Confirmed with Link: Avs Re-Sign Byram to 2-year × $3.85M Deal

[Pokecheque]

If the Avs had traded Toews they’d be in really big trouble right now.

 

[Ararana]

If the Avs had traded Toews they’d be in really big trouble right now.

If Toews was gone, it means they have a real 2C and the forward group is significantly better. The hit they take on defense is balanced out by them having proper center depth for the first time since Kadri.

And Toews hasn't exactly been great this year. Jack Johnson has been outplaying him a surprising number of games this season so far. Obviously that won't continue, but for where they stand right now I don't think they'd be in a worse spot.

Side note, Jack Johnson has been low key great for the Avs this year. Good for old guy.

 

[JH21]

I've been very clear for a long while now that I don't believe either of Byram [injury concerns] or Girard [not good enough] would return the 2C the Avs need. Only Toews was going to do that.

But shoulda, woulda, coulda at this point. The Avs made their bed and if you're aware of history in the slightest you can see where this ship is going.

Can you imagine for just a minute that Sakic pulled a top pair defenseman for two 2nds, won a cup with him, then flipped him right before he turned 30 when his value is sky high for a longer term 2C while letting the kid you drafted 4th OA take his spot next to the best defenseman in the NHL? 4D chess move of the century and extends their contention window and balances their cap allotment even if the first year or two becomes more difficult. Instead we'll get to watch Toews age off into the sunset with the Avs cup contention window for the sake of getting one more shot this year.

The made the wrong decision IMO. Time will tell if I was right.

So wait, just for the record Toews will only have 1 more year of productive hockey then we have to wheel him to the old folks home?

What an insanely stupid post. If any Dman in the league will age well its Toews.

I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. Toews is a top pair defenseman right now, probably a #1 on many teams, and still has a few good years left in him. I believe a good handful of teams would have ponied up big time for him to try to win now. Meanwhile, Byram, with his many uncertainties, is probably more valuable to the Avs than he is around the league.

Then consider the Avs needs and cap space issues. They're not going to win without a real 2C, history has proven that over and over again. You simply cannot afford an extended Toews AND a real 2C with 29/96/8 making as much as they do. Sacrifices have to made somewhere. cMac decided to sacrifice at the 2C position for some reason.

Let me put it this way. I believe the Avs are better now and especially long term with Byram next to Makar and a real 2C behind MacKinnon, than they are with Toews next to Makar and no 2C behind MacKinnon because RyJo and Colton are both 3Cs.

They're basically pulling a redo of last year hoping for different results.

I disagree. There isn't one scenario where we are better without Toews. None.

 

[JH21]

If Toews was gone, it means they have a real 2C and the forward group is significantly better. The hit they take on defense is balanced out by them having proper center depth for the first time since Kadri.

And Toews hasn't exactly been great this year. Jack Johnson has been outplaying him a surprising number of games this season so far. Obviously that won't continue, but for where they stand right now I don't think they'd be in a worse spot.

Side note, Jack Johnson has been low key great for the Avs this year. Good for old guy.

Again, you couldn't be more wrong.

We are 2nd in the league in goals for (without a top 6 winger in Lehkonen) and we are tied for the 4th most points in the league.

Criticize this team all you want but the fact of the matter is we are a top 5 team in the league right now so we are doing something right.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

What 2C would we have traded Toews for? Just wondering.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Bo has been off lately. With Bo’s play and Girard’s issues lately, that Toews contract looks even better.

Basically everyone agrees Toews contract is good.

If the Avs had traded Toews they’d be in really big trouble right now.

Avalanche must have known Girard's issues for a long time. So probably never considered letting go Toews.

 

[chet1926]

Got to be honest Byram needs to go. Not sure sure what he did this offseason but it sure as hell wasn't train properly and get focused to play this season.

He's been slow, taken tons of bad penalties, isn't scoring much, and had countless defensive gaffs.

Guy has tons of potential but isn't even close right now, not sure he's going to figure it out with us. Maybe he needs a change of scenery, not sure but him playing like crap isn't helping the team.

 

[Balthazar]

Got to be honest Byram needs to go.

No he doesn't. He's f***ing 22.

 

[henchman21]

No he doesn't. He's f***ing 22.

I’m just glad we have a new twist on this meme.

