Rumor: Babcock linked to Pens rumors

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I figured he wasn't going anywhere. Babs coaching this year was interesting. I thought he was awful for the first month or so, choosing guys like Samuelsson and Cleary over Tatar while Nyquist rotted in the minors. However, in the wake of all the injuries, I thought he was phenomenal, but once the team got healthy, I was bewildered by his line up decisions. I'm genuinely curious what he does next season. I DO think he's the best coach in the NHL but I'm not sure if he's the right fit here anymore.

 

[InjuredChoker]

13. In the last 30 Thoughts, it was mentioned that there likely will be a debate at the Stanley Cup GM meetings about the possibility of compensation for losing a hockey employee to another team. It sounds like the proposal will be a second-round selection, with the team doing the hiring having a window of several seasons to give up the pick. It's also possible there may some kind of age/experience limit, so veteran coaches/execs would be able to leave freely, as long as the new position is a promotion.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/ho...crease-wont-ease-penguins-roster-dilemma.html

some good osgood quotes on the link too, though not related to this compensation stuff.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I Never said he wouldn't be resigned.I Just don't think he's as good of a coach as you obviously do. It is just my opinion.

And I stand by my earlier statement that it is a ridiculous one.

Babcock's system objectively is still working. The Wings lost to Boston because of a clear talent deficiency (injury, retirement, and experience caused). They lost to Chicago three straight last year because Chicago kept getting 2 and 3-on-1s because the Hawks were much more skilled. It's not an opinion. The Red Wings overall have less talent and experience than many teams in the league and they've been making the playoffs with regularity. Edmonton plays a bunch of kids and they finish with the worst record in the league. Detroit does it and makes the playoffs.

You don't have to think that Babcock is Hockey Jesus or anything, but you also shouldn't invent facts to back up your opinion or handwave stuff like Detroit being minus their captain, their best player, and a top pairing D for large chunks of time.

The only reason I took umbrage with anything you said and called it ridiculous is because you're using the fact that the Wings lost to the Hawks and Bruins in the last two playoff years (i.e. the teams who played for the Cup last year) as evidence that Babcock needs to go... and that's not being at all fair. Especially this year when he was down three of his best players and lost his starting goalie mid series.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Babcock will sign an extension if he thinks the Wings rebuild on the fly actually worked.

This season should answer that question.

If Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan and Smith continue to improve and take on even more responsibility, he sticks around for another five years, or less if they win a cup sooner.

Winning two cups on the same team, with a rebuild sandwiched between them, makes Babcock look like the hockey whisperer.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Babcock will sign an extension if he thinks the Wings rebuild on the fly actually worked.

This season should answer that question.

If Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan and Smith continue to improve and take on even more responsibility, he sticks around for another five years, or less if they win a cup sooner.

This sound pretty accurate to me

 

[Johnz96*]

All the Pittsburgh media is talking and tweeting how Babcock is saying that he wants to coach Pittsburgh, and are also saying he is using it as leverage against the Wings. I don't buy it for one second but figured I would see how everyone else feels.

On my phone but will try to edit to add the tweets and links when I can.

Hope so

 

[Obe2kenobe]

And I stand by my earlier statement that it is a ridiculous one.

Babcock's system objectively is still working. The Wings lost to Boston because of a clear talent deficiency (injury, retirement, and experience caused). They lost to Chicago three straight last year because Chicago kept getting 2 and 3-on-1s because the Hawks were much more skilled. It's not an opinion. The Red Wings overall have less talent and experience than many teams in the league and they've been making the playoffs with regularity. Edmonton plays a bunch of kids and they finish with the worst record in the league. Detroit does it and makes the playoffs.

You don't have to think that Babcock is Hockey Jesus or anything, but you also shouldn't invent facts to back up your opinion or handwave stuff like Detroit being minus their captain, their best player, and a top pairing D for large chunks of time.

