<snip>

It was a rough start, as Babs admitted his style at first did NOT fit the team. That is according to him, so no arguing there.

Furthermore, Holland and Babs bumped heads initially due to the puck possession vs Babs's preferences too. That had to get worked out too.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I don't think the Wings were too far off this year. They took Tampa to game 7, despite completely throwing away that game 4 lead. Then played without Kronwall in the deciding game because of a questionable suspension. I mean Tampa could represent the East in the final and we had great chances to knock them out.

... And yes I believe we would have dusted Montreal (then lost to NYR). I was hopeing for Montreal instead of Tampa in the first round all along.

I'm not disagreeing with your point that Blashill will have growing pains, but it will be for the greater good. I'm just saying this years team wasn't as far off as people think. A healthy Cole and Franzen might have changed things too

So many excuses though. Good teams win when the stakes are raised. This team has shown an inability to do so.

All this talk about anything can happen in the playoffs, and I don't see it. Sure, there's parity, but the best teams consistently end up on top.

 

[Sabretip]

Babcock likes to win, but he also likes to teach and mold kids. I mean why else would he be intrigued by coaching at Michigan?

He does? This isn't reported that often - I thought he was more of a coach that rides his veteran stars and defers to them, even when he has talented rookies on the roster.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Sabres' money should trump Babcock's love of Detroit, coaching source says

He does? This isn't reported that often - I thought he was more of a coach that rides his veteran stars and defers to them, even when he has talented rookies on the roster.

used to be but has gotten much better at that the past two seasons.

though he'd probably still lean on vet all things equal (or even an edge on rookie unless he plays like vet) but he didn't have much of a choice though.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Scotty Bowman was a tremendous coach. Hall of fame definitely, greatest of all time possibly. He also quit twice after feuding with management, got fired in Buffalo, and turned down an extension in Pittsburgh to get more power in a new organization... here. Those are all behaviors that people would be crucifying Babcock for if they became public

Paying a coach 5 mil per is not going to be a big deal soon, just like paying a coach 2-3 stopped being a big deal a few years after the first guy made that much. It doesn't impact the cap, it's not like the Wings haven't been making money hand over fist under the past two CBAs, and it's not like they won't make money even larger hands over even larger fists once they get their new arena built.

The next coach is highly unlikely to be a better coach than Babcock. He will be a different coach, though... and sometimes that's enough to make a change desirable.

 

[Heaton]

He does? This isn't reported that often - I thought he was more of a coach that rides his veteran stars and defers to them, even when he has talented rookies on the roster.

Babcock has always wanted to insert younger players in the roster, Holland hasn't allowed him to. People seem to think that Babcock has held some kids from getting spots on the roster, if he had it his way many of the kids who came up later would've been inserted in the roster years earlier.

 

[Fugu]

He does? This isn't reported that often - I thought he was more of a coach that rides his veteran stars and defers to them, even when he has talented rookies on the roster.

It's just the one poster's opinion. On the Wings board, there has been a battle over who was the bigger road block to bringing in younger players. It's either Holland or Babcock, though it realistically could be both.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

If Babcock chooses Buffalo and gets a huge payday he isn't going to greatly affect the salaries of coaches who are breaking into the league like in Philly, or even guys who got fired and are finding a new job.... At first.

It will affect coaches who are successful that are coming up on contract. They will want to be paid in line with Babcock, or move on to a team who will pay them.

 

[Retire91]

Babcock has always wanted to insert younger players in the roster, Holland hasn't allowed him to. People seem to think that Babcock has held some kids from getting spots on the roster, if he had it his way many of the kids who came up later would've been inserted in the roster years earlier.

I would be interested to know more about this I always thought coach made the decisions on who goes up and down. I guess maybe that changed with the cap now that salary structure plays a role in the roster? I thought it was commonly accepted that Babcock preference was the veterans.

Edit: never mind a previous post kinda cleared up where this stands. IMO both babcock and holland share the blame of stacking the roster with veteran plugs lol I guess I was just interested because if babcock was truely stonewalled from playing younger players that would change my oppinion on him a lot but from what I have seen his actions tend to lean veteran all the way.

 

[Fugu]

Scotty Bowman was a tremendous coach. Hall of fame definitely, greatest of all time possibly. He also quit twice after feuding with management, got fired in Buffalo, and turned down an extension in Pittsburgh to get more power in a new organization... here. Those are all behaviors that people would be crucifying Babcock for if they became public.

By some, perhaps, but not something I'd hold over him. I agree with your last point-- sometimes a change to something different is what's desirable. I don't think that there's one coach or system/style that works in exactly the same way on all teams. We may be at that point.

Paying a coach 5 mil per is not going to be a big deal soon, just like paying a coach 2-3 stopped being a big deal a few years after the first guy made that much. It doesn't impact the cap, it's not like the Wings haven't been making money hand over fist under the past two CBAs, and it's not like they won't make money even larger hands over even larger fists once they get their new arena built.

The next coach is highly unlikely to be a better coach than Babcock. He will be a different coach, though... and sometimes that's enough to make a change desirable.

I'm not sure it's as lucrative for the Wings as you suggest. They're spending somewhat less than their peak before the cap was put in place. However, they pay into revenue transfer (the top ten HRR teams to help the lower two-thirds). Their ticket prices have been stagnant for quite some time, thanks to the local economy, and they have to work harder to sell out since this isn't the bona fide championship team they had in the late 90s and through 2009.

Finally, they aren't getting as deep into the playoffs, which is something they did reasonably frequently before. That's worth a ton more money for them.

 

[Heaton]

I would be interested to know more about this I always thought coach made the decisions on who goes up and down. I guess maybe that changed with the cap now that salary structure plays a role in the roster? I thought it was commonly accepted that Babcock preference was the veterans.

Edit: never mind a previous post kinda cleared up where this stands. IMO both babcock and holland share the blame of stacking the roster with veteran plugs lol I guess I was just interested because if babcock was truely stonewalled from playing younger players that would change my oppinion on him a lot but from what I have seen his actions tend to lean veteran all the way.

Babcock had been public in the past about wanting Leino, Helm, Ericsson, Smith, XO etc... on the roster. He even made a joke about only getting 1/3rd the say in who is on the roster or not. Babcock can only coach who the GM allows him to keep.

 

[Moskau]

Any ideas who Babcock could have in mind for assistants if he does choose Buffalo? Anyone know what his relationship with Jim Paek was before he left for SK Hockey Director?

 

[deltawing]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12914535/mike-babcock-buffalo-sabres-contract-talks

It's on ESPN now

 

[Fugu]

Babcock had been public in the past about wanting Leino, Helm, Ericsson, Smith, XO etc... on the roster. He even made a joke about only getting 1/3rd the say in who is on the roster or not. Babcock can only coach who the GM allows him to keep.

Lilja, Cleary, Sammy, Filppula....

.... and not Hudler.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

He does? This isn't reported that often - I thought he was more of a coach that rides his veteran stars and defers to them, even when he has talented rookies on the roster.

He said last season that coaching the kidswas the most fun he'd had in years.

Random thought - Babcock is NEVER going to win the Jack Adams in Detroit, the only trophy missing from his resume. We're not bad enough to be a Cinderella team, and not good enough to dominate the league (and if he couldn't win it in 08, I don't know what it would take). If he could lead Buffalo to 8th, the media would be tripping over themselves to give him the award.

 

[Vladdy84]

Really miss Cap Geek right now. Would love to go see pending free agents the Wings may be able to lure here with the departure of Babcock.