 

[Pokecheque]

Avalanche must have known Girard's issues for a long time. So probably never considered letting go Toews.

I’m of the mind that they really didn’t want to deal Toews unless contract talks completely fell apart.

I’m also not so sure they knew G’s rehab stint would happen. It’s gonna make things very complicated this offseason when cap space becomes a huge issue.

 

[Avs9296]

Byram doesn't NEED to go, he's likely to get out of his funk and start playing like a good 4 decent 3 again.

However he absolutely should be available for the right trade. If a team has a younger 2C available and need a D and believe in Bo, you pull that trigger.

Avs chose Toews over Bo.

 

[Ararana]

Avs chose Toews over Bo.

That's all that needs to be said. For both the Avs and Bo's best interests, it's time to split.

We just need to sober up Sammy first.

 

[chet1926]

No he doesn't. He's f***ing 22.

That's fine, then put him in the minors or bench him. Because that's about the level he's playing at.

He needs a wakeup call because his play right now sucks. Getting constantly outplayed by Caleb Jones isn't it.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Byram would have absolutely gotten us a legit 2C, if they had moved him last summer. A full year of suck this year however could impact that value.

Though I would still guess a package of like Byram + our 1st would shake loose some good Centers.

What 2C would we have traded Toews for? Just wondering.

Yeah I don't see many options. UFA rentals tend to get dealt for picks and prospects like 99% of the time.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Byram doesn't NEED to go, he's likely to get out of his funk and start playing like a good 4 decent 3 again.

However he absolutely should be available for the right trade. If a team has a younger 2C available and need a D and believe in Bo, you pull that trigger.

Avs chose Toews over Bo.

To be fair, even in Bo's struggles right now he's still playing like a Top 4 guy. But I think that's perhaps part of the issue.

 

[dahrougem2]

That's fine, then put him in the minors or bench him. Because that's about the level he's playing at.

He needs a wakeup call because his play right now sucks. Getting constantly outplayed by Caleb Jones isn't it.

Well, no, he isn't playing at a minor league level lol.

Byram was fine last night UNTIL the gaffe in overtime. That's the problem with Byram. His mistakes are being exacerbated because of the magnitude of them. He's either taking really bad, lazy penalties or getting beat by guys due to falling asleep on the ice.

However, there's a reason he's the only other defensemen above 20 minutes every night. He, Makar, and Toews are Bednar's three most trusted defensemen.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I’m just glad we have a new twist on this meme.

Time is a flat circle and Big B is only 22!

 

[henchman21]

To be fair, even in Bo's struggles right now he's still playing like a Top 4 guy. But I think that's perhaps part of the issue.

Well, no, he isn't playing at a minor league level lol.

Byram was fine last night UNTIL the gaffe in overtime. That's the problem with Byram. His mistakes are being exacerbated because of the magnitude of them. He's either taking really bad, lazy penalties or getting beat by guys due to falling asleep on the ice.

However, there's a reason he's the only other defensemen above 20 minutes every night. He, Makar, and Toews are Bednar's three most trusted defensemen.

I fall somewhere in the middle on this. Analytically, last night Byram wasn't horrible (though not as good as you'd think based on the pure numbers since they stem from 2 shifts). But he had two major mistakes that ended with pucks in the net. One was simply bad defense, the other was falling asleep and taking a penalty. If he didn't take the penalty, it was likely a goal... but ended up in the net anyway. This to go along with some pure clown coverage in his own zone. His reads and coverage in space are horrific right now. Though he's still defending very well 1v1.

Where I don't think he's playing at a top 4 level is he's simply bad defensively right now and he's not providing enough offense to counter act it. Last year, he was just as bad defensively, but you were getting goals and points out of him. You can accept a defensively flawed guys if they add enough on the other side to counteract the issues. Guys like Ghost, TDA, Barrie, Yandle etc all operated and made careers in this manner. They made mistakes and were not good defensively... but their offense allowed you to accept that. When the offense dries up though, you don't want to deal with it. Right now Byram is both dry offensively and gaffe prone/bad defensively. That is a terrible combination. We know he can slant and be better on both sides of the puck. We haven't seen it together and right now we are seeing bad all around.

