Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII
- Thread starter tigervixxxen
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Cypher
Registered User
- Apr 25, 2006
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I just looked and we currently have one 4th rounder on the roster and it's Andrei Mironov. I may or may not look in the entire NHL to see how many 4th rounders are playing and how many of those are better than Wilson.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
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Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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The value of draft picks drop quickly after the second round. A fourth rounder isn't really worth much more than a fifth/sixth round pick.
I want a high third round pick or better to trade Comeau, if he's at 30+ point pace at trade deadline.
I want a high third round pick or better to trade Comeau, if he's at 30+ point pace at trade deadline.
- Apr 25, 2006
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It's all lottery and showing someone who actually won is no more convincing than trying to sell a scratch off ticket showing the picture of a winner. It's all about odds and they are pretty damn bad. I'm not saying to give away your picks because having a pull on the slot machine is better than having no pull at all but some things are more important than a 4th round pick, like having your coach at least partially happy if you intend to keep him. If you keep Bednar and he likes Comeau, don't trade him for a slot machine pull.
Wilson hasn't shown much for the Avs, that much is true, but he's capable of being more than just 4th line filler. Ideally he'll carve out a solid 3rd line checking/scoring role.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Wilson for a 4th is a steal, the only reason we got him for dirt cheap was because Nashville needed to drop his contract. He hasn't been great so far, but he'll come around. In all likelihood, we'll get more than a 4th for him as a rental in a couple years. And even if we keep him, in most cases a good bottom sixer is far, far more than you could expect to get out of a 4th round pick.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Penguins made last-second offer to get Matt Duchene
What the heck could they have offered? They have nothing.
What the heck could they have offered? They have nothing.
Avs44
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- May 16, 2011
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Not surprised, JR loves Duchene. Saw a link to an article the other day on the Pens board from a Pens writer that said they offered both Sprong, Sheary, and maybe something else at the end. I think the article also said Maatta was not offered, but not sure on that bit.
- Apr 25, 2006
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That would have sucked. Sprong is a good prospect but no package from the Pens could have helped our D.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Sakic got better than that from both Ottawa and Nashville. Realistically, Pittsburgh didn't have what it took to land Duchene.
dahrougem2
Registered User
Why are we ranking leaders now? Do you not realize that Landeskog is still only 24 and MacKinnon 22? This is the 2nd youngest team in the entire league; after the Duchene trade returned Sam Girard into the NHL lineup it may be the youngest. A player like Comeau is valuable unless you're content throwing young kids to the wolves.
Yeah, that's how this team will get better. Trading two-thirds of what has arguably been the best Avs line this season.
This is where I disagree with this board. I would say Makar is untouchable for everything but a undisputed number 1D which is what OEL is. Makar was a high risk fourth overall in a very weak draft year, after watching him play I don’t see a franchise defenseman. I’d be happy to be wrong about that but it’s just how I see it.
To win a cup a number 1D is the most important piece, look at the last 20 years of Stanley cup finalists, Pittsburgh (Crosby and Malkin which is an obvious outlier and shouldn’t be used as a benchmark) and Carolina (Ward beastmode) are the only teams to win it without a great 1D. Looking at the finialists you’ll see Keith, Doughty, Pronger, Chara, Subban/Josi, Lidstrom, McDonough, Letang, Niedermeyer, Vlassic/Burns, etc. Can Makar really reach this level? He’s our best bet to be the guy but I don’t see a franchise guy in him, he could be but it’s very far from likely. Then look at the cup finalists D age, It takes a long time to become a cup caliber D, there is only a few exceptions like Doughty that can be effective in their early twenties. Hell Keith won his first cup at a later age than OEL is right now, and is still going as a 1D at 34 years’ old. Even if Makar his ceiling, we’d have to wait 6 years for him to be good enough defensively to win a cup, that’s just too long in my opinion. OEL is my favourite D in the league so I’m quite biased, but I don’t think we’ve seen his peak yet, remember Lidstrom didn’t win his first Norris until he was 4 years older than OEL currently is. This guy has a lot left in the tank and I would easily trade Makar for him.
This isn’t even considering a defence built around Barrie, Girard, and Makar just won’t work. I can’t recall a defence that small and poor defensively ever winning a cup. Great defenseman but they just don’t go well together.
The last time a number 1 LHD (the bane of Colorado’s existence lately) was available was probably Suter, these guys just don’t become available often. If OEL is truly on the table I say go for it.
To put it into perspective many people here wanted Hanifin (a prospect that probably would have gone 1st overall in the 2017 draft and is much safer than Makar) for Duchene (a player that impacts a game much less than OEL). In fact, the frustration was very evident with GM Francis, many posters here criticized his inability to fix the forward corps in Carolina. This is the same situation however I’d argue Colorado’s defence has been a much bigger problem lately than Carolina’s forwards.
