AVS off-season thread
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
But we haven't "relied" on it, we've used it to supplement our roster with supporting pieces...the same way other teams have used college/euro UFAs, PTOs & minor signings.
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It doesn't matter how a team acquires quality players, only that they get them. If anything, this proves teams should pay more attention to players on waivers instead of avoiding them like the plague. Every single player they've acquired this way has been young and signed to a cheap deal. And they've all had a net-positive effect.
Sometimes the bargain bin of the video store (back when there were video stores) yields a good movie.
- Jan 18, 2016
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Picking up players on waivers is never a bad idea depending on the player. Now you shouldn’t rely on waivers to improve your team in the same way you shouldn’t rely on free agency to improve you’re team. You have to pick your shots, and we’ve done really well on waivers lately. Barbie, Nieto(especially nieto), and Nemeth have all been good additions to the team.
Waivers can be a useful way to improve your team but you just gotta make sure you don’t just claim every player that come across because let’s be real, majority of the players that are going through waivers aren’t worth claiming.
Iceberg
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- May 4, 2002
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It doesn't matter how a team acquires quality players, only that they get them. If anything, this proves teams should pay more attention to players on waivers instead of avoiding them like the plague. Every single player they've acquired this way has been young and signed to a cheap deal. And they've all had a net-positive effect.
Sometimes the bargain bin of the video store (back when there were video stores) yields a good movie.
It's a good thing that we got valuable players, but the fact you need to go that route, that often, shows how terrible our rosters and organizational deph have been.
Well, I won't argue that the team dug itself into a hole with bad drafting/development, but I also think they deserve credit for building some of that organizational depth back up in a short amount of time. To me that's just a GM being resourceful. Nothing Sakic can do to erase the many years of incompetent drafting and development before his time as GM. And if the Golden Knights as well as these four waiver pickups kinda prove, it's that otherwise-smart GMs in this league have ignored a lot of quality talent to their own detriment.
Now, it's a different story when a team is in win-now mode and has to resort to a waiver-wire pickup to get things on track, which is exactly what Minnesota did when they re-acquired Nate Prosser from STL on waivers. But I'm sooooo glad they did that because it led to this awesome moment.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Do you think they would've kept going to that well so much if they didn't get such good results out of it, regardless of the organizational depth?
- Jan 18, 2016
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Who cares
we got free players who are good in their roles, even if they are limited. We needed a good bottom 6 winger and got one and gave up 0 assets. We needed bottom pairing defenseman that are actually NHL caliber and got 2 while giving up 0 assets for them. That’s what you use waivers for and there’s nothing wrong with that, I’m glad that Sakic used waivers to the highest potential he could.
I think the reason waivers are kinda sneered at is because GMs for the most part are just plain dumb. Take, for instance, Kris Russell being waived and clearing in St. Louis only to later be traded to Calgary for a 5th. Why didn't you just get him for free earlier!?!? That was Jay Feaster of course and we know he really didn't know much about waivers to begin with (re: O'Reilly offer sheet) so maybe that's the reason.
Yes, some garbage players (or a grossly overpaid vet) make it onto there a lot of times, but that just means a GM has to be selective when the opportunity arises.
Yes, some garbage players (or a grossly overpaid vet) make it onto there a lot of times, but that just means a GM has to be selective when the opportunity arises.
S3rkie
Registered User
Not specific to your example, bc the Feaster situation was a mess but a lot of times that has to do with the contract count for teams. They'd rather send out a contract instead of putting themselves up against the 50 limit.
Yep, I agree, that's definitely a factor, it's even understandable. I think that's the other thing the Avs did in their favor this past season--they not only had plenty of room under the cap, they weren't in danger of hitting the 50-contract limit. As they continue to build organizational depth, how they handle that limit will also be a criterion on which the GM should be judged.
They've already made errors in this regard the past. Sakic admitted as much when they signed Sami Aittokallio and he bolted for Europe but still counted against the limit, which ended up leaving them a bit hamstrung at the time I believe.
GirardSpinorama
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- Aug 20, 2004
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I hope joe learned his lesson from allowing stastny to leave for nothing and thrusting mack and duchy to top line roles before they were ready. Jost is gonna be a fine player, but no way should he be our second line centre next year. Go get Tavares, blank cheque and then figure the rest out later.
I don't think that's the reason the team regressed. Both of those guys should've been fine in scoring line roles, both were plenty ready and they still had Ryan O'Reilly. And I'm fine with what the team did with Stastny, both in keeping him after the deadline and letting him walk afterwards. It's pretty much everything else they did in that comically bad 2014 offseason that set them on the path to ruin. Every single move they made ended up being a bad one.