The only reason I took umbrage with anything you said and called it ridiculous is because you're using the fact that the Wings lost to the Hawks and Bruins in the last two playoff years (i.e. the teams who played for the Cup last year) as evidence that Babcock needs to go... and that's not being at all fair. Especially this year when he was down three of his best players and lost his starting goalie mid series.

I didn't invent facts. I misspoke, I was thinking about the first rd. Loss to Nashville.
Your blaming the players when they lose, and giving the coach the credit when they win, makes no sense.I stand by MY previous statement, Babcock is overrated.
And who retired that effected this year? Lidstrom retired in the 2011-12 season. That is a fact.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I didn't invent facts. I misspoke, I was thinking about the first rd. Loss to Nashville.
Your blaming the players when they lose, and giving the coach the credit when they win, makes no sense.I stand by MY previous statement, Babcock is overrated.
And who retired that effected this year? Lidstrom retired in the 2011-12 season. That is a fact.

1). The Wings looked awful in that Predators series. They got out coached in that one badly. That Nashville team was designed to beat the Wings and it worked to perfection.

2). I'm not blaming the players so much as stating a fact. The Red Wings were simply less capable than Boston or Chicago. And it is a testament to how good Jimmy Howard was last year that they almost upset the Hawks. And when the players are objectively worse but put on a great series... A lot of that has to be coaching.

3). You didn't say Babcock was overrated. You said his system was no longer working. That implies something a great deal bigger than overrated. You want him gone for failing to win in the playoffs against superior teams.

4). And it didn't necessarily have to be a retirement this year. The Wings lost Nick, Rafalski, and Brad Stuart in very rapid succession and then missed out on Suter. That is why they lack talent and are weaker at the time being. They went from three or four exceptional puck moving D men to one in a span of two years and due to the rarity of good PMDs, could not replace them right away without giving stupid money or dealing out a ton in prospects... And since they're rebuilding they weren't going to do that.

And #4 is why I give Babcock a ton of credit. The overall talent of the Wings at the NHL level has declined and where they could have folded up this year with all the injuries without anyone blaming them, he got the old fossils and the young kids to buy into defensive hockey to make the playoffs again.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

1). The Wings looked awful in that Predators series. They got out coached in that one badly. That Nashville team was designed to beat the Wings and it worked to perfection.

2). I'm not blaming the players so much as stating a fact. The Red Wings were simply less capable than Boston or Chicago. And it is a testament to how good Jimmy Howard was last year that they almost upset the Hawks. And when the players are objectively worse but put on a great series... A lot of that has to be coaching.

3). You didn't say Babcock was overrated. You said his system was no longer working. That implies something a great deal bigger than overrated. You want him gone for failing to win in the playoffs against superior teams.

4). And it didn't necessarily have to be a retirement this year. The Wings lost Nick, Rafalski, and Brad Stuart in very rapid succession and then missed out on Suter. That is why they lack talent and are weaker at the time being. They went from three or four exceptional puck moving D men to one in a span of two years and due to the rarity of good PMDs, could not replace them right away without giving stupid money or dealing out a ton in prospects... And since they're rebuilding they weren't going to do that.

And #4 is why I give Babcock a ton of credit. The overall talent of the Wings at the NHL level has declined and where they could have folded up this year with all the injuries without anyone blaming them, he got the old fossils and the young kids to buy into defensive hockey to make the playoffs again.

I did say he was overrated in post #141. I don't think there talent level is all that different than teams like Boston and Chicago. Most of the games with Boston were close, and could have gone the other way with a goal here or there.
I do agree the wings need some better defenseman. Babcock playing Dekyser on the PP, instead of Smith is another bad decision in my opinion. He's never been a offensive defenseman. Experimenting with it is fine, but if it's not working pull the plug. Try something else. That is one of his problems, he waits too long when things aren't working.(Cleary, Dekyser on the PP)
And also, I never said I wanted him gone. I simply said it wouldn't bother me, and would rather lose him than Blashill.

