Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[Bubba Thudd]

If slavin was offered straight up you'd decline?

Yes. Because it would mean the 'Canes see some serious flaws in Slavin.

 

[Patagonia]

If slavin was offered straight up you'd decline?

A more interesting player with health risks would be:

Ekblad

for

Makar +

He's suffered 3 concussions in 2 years. New contract starting this season at $7.5M for 8 Years. A massive commitment for an injury plagued short career. He could be the next Lindros and needs to be carefully monitored.

He seems healthy, but would still make the trade for this type of player. Makar might be good, but not at this level.

 

[Pokecheque]

No one should be untouchable right now. No one. If there is a way to make this team better both in the long term AND short term it should be looked at.

That said, I'm not too keen on trading Makar. I want to see what he can do. The team actually has depth at the defense position for the first time in forever. They shouldn't be messing with that unless the return is substantial.

 

[Pokecheque]

Geez, if Makar doesn't even reach Ekblad level the Avs are screwed.

 

[Patagonia]

Geez, if Makar doesn't even reach Ekblad level the Avs are screwed.

Makar is not expected or any other young player (maybe Dahlin) is generational like Ekblad. Concussion injuries have plagued his career, but Makar needs to be healthy and good. There is a lot of strong pieces being acquired. AVs don't need to make any rash decisions on a trade.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

No one should be untouchable right now. No one. If there is a way to make this team better both in the long term AND short term it should be looked at.

That said, I'm not too keen on trading Makar. I want to see what he can do. The team actually has depth at the defense position for the first time in forever. They shouldn't be messing with that unless the return is substantial.

Speak for yourself. Petryk has got to be the most untouchable player on this continent.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Makar made a commitment to a weaker program when he wasn't the new hotness. It is what it is, but at least it makes it more likely he will just be there one year. He might even be available for Rampage playoffs, I guess.

Figured he’d get used to it because he was drafted by a weaker program

 

[Patagonia]

Figured he’d get used to it because he was drafted by a weaker program

Both teams are getting better

 

[Pokecheque]

Makar is not expected or any other young player (maybe Dahlin) is generational like Ekblad. Concussion injuries have plagued his career, but Makar needs to be healthy and good. There is a lot of strong pieces being acquired. AVs don't need to make any rash decisions on a trade.

Whoa...whoa, whoa, WHOA. Am I misunderstanding here or are you saying Ekblad was considered generational?

Ekblad was a potential generational talent!?!? I'll admit I'm probably the 345th most knowledgeable when it comes to potential draftees in this forum but nothing I've read pegged Aaron Ekblad as a generational talent. If that was the case he would've pulled well ahead of the Sams, who weren't exactly wowing the experts going into draft day. In fact, I don't recall it being clear cut 100% who would go first.

Can we get some other opinions here? Am I wrong?

 

[agentblack]

Whoa...whoa, whoa, WHOA. Am I misunderstanding here or are you saying Ekblad was considered generational?

Ekblad was a potential generational talent!?!? I'll admit I'm probably the 345th most knowledgeable when it comes to potential draftees in this forum but nothing I've read pegged Aaron Ekblad as a generational talent. If that was the case he would've pulled well ahead of the Sams, who weren't exactly wowing the experts going into draft day. In fact, I don't recall it being clear cut 100% who would go first.

Can we get some other opinions here? Am I wrong?

From my own recollection it was never in question who'd go no.1. It was Ekblad's draft. I think 3 and beyond were in contention but at least thats how i remember it.
As far as being "Generational" , i mean thats getting into defining exactly what that means and good luck with that cause your asking for like the Pandora's box of HF board arguments to come out, oh boy. lol. Whats next defining what "Elite" is? What a "Core" is?
its all very abstract and everyone is gonna have a different pov.

 

[Eltuna]

Makar for OEL is insanity.

I’m not against trading for OEL if the deal revolves around Zadorov+, though.

You are against it then since Zadorov + lots is still not enough. No more half measures. I’m really surprised the posters here wouldn’t try everything they could to bring in a #1 LHD, when was the last time Colorado had one? Unless I’m forgetting somebody, I think Suter was the last one available. These guys don’t come around often at all. I also think we need a more defensive oriented coach. My wish list is 1. Tippet (to go along with OEL) 2. Sutter and a distant third of Iron Mike. I know Tippett has a bad reputation all over hfboards but I think he’s so underrated. Should give OEL more incentive to sign as well since I believe they got along great, obviously OEL had great success in his system.