Iceberg
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- May 4, 2002
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That's basically what i was refering to and Sakic is responsible for this too, he is been in charge since 2013.
Also, not every team needs to pick up a Barberio or a Nieto to improve their rosters. We, on the other hand, have been playing AHL talent regulary over the years.
- Aug 25, 2006
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Waiver wire can be very useful. Not all players on waivers are bad. Sometimes teams have to put a pretty good player on waiver just because they don't have the room for him and they are stuck sending him down. However if you are out of the first 5-10 teams to put in a claim, waiver wires become more useless because let's face it if 5-10 weaker teams pass on a player, then that player is probably not very good to start with.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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Don't forget Bodnarchuck. Not EVERY waiver pickup has been a revelation. Since then it's been good though.It doesn't matter how a team acquires quality players, only that they get them. If anything, this proves teams should pay more attention to players on waivers instead of avoiding them like the plague. Every single player they've acquired this way has been young and signed to a cheap deal. And they've all had a net-positive effect.
Sometimes the bargain bin of the video store (back when there were video stores) yields a good movie.
Ehhhhh, I'm not in agreement there. You're basically saying Sakic and Roy should've fired Rick Pracey outright when they took over in 2013. When they first took over they promised (I believe) a thorough look at all workings in the organization and that they would take their time in doing so. And that's what I think good management does when it comes to major decisions--a measured approach rather than the haphazard garbage you see guys like Dundon and Mad Mike Milbury pull. There's plenty of stuff I've taken exception to (even now) during Sakic's tenure, but that isn't an item on my list. If you want to blame someone for Rick Pracey you should blame the culture of cronyism that allowed him to ruin multiple drafts outside of 2009. And that blame should lie at the feet of one Pierre Lacroix. Sorry, but it's true.
You're preaching to the choir when you say this team has iced some really bad teams with some really bad players. Obviously there's been plenty of failure, but I just don't agree that plucking quality players off the waiver wire is some kind of indicator of that. If anything, some of those players deserve a legit shot at playing in the NHL if they've been overlooked by one team or another. I mean...that's precisely what waivers are designed to be, right? I don't think being waived automatically means that guy is a lesser tier than players who weren't. If one GM managed to use it to his advantage in a situation where he needed to fill out depth, more power to him. I think there's way more quality there on the wire than any of those other GMs would care to admit. Hell, the Golden Knights appear to be proving that there's more or less an ENTIRE ROSTER'S worth of players that should've gotten better looks.
BTW, y'know who could've used a Barberio this year? Montreal. Maybe that idiot Bergevin shouldn't have waived him.
Oh, I think you can throw Chris Wagner in there too (whom the Avs waived right back to Anaheim). I get it, sometimes you take a chance on a player and he doesn't pan out. I know for a fact there were a few people in the Leafs organization who were really hopeful that Seth Griffith was going to be a diamond in the rough, but alas, he didn't work out. Same goes with Teemu Pulkkinen. Ironically, it took waiving him and then waiving him back to Detroit for Martin Frk to finally get a foothold as an NHLer. Kinda funny how some of these things have worked out.
Incidentally, did a quality player ever come out of the waiver draft when they held it? I seem to remember that being a huge non-event every year. Wonder if they should bring it back with the cap now in place and all.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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I mean, I lived Wagner and wish we had kept him, letting him go was a mistake. He's pretty much an ideal 4C and I wish they could have found a way to keep him around.
Ehhhh he started out really well but overall he didn’t impress me much. Obviously would’ve been a better option than ol’ Johnny Malkin last year but players like him are pretty easy to find all over the league.
And I’m being reminded now that he isn’t in Anaheim anymore, got dealt to the Islanders for Jason Chimera. I totally forgot about that.
Iceberg
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- May 4, 2002
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Who cares
That was my point.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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Regardless, I think they're done with waivers. HOPEFULLY, our days of high waiver priority are over for a while, and it's unlikely that the bottom 10 teams will all choose to pass on the real talent coming through the wire. Especially since the Avs have proven that it can actually be an effective way to quickly build depth.
Cypher
Registered User
I don't see the problem
Peacock - Barrie
Girard - Kondor
Nemeth - Barbie
Alt
Siemens - Meloche
Graves* - Timmins
Geertsen* - Warsofksy
Anderson* - Lindholm*
There's also Boikov and Graham....17 dman to play in the NHL/AHL.
5 of those are still RFAs. Nemeth, Siemens, and Graves will most likely get signed, same can't be said for Geertsen and Graham though. Even if they go that route, I very much doubt they plan on bringing in a dman via UFA/trade now.
Boikov is going back to Russia I believe(Thought I saw something about that last week) and I'd be surprised if they brought back all of Geertson, Graham, and Graves.