Why on earth would we trade Makar for a guy who most likely won't re-sign here? Give me a break. And who the hell knows how Girard and Makar will translate when it comes to defense. It's also absolutely hilarious someone is bemoaning Barrie and others for being poor defensively but wants to acquire OEl as the solution for LHD, when he has been absolutely horrid in his own end for at least two seasons now, and never was what I'd call a good defender.
Everybody here was frustrated with Francis since he wouldn’t trade for duchenes 1 1/2 year contract. Now everybody’s doing the exact same thing. It’s very hypocritical. Colorado is a nice place to play, the team has pieces to compete in the next five years and he’ll be given all the minutes and responsibilities he could ever want. OEL would most likely sign, do it in the summer if you want to be sure. And OEL is absolutely a 1D that can play defence as well as offence. Again posters are moving goalposts. I would bet Ivan would that if I went through your posts you would defend Duchene saying he’s not really a 40 point player because of a dumpster fire year organizationally, with Arizona it’s the same thing. And I don’t think he’s been as bad as people say. If you don’t think he’s ever been at a 1D level defensively I guess we just disagree. In that case I see why you wouldn’t want him. I would very much argue his case though, I think he’s been good and will only get better with experience. He’s the exact type of defence man that ages well. I think a lot of the difference comes from posters seeing this trade as a 1D for a future 1D, but I just don’t see Makar ever being a 1D.
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I was bemoaning Francis? You can go through my post history all you want, never been a fan of OEL, and the claim he can play D as good as O is patently absurd. He's an absolute sieve defensively. Furthermore, if you can't see the difference between Carolina (has a surplus of D already on the team and can afford to move them, franchise is in danger of relocation, in dire need of any kind of offensive talent ...) and Colorado (just started to build up depth, holes everywhere, coming off the worst non-expansion team season in NHL history..) there's no helping you. Canes are in a situation where they must obtain forward talent in order to survive as a franchise, Avs need to stay the course to build depth and let the kids progress, they must not chase shortcuts again, especially not ones who can bolt in years time.
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
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OEL most value is to a competing team. Trading high end prospects for less than 2 years on his contract is not good player management.
As a comparison, Teams rumoured for Duchene were expected to go deep in the playoffs ie Ott, NSH, PIT, CBJ, CGY, MTL or their survival depends on being competitive ie. NYI, CAR, OTT (applies here as well).
Sakic patiently traded Duchene to acquire more pieces in the rebuild. There is no need for OEL when they already have LHD - Zadorov, Girard and the 2018-1st rounder ready in the coming years. If they want to purse when he’s a UFA, that is their choice, but unlikely he’ll accept less than the Mackinnon $6.35M per deal. Can’t see any deal between the teams or OEL extending.
As a comparison, Teams rumoured for Duchene were expected to go deep in the playoffs ie Ott, NSH, PIT, CBJ, CGY, MTL or their survival depends on being competitive ie. NYI, CAR, OTT (applies here as well).
Sakic patiently traded Duchene to acquire more pieces in the rebuild. There is no need for OEL when they already have LHD - Zadorov, Girard and the 2018-1st rounder ready in the coming years. If they want to purse when he’s a UFA, that is their choice, but unlikely he’ll accept less than the Mackinnon $6.35M per deal. Can’t see any deal between the teams or OEL extending.
He will never be a ufa, he will be signed by whatever team trades for him just like almost every player does. Montreal fans said this of duchene but I’d be extremely surprised if he doesn’t sign in Ottawa as soon as he’s eligible. Sakic May have traded duchene for futures, but that’s because he had to. If Sakic had it his way, Ekholm, an older player than OEL, would have been the centrepiece. It’s also been speculated by bobby Mac that Sakic could flip some of the assets he acquired. I think he would agree the defence as presently constructed still isn’t good enough. That’s just me speculating though. I’m not trying to get into a flame war here, I just disagree our defence can win a cup even if the players develop well. I honestly can’t think of a cup winning defence that had the makeup of players like Barrie, Girard, and makar as the focal point. Maybe I’m forgetting some team, but I cant recall any. As I previously stated to win a cup you need a Keith, a Doughty, or a Chara. I don’t think Makar can get there while I do think OEL can. I guess that’s where I disagree with you guys. Trading for a 26 year old defenceman isn’t going for it in my opinion.
Bubba Thudd
is getting banned
I wouldn't trade for OEL until he was able to sign an extension, and with an agreement for said extension in place.
(not saying I'd trade Makar in that scenario...)
(not saying I'd trade Makar in that scenario...)
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