I want a coach that’s going to beat defencive awareness into this team. If I was the GM I’d tell Tippett to take his Arizona system and tighten it up. Give me Jacques Lamaire, boring, squeeze blood out of a rock, hockey.

 

[CobraAcesS]

OEL has the smarts to be a very effective defenseman till his late thirties, Makar will not be on his level for the next 5 years at a minimum. Chances are he never will reach the level OEL already is and will continue to be (My opinion). Makar might be better in 6 years, at which point Mack will have asked for a trade since the team has been awful for his entire career. Eventually you have to go for it and stop the cycle. Not even sure if I’d call this going for it, more like fixing a problem that this team has had for over a decade for the short, medium, and long term. A core of Mack, Rantanen, Landy, Jost and some great depth pieces up front with OEL EJ Trouba and Girard as the D and Varly as the tender is a contender. Let them grow together and I think they win a cup or at least come close one year. OEL was overrated so now people are starting to underate him, guy is an absolute stud.
Makar has too much hype for what he is in my opinion, would be happy to be wrong on that one though.

Ok serious conversation.. I don't have a problem with Makar and Girard being so young due to the possibility that MacK and Landeskog are not good enough to lead a contending team. MacK as a #1C, and with Landeskog possibly slowing down. So while I would trade our 2018 pick if it's outside the top 5 or so for an OEL or McDonagh in the right deal. There are a lot of people who don't even agree with me on that level. I wouldn't move Makar in any deal like that.

The only way Makar ever becomes available (assuming things are going well for him), is if all of the other guys turn out really well, and it's clear we need to do a Ryjo/Jones type of trade.

 

[JoemAvs]

You are against it then since Zadorov + lots is still not enough. No more half measures. I’m really surprised the posters here wouldn’t try everything they could to bring in a #1 LHD, when was the last time Colorado had one? Unless I’m forgetting somebody, I think Suter was the last one available. These guys don’t come around often at all. I also think we need a more defensive oriented coach. My wish list is 1. Tippet (to go along with OEL) 2. Sutter and a distant third of Iron Mike. I know Tippett has a bad reputation all over hfboards but I think he’s so underrated. Should give OEL more incentive to sign as well since I believe they got along great, obviously OEL had great success in his system.

I want a coach that’s going to beat defencive awareness into this team. If I was the GM I’d tell Tippett to take his Arizona system and tighten it up. Give me Jacques Lamaire, boring, squeeze blood out of a rock, hockey.

OEL would be the half measure IMO. Especially because we would have to trade for him (giving up the farm) without assurances of him hanging around (he probably won't).
He also aside from EJ is many years older than the rest of the core we are just on the verge of building and will command a very hefty contract if he is dumb enough to extend with the current Avs(I would bet that he wouldn't even consider it) that will cut heavily into our future flexibility.

Also there is no way the Jets trade Trouba for Barrie+ IMO.
They already have Big Buff on a retirement deal. They need Trouba (or a player similar to him). Not Barrie.

Tippett would also be a pretty bad coach to have around all these young players. As much as I hate Bednar playing guys like Barberio over Zads. Tippett would be way worse in that regard.

This is not a team that is one (or two) big (very unrealistic) move(s) away from being good.
This is a team that is 2-3 years of building for the future away from potentially having the foundation in place to be a really good team for a really long time.

There are worse positions to be in.
Look at Detroit or MTL. Two franchises who won't go anywhere in the next 5+ years.

This is not the time to go all-in at all IMO (which a deal like that would be.). This is the time to stay patient for another year or two. For the first time in the history of our franchise let us be patient.
Hopefully that will pay off.

 

[Balthazar]

If Makar became 75% of what OEL is, that is a huge success.

While I disagree with the bold claim that Makar will be better than OEL, I also disagree with this. If Makar becomes 75% of OEL it won' t be a huge success.

 

[Balthazar]

A more interesting player with health risks would be:

Ekblad

for

Makar +

He's suffered 3 concussions in 2 years. New contract starting this season at $7.5M for 8 Years. A massive commitment for an injury plagued short career. He could be the next Lindros and needs to be carefully monitored.

He seems healthy, but would still make the trade for this type of player. Makar might be good, but not at this level.

I'm not as worried about Ekblad as some people are. Josi had 5 concussions very early in his career and he turned out the be fine. That being said, Makar for Ekblad isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[Eltuna]

OEL would be the half measure IMO. Especially because we would have to trade for him (giving up the farm) without assurances of him hanging around (he probably won't).
He also aside from EJ is many years older than the rest of the core we are just on the verge of building and will command a very hefty contract if he is dumb enough to extend with the current Avs(I would bet that he wouldn't even consider it) that will cut heavily into our future flexibility.

Also there is no way the Jets trade Trouba for Barrie+ IMO.
They already have Big Buff on a retirement deal. They need Trouba (or a player similar to him). Not Barrie.

Tippett would also be a pretty bad coach to have around all these young players. As much as I hate Bednar playing guys like Barberio over Zads. Tippett would be way worse in that regard.

This is not a team that is one (or two) big (very unrealistic) move(s) away from being good.
This is a team that is 2-3 years of building for the future away from potentially having the foundation in place to be a really good team for a really long time.

There are worse positions to be in.
Look at Detroit or MTL. Two franchises who won't go anywhere in the next 5+ years.

This is not the time to go all-in at all IMO (which a deal like that would be.). This is the time to stay patient for another year or two. For the first time in the history of our franchise let us be patient.
Hopefully that will pay off.

OEL was drafted the same time Barrie was. If he’s too old then Barrie’s too old. In which case Girard Makar Meloche Zadorov and Timmins are our best bet to fix the defence, that’s brutal and not good enough for a cup. By the time they’re ready (assuming they even pan out) Mack and Landy will have asked for a trade. Trading for a 26 and a 23 year old defenceman is not going for it, its building. That defence would be here for the next 7 years. If Trouba wants out I don’t know how they could do better unless they go futures, which would be a hard sell for that fanbase I think. Maybe they can though it’s the trade im less sure about tbh. I would even add if needed.

I’m aware Tippett is not this boards first, second, or third choice and that I’ll be alone on that one, I like him more than most I’ll admit.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm not as worried about Ekblad as some people are. Josi had 5 concussions very early in his career and he turned out the be fine. That being said, Makar for Ekblad isn't happening anytime soon.

I’m not concerned either, a player with size and talent like Ekblad if made available should be seriously considered. He’s signed for 8 years, so it would definitely be worth the risks if the Panthers decide to cut costs.

He would easily be the best DMen on the AVs

 

[Eltuna]

Makar is a lot better than ur giving him credit for . The kid will be better that OEL in the very near future kid is a stud

I’ve been wrong many times before while watching a prospect, maybe you’re right and makar becomes the next karlsson. He certainly is talented, and comes across as very smart. It’s not like I hate the guy, far from it. I just think if presented a true 1D in trade for him, you take it. As I don’t think he’s going to get there.

 

[CobraAcesS]

OEL was drafted the same time Barrie was. If he’s too old then Barrie’s too old. In which case Girard Makar Meloche Zadorov and Timmins are our best bet to fix the defence, that’s brutal and not good enough for a cup. By the time they’re ready (assuming they even pan out) Mack and Landy will have asked for a trade. Trading for a 26 and a 23 year old defenceman is not going for it, its building. That defence would be here for the next 7 years. If Trouba wants out I don’t know how they could do better unless they go futures, which would be a hard sell for that fanbase I think. Maybe they can though it’s the trade im less sure about tbh. I would even add if needed.

I’m aware Tippett is not this boards first, second, or third choice and that I’ll be alone on that one, I like him more than most I’ll admit.

The best chance we'd have of a coach with that level of structure is someone who is more of a middle ground type like Trotz (which I wouldn't of said until he coached Washington). This team would be better off with a coach who allowed them some offensive freedom.

Q is my dream coach for this team. They'll be much better off trying to follow Chicago's model IMO.

I mean, Keith is a good comparable for Makar, and Campbell is a good comparable for Girard. Style wise those two are probably the closest you get right now. I think it's also the type of team Sakic wants, and what the fan base wants as well.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

The best chance we'd have of a coach with that level of structure is someone who is more of a middle ground type like Trotz (which I wouldn't of said until he coached Washington). This team would be better off with a coach who allowed them some offensive freedom.

Q is my dream coach for this team. They'll be much better off trying to follow Chicago's model IMO.

Yeah but what are the chances they actually bring him back? My guess would be close to nill.

How can a team even fire a coach who brought you 3 Stanley cups in the last 6 or something years? I understand things change and you need to keep your team competitive but is the coaching the problem there right now?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah but what are the chances they actually bring him back? My guess would be close to nill.

How can a team even fire a coach who brought you 3 Stanley cups in the last 6 or something years? I understand things change and you need to keep your team competitive but is the coaching the problem there right now?

I know it's more of a pipe dream, so your guess is probably right lol, but there has been reports of that front office being divided. If they or Washington don't make noise in the 2018 playoffs it's not impossible either team makes a coaching change. It's always easier than trading franchise players.

 

[Pokecheque]

BTW, I don't think Arizona is even gonna think about trading Ekman-Larsson unless they're positive he won't re-sign in 2019. I'd be beyond shocked if he were dealt this season.

 

[Piestany88]

In your short tenure on these boards (not that it’s any indication of hockey knowledge) you’ve made some VERY bold claims. Kid might be a stud, but better than OEL?

I think it’s funny in which the certainty you can make these claims when talking about prospects who have never stepped foot on NHL ice.[/QUOTE

That is a very bold claim. It could be true, but for the struggles OEL has had over the past couple years... he is still a top defensemen in this league. If Makar became 75% of what OEL is, that is a huge success.

From my limited viewings of Makar this season... I think he might need a second NCAA year. He could take monster leaps forward, but he isn't there yet.[/QUOTEth

That is a very bold claim. It could be true, but for the struggles OEL has had over the past couple years... he is still a top defensemen in this league. If Makar became 75% of what OEL is, that is a huge success.

From my limited viewings of Makar this season... I think he might need a second NCAA year. He could take monster leaps forward, but he isn't

I’ve been wrong many times before while watching a prospect, maybe you’re right and makar becomes the next karlsson. He certainly is talented, and comes across as very smart. It’s not like I hate the guy, far from it. I just think if presented a true 1D in trade for him, you take it. As I don’t think he’s going to get there.

I respect this and OEL is a heck of a player , I just think Sakic wants to grow this young core together . Plus the differences in age and salary . I'd certainly love to trade for him though . Do u see any other package we could put together for him . I'd hate to trade a top 10 from 2018 as well but I suppose it would have to include 1 or the other for sure

 

[SaltySkywalker]

I know it's more of a pipe dream, so your guess is probably right lol, but there has been reports of that front office being divided. If they or Washington don't make noise in the 2018 playoffs it's not impossible either team makes a coaching change. It's always easier than trading franchise players.

Well, for Washington that totally makes sense. They’ve been the Presidents trophy team for potentially 3 years now and have never been able to make that next step. That screams coaching issue to me but Chicago has won 3 cups in recent history. But I get it if their front office is divided. Hard to feel bad for them!

For the record, I doubt Washington does a 3-peat of the best regular season team. I just don’t know how they can’t put it together in the post season after dominating play all season. The regular season team vs post season team phenomenon is interesting.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Well, for Washington that totally makes sense. They’ve been the Presidents trophy team for potentially 3 years now and have never been able to make that next step. That screams coaching issue to me but Chicago has won 3 cups in recent history. But I get it if their front office is divided. Hard to feel bad for them!

For the record, I doubt Washington does a 3-peat of the best regular season team. I just don’t know how they can’t put it together in the post season after dominating play all season. The regular season team vs post season team phenomenon is interesting.

I think their defense has always been too flawed to actually go that far in the playoffs, and while Ovi has done his job, him and Backstrom also haven't been able to lift them past Pit at any point. That's obviously not an easy task by any means. Pits goal tending has always been just a touch better in the playoffs as well.

I don't think it's Trotz fault they haven't gotten to the finals. There is just too many other holes with that team, and you are talking about the second of two really good coaches in BB and Trotz who couldn't bring the cup to town.

This is Trotz 4th year, and the last three are losses to NYR 3-4, loss to Pit 2-4, and loss to Pit 3-4 lol. All of those were in the second round. Two were against the Cup winners. I'd kill for that coach lol.