 

[Oobz]

I think Babcock is a great coach. I can't imagine any coach winning a cup with a team this soft.

 

[Vladdy84]

I think Babcock is a great coach. I can't imagine any coach winning a cup with a team this soft.

Blackhawks seem to do alright.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Blackhawks seem to do alright.

Blackhawks also have Toews, Kane, and Keith in their primes right now. Back when the Wings had Datsyuk and Zetterberg in their primes and Lidstrom slowly declining out of his, they were up on top in the league.

 

[iwtb*]

I think Babcock is a great coach. I can't imagine any coach winning a cup with a team this soft.

Well Babcock is one of the main rasons Red WIngs is this this soft.

E. And Hawks are not even close as soft as Red WIngs. Not even close really.

 

[Heaton]

Well Babcock is one of the main rasons Red WIngs is this this soft.

Interesting, care to elaborate?

 

[Vladdy84]

Speaking of not soft. The Rangers rolled out Carcillo-Boyle-Dorsett as their 4th line last night.

 

[Frk It]

Speaking of not soft. The Rangers rolled out Carcillo-Boyle-Dorsett as their 4th line last night.

You know who none of those players are like? Drew Miller.

 

[iwtb*]

Interesting, care to elaborate?

He just don't play guys who are more gritty. In his eyes guys like Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton etc. useless players are more valuable than guys like Tootoo or other tougher guys.

 

[Heaton]

He just don't play guys who are more gritty. In his eyes guys like Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton etc. useless players are more valuable than guys like Tootoo or other tougher guys.

Those are the players that Holland gives him, and I highly doubt Tootoo does much to change anything especially considering he was getting benched in Grand Rapids.

 

[iwtb*]

Anyway if we had Carcillo,Boyle and Dorsett Babcock would bench them all. Or maybe he would play Boyle..

 

[Frk It]

He just don't play guys who are more gritty. In his eyes guys like Sammy, Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton etc. useless players are more valuable than guys like Tootoo or other tougher guys.

That really has more to do with special teams, than anything.

Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton are all PKers in Babcocks eyes, but tootoo isn't.

I don't agree with it. But I don't think it has to do with guys being soft.

 

[SoupNazi]

That really has more to do with special teams, than anything.

Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton are all PKers in Babcocks eyes, but tootoo isn't.

I don't agree with it. But I don't think it has to do with guys being soft.

Nope, and Tootoo has never really played on special teams.

I don't agree about Cleary or Emmerton being PKers, either, but Tootoo isn't either, IMO.

 

[SoupNazi]

Anyway if we had Carcillo,Boyle and Dorsett Babcock would bench them all. Or maybe he would play Boyle..

That's not true at all.

 

[Vladdy84]

That really has more to do with special teams, than anything.

Cleary, Eaves, Emmerton are all PKers in Babcocks eyes, but tootoo isn't.

I don't agree with it. But I don't think it has to do with guys being soft.

I've also noticed that NYR plays some of their best players on the PK. Not the bottom 6'ers the Wings usually throw out there. The Wings only have Dats and Z out on occasion and it's pretty much just to win the face off.

 

[Heaton]

Anyway if we had Carcillo,Boyle and Dorsett Babcock would bench them all. Or maybe he would play Boyle..

Babcock plays who Holland gives him. Babcock played the hell out of Drake, Maltby, Draper, Helm etc... He plays Abdelkader up lines. Cleary was extremely gritty when he could skate. Your arguments don't hold much water especially considering the circumstances.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

I've also noticed that NYR plays some of their best players on the PK. Not the bottom 6'ers the Wings usually throw out there. The Wings only have Dats and Z out on occasion and it's pretty much just to win the face off.

I've noticed that as well. Other teams PK are much more aggressive with possession of the puck. Guys like Glendening and Miller just ice the puck when they get possession.They lack the speed and skill to keep the puck or even be a threat offensively.