On the minutes... if we had G, he'd be getting more than Byram currently, but the depth guys are simply just depth guys. Bednar doesn't have another defensemen to turn to that can play at a high level. JMFJ, Manson, Jones, Malinski... they are fine in limited roles, but you don't want them having 20+ minutes. The more you can keep them to 12-14 the better.

 

[Pokecheque]

If Byram reminds me of anyone right now...it's Martin Skoula.

That guy had the physical tools to be a top four if not top pairing guy too. And really, those few times when Skoula dialed it back and focused mostly on defense, he was effective and consistent. It was when he fancied himself a big playmaker that the shit hit the fan. Terrible reads, bad decisions with the puck, and so many instances where he'd force something that just wasn't there.

Mind you, I think Byram is a shit-ton better, but there's some similarities I see.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. Toews is a top pair defenseman right now, probably a #1 on many teams, and still has a few good years left in him. I believe a good handful of teams would have ponied up big time for him to try to win now. Meanwhile, Byram, with his many uncertainties, is probably more valuable to the Avs than he is around the league.

Then consider the Avs needs and cap space issues. They're not going to win without a real 2C, history has proven that over and over again. You simply cannot afford an extended Toews AND a real 2C with 29/96/8 making as much as they do. Sacrifices have to made somewhere. cMac decided to sacrifice at the 2C position for some reason.

Let me put it this way. I believe the Avs are better now and especially long term with Byram next to Makar and a real 2C behind MacKinnon, than they are with Toews next to Makar and no 2C behind MacKinnon because RyJo and Colton are both 3Cs.

They're basically pulling a redo of last year hoping for different results.

To be fair, I legitimately agree with a lot of your points. I would love to re-purpose the Avs salary from D to 2C. In an ideal world, Bo becomes the quality #2 to play along side Makar, and Toews is moved for an ideal 2C.

But here’s where my disconnect is. You seem to believe that a Toews trade to a team with an ideal 2C exists, and I’m simply finding it difficult to find that team/player combo.

Would a lot of teams have ponied up for Toews, yes, I agree with you, they would have. Would they have parted a 2C for him? That’s where I struggle.
If you’re a team acquiring Toews, you’re likely wanting to win in the short to medium term (like the Avs). So I find it difficult to find a team, that needs a top pairing LD, that’s in win-ish now state, that also is willing to weaken their center core.

On the other hand, Bo offers significantly more flexibility to an acquiring team. He’s younger so he can fit long term to a team still building. He can fit with a team wanting to win because, well, he’s demonstrated he can be that player. He’s cheaper in salary, more cost controlled, and has that draft pedigree allure. If Toews has trade suitors, Bo likely has more.

So again, out of curiosity, who are teams/players that you can envision wanting Toews, at his age, for his salary, and willing to move the 2C that the Avs would actually want? I’m legitimately asking…because I don’t see it. The only scenario I can see is like a swap for Lindholm. Similar ages, contracts, pending UFAs, etc.

 

[Avs9296]

Bowen "Puck Poise" Byram.

 

[MacKaRant]

I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. Toews is a top pair defenseman right now, probably a #1 on many teams, and still has a few good years left in him. I believe a good handful of teams would have ponied up big time for him to try to win now. Meanwhile, Byram, with his many uncertainties, is probably more valuable to the Avs than he is around the league.

We're one of those teams looking to win now.

 

[chet1926]

For those who think Byram is playing fine with occasional lapses, then I'll ask did you project 6 pts in 22 games and pacing out around 25pts for the year? Not mention being near the top if not the top of the league in minor penalties taken?

He is playing well below expectations. This was the year with more ice time that I personally expected him to get to that 35-40ish pts range and establishing himself as the guy right behind 8 and 7 and proving that G was expendable. Instead it's lots of mistakes and no scoring, not exactly what I was expecting.

If the Avs have any hope this year for extended playoffs, they need him and his talent to pick it up dramatically over the last 60ish games.

 

[Balthazar]

For those who think Byram is playing fine with occasional lapses, then I'll ask did you project 6 pts in 22 games and pacing out around 25pts for the year?

Just curious...how many points do you expect from a 2nd pairing dman with no PP time?

 

[Metallo]

Byram is a young and talented player that has had a stop-start career up to now due to injuries and that is still learning the league. He's probably having confidence issues now due to an early season slump.

There smart thing to do right now is to trade him while his value is sub-